BSG 3 x 16 - Dirty Hands *spoilers*

thelordofcheese

Just finished watching it there, quite a good episode, if you ask me.

Definate filler, but still very interesting filler, it was nice to get a look into how the fleet is working, and how people are coping with having to do all the dirty work of holding the fleet together.

Good to see baltar back again, and his reinvention as messiah of the downtrodden is interesting, and a nice prelude to the trial [which had better be good]. Anyone want to take bets on how he'll weasel his way out of this one?

monkeyfudge

6

Just finished watching it there a few minutes ago too.

Very surprised there wasn't a thread until now.... I guess people have been put off by the last two episodes.

But this was a much better attempt at a stand alone episode. Adding Baltar to the mix is always a recipe for enjoyment.

Some nice effects shots at the beginning too with the Raptor going out of control. There was one pretty cool ship with an anti-gravity system that the Raptor cruised by that was very cool looking.

mewso

7

I think peoples cousins have been in hiding with this episode. Enjoyed it but then I have always considered this show's strengths to be it's character driven stories and this is a nice look behind the scenes. I like the Baltar book idea. Is this his Mein Kampf? Will add spice to his trial.

Bacchus

6

This is the episode we should have got 4 episodes ago. After all the poor filler episodes I was dissapointed when I realised this was another. Surprisingly though, it was an excellent iller episode.
It was great to see how the other half lives and it added a sense of realism to the desperate situation the fleet has found itself in (something I think has been lacking as of late). It did what BSG does best and it asked the tough questions. Are farmers/doctors/mechanics/factory workers etc sons and daughters resigned to following in their parents footstep just because of where they come from. This may not apply so much here in Ireland where we have "free" 3rd level education where anyone who puts their mind to it can study what they want but you can see it in society that the rich get richer while the poor get poorer. Nice to see BSG tackle that issue.
As always, great to see Baltar too. I really liked the bit of insight into his past. Kinda shines a new light on why he was so easily manipulated. He's spent his life trying to be someone he's not, someone better.
One last point, no love quadrangle :-)

It's just a pity that this episode has come off the back of some pretty weak ones. As good as it was I was still aching for some Cylon appearance, Viper dogfight, Baltar trial etc to progress the story. The next few eps better be great.

MisterAnarchy

Not a bad episode overall .
Some interesting background information and history of the colonies.
Thought the episode was very poorly edited ,looked like bits of it had been cut out.
Thats 3 filler episodes in a row .
Some of the characters have become caricatures of themselves lately.
Roslin just seems to keep gushing and smiling while Adama is gruff all the time and giving speeches non stop.
Where have the cylons gone ??
Show needs to buck up big time and finish on a high for season 4.

DS

5 - Average

I really hope they don't go any further with the Roslin/Adama storyline, it's like watching your parents seduce each other.

Volvagia

6

I really enjoyed this episode even though it didn't make much progress in the overall story line. Thought it was very well put together, especially liked the music that was playing in the background when chief pulled the switch and called the strike.

That said i cant wait till we get back to the trial and some more cyclons.

Stark

7

"Go on kid, stick your hand in there" - This has been a message from the Galactica Health and Safety Authority.

MisterAnarchy wrote:

Thought the episode was very poorly edited ,looked like bits of it had been cut out.

Probably for more "bonus episode" crap.

MisterAnarchy wrote:

while Adama is gruff all the time and giving speeches non stop.

It's Season 3 and you've only noticed that now? That was pissing me off about him since the miniseries.

I really enjoyed this episode actually. After suffering through "Hero", "Unfinished business", "Taking a break from all your worries", "The woman king" and "A day in the life", it was good to finally have a decent filler episode.

Bacchus wrote:

One last point, no love quadrangle :-)

Amen to that.

Haruspex

6

Compared to the variable output of past episodes, I actually enjoyed this one. I was a bit apprehensive when I saw Jane Espenson co-wrote the episode but she seems to have been reigned in by her co-writer this time.

I think Baltar raises the level of any episode he's in. I loved the faux northern English (Yorkshire?) accent to denote his Aerelon roots. The upcoming trial should hopefully be something special.

I haven't minded the inward looking nature of some of the episodes in giving us some insight into the other colonies such as Sagittaron in The Woman King. However when you're a long time viewer, you do tend to long for the larger arc episodes rather than these standalones. Starbuck for example feels underdeveloped to me this season with too much emphasis on the soap operatics of her relationship with Apollo. She deserves better.

The next few episodes should see us regain "our BSG" as we lead up to the season finale (which in fairness they do very well).

Stark

7

Haruspex wrote:

I haven't minded the inward looking nature of some of the episodes in giving us some insight into the other colonies such as Sagittaron in The Woman King.

Except they weren't the same Sagittarons as we saw in the previous seasons

FrostyJack

5 - Average

Much better episode than last couple! Though still no Cylons !! Word on the the street the next episode is not a filler !

Ri_Nollaig

much better episode then the previous few, my favourite sci-fi is finally getting better again

Vokes

6

Haruspex wrote:

I think Baltar raises the level of any episode he's in. I loved the faux northern English (Yorkshire?) accent to denote his Aerelon roots. The upcoming trial should hopefully be something special.

I thought that bit was very,very cool indeed. Baltar should be in every episode as he makes it automatically better!

Haruspex wrote:

I haven't minded the inward looking nature of some of the episodes in giving us some insight into the other colonies such as Sagittaron in The Woman King. However when you're a long time viewer, you do tend to long for the larger arc episodes rather than these standalones. Starbuck for example feels underdeveloped to me this season with too much emphasis on the soap operatics of her relationship with Apollo. She deserves better.

Absolutely, herself along with Baltar were always the better characters, i think. In the past a Starbuck-centric episode was always something to look forward to, such as Flesh & Bone in S1. The writers have definitely let a once-great character down this season.

quad_red

6

SofaKing wrote:

In the past a Starbuck-centric episode was always something to look forward to, such as Flesh & Bone in S1. The writers have definitely let a once-great character down this season.

I think they needed to concentrate on other characters for a while. A good chunk of the 'New Caprica' storyline was Starbuck in capitivity and the mind games with Leoben.

Then afterwards, it was herself and Tigh falling apart at the seams. Her devastation at realising that Casey was just another Leoben head****.

And then there was her marraige issues and the affair with Lee.

Starbuck has got shedloads of time this season.

Vokes

6

Oh, I agree she's had loads of screen-time but would say that 90% of that was her affair with Lee (which is pants tbh), and that time has been badly used.

The other 10%...the stuff on New Caprica with Leoben was great! ( i suspect / hope we'll see her back with Leoben toward the end of the season) - but there wasn't enough of it. The episode following Exodus with her and the trials was great too (note: not much Apollo in this ep. either)

Conclusion: more Starbuck episodes / less Starpollo episodes

Stark

7

Get rid of Apollo! I mean really, does he do anything other than look pretty(in a boring way)? They can just make a life sized wax model of him and keep it in the CIC and the show will have lost nothing.

Vokes

6

I think the Apollo character was pretty interesting right up until before the "Year in Baltar's Hair" at the end of S2, when he got married and his balls cut

Different character ever since.

Zapho

4

SofaKing wrote:

I think the Apollo character was pretty interesting right up until before the "Year in Baltar's Hair" at the end of S2, when he got married and his balls cut

Different character ever since.

Totally agree, he doesn't seam to be much of a main character anymore, same goes for Starbuck. I miss the older episodes with them in it being all defiant
and stuff. Heilo (spell) and the chief seem to be taking centre stage at the
moment.

MisterAnarchy

SofaKing wrote:

Conclusion: more Starbuck episodes / less Starpollo episodes

Actually I've had my fill of Starbuck.
She is a very irritating character who behaves like an adolescent punk .
Her character hasnt evolved one bit since this series started she is still a wild spontaneous reckless maniac.
Show needs more of Baltar,Six,Tigh,Cavil and less of Starbuck .

Gonzo_Reporter

7

Watched it there finally and gave it an 8/10. I was going to give it a 9 but there wasnt any shooting. However they did pose a really good question.

Which side did you stand on The Union's or the The President's side?

Honestly i was on the president's and Odamas side, without the refinary adn other key ships working everybody would be dead. They just have to suck it up and do there jobs. It aint pretty but it has to be done. Thankfully they got some help in the end.

I thought it was a good episode, i like these so called 'fillers', without them the series would have been over by now and we'd feel cheated.
we are getting to know the characters well, and getting to know how they think. What Odama threatened to do really showed another darker side of him.
There is no doubt in my mind now what his priorities are.

sioda

8

Loved watching adamas dark side

Baltar again what can we say stunning

Bring on next week

Stark

7

I would have loved it if the President continued to be a bitch and said "screw that, Colonial One people won't be working in the mines" instead of turning around and giving into Chief's demands. It would be cool if she ended up becoming a bit of a Londo character

c0y0te

4

Unions In Space

Dammit - I'm getting really frustrated with this show. I expected more after two weeks of filler only to be greeted with another one.

And can someone explain to me how a prisoner (Baltar) can still get his hands on expensive cigars while in his little cell?

They are stretching it... and need to get this show back on the road to Earth and the storyline.

If you asked me to choose between BSG and Heroes at this point, I'd have to go with Heroes because that show continues to go from strength to strength - every single episode. No fillers. No let up. No problems.

Voted Average:mad:

Vokes

6

The thing with Heroes (which i love) though of course is that it's still in its first season, "the honeymoon period", so everythinng is fresh and exciting.

It'll be interesting to see if its 2nd season can hold up to the quality of BSG S2.

Johnny Storm

4

Mediocre ep at best IMHO.
Speaking as an ol' lad, I remember all that us v. them socialist BS from the first time round. So that bit gave me a wry nostalgic smile. I'm still looking forward to the revolution, comrades!
The scenes of early 20th century industrial squalor on the refinery ship were farcical IMHO. Imagine a technological society that has invented instantaneous intersellar travel and sentient robotic lifeforms but still relies on a lot of people in tin hats to carry around boxes of sand and throw them onto conveyor belts in order to produce its most basic raw material. I didn't think so either.:rolleyes:
Personally I find the Chief and Cally to be fairly boring characters.
As someone posted above I too am sick to death of Starbuck. Kill her quick!
As regards Balthar, the bit about writing a book didn't make much sense either. His refuting his roots does fit in with his grasping chancer personality though.
Roll on the next ep!

Nuttzz

"and the have a plan"...... I really hope so, I liked the ep though more than once i thought it was like a story written by the good people at indymedia

Vokes

6

Johnny Storm wrote:

The scenes of early 20th century industrial squalor on the refinery ship were farcical IMHO. Imagine a technological society that has invented instantaneous intersellar travel and sentient robotic lifeforms but still relies on a lot of people in tin hats to carry around boxes of sand and throw them onto conveyor belts in order to produce its most basic raw material. I didn't think so either.:rolleyes:

Well, presumably they had the Cylons doing this work many years before, so someone else had to do it i guess.

But you're right, you'd think a space-faring civilization could come up with some basic level of automation that could carry item X from point A to point B and lift it onto conveyor belt C

thelordofcheese

7

From what we've seen there isn't a great deal of automation on anything the humans have, maybe it's a throwback from the first cylon war.

I mean if my robot slaves that had been an essential tool for all industry suddenly rose up and started a bloody, human squishing, crusade, i'd be very reluctant to build more robots.

Stark

7

Well the Colonials banned Artificial Intelligence research rather than actual robots. The robot arms you see in car manufacturing plants and the like have no intelligence.

Overheal

9

This was a great episode compared to the drivel we've suffered lately.

what surprises me most is me hitting the nail on the head: a Tyllium shortage! Who can pick em? <<--THIS GUY (check earlier threadz )

At the start

I was convinced they were going to do off Rosalyn right there...but then they go to the title and you know that she lives...how anti-climatic

the key part of this episode that I thought carried it well was that it got back to the fleet as a whole and it did it without being boring: it was nice and dark feeling; slave labor and all that. More importantly it finally tackled one of the minor points raised by Zarek in Colonial Day: what to do with businessmen with no businesses, etc.

The Chief and Baltar had a good scene too:amazing stuff. Baltar was on his best form since ..... ever. One of his best scenes to date imo.

I'm glad they've given some more space to Celix for development too; havent seen any of her since Kobol.

10/10 for bringing BSG back into form; even without the Splodes I've been screaming about for the last few episode-threads

Karl Hungus

4

Personally, I find this show seriously dropping in quality, and I think this episode really pushed my view of it over the edge. The finale had really better be something spectacular to win me back, but this is just tedium at this stage, and the writing is getting extremely shabby.

As with the last few episodes, the only glimmer of intrest is Baltar's scenes, but even now I think they're diluting the character. It's the same with Lost, in my opinion, far too much characterisation just leads to an overall convultedness and lack of direction, aswell as feeling quite unrealistic. There's only so much backstory before it starts to overlap, or contradict, and Baltar works perfectly fine as a character as it is.

To put it another way, it's like in films like Alien where the quick glimpses we see of the title creature is far more effective than focusing on it for a period of time. Backstory as an afterthought can rob decent characters of their very defining features. So to compare it to Lost, where it's another 'Locke' or 'Kate' episode, more characterisation is poured on them, and not only do they never seem to move forward, or grow as characters in the here and now, it just serves to weaken them.

So for the first half of the Season, Baltar was moving forward, and evolving with reguards to the directions things were going, but now he's just seemed to stop, when he should be moving even faster than before.

Aswell as that, the whole plotline about his writings was baffling. The people in the fleet had already lived under his regime, everyone is aware of him being a Cylon colaborator, I find it hard to believe that anyone would even willingly read something he's written, never mind giving it credence! I can't be the only one here who thought that was a little ridiculous?

I'm just hoping that it's just the sign of a rough patch and that the show will come back around soon, but ****ing hell is it going downhill faster than anything I've seen before.

MisterAnarchy

Karl Hungus wrote:

Aswell as that, the whole plotline about his writings was baffling. The people in the fleet had already lived under his regime, everyone is aware of him being a Cylon colaborator, I find it hard to believe that anyone would even willingly read something he's written, never mind giving it credence! I can't be the only one here who thought that was a little ridiculous?

I thought it was ridiculous too.
I dont understand either why Zarek was so worried about Baltars trial .
If anything people would be baying for his blood after all he has done.
I think the drop in quality has alot to do with the new writers writing some episodes like Jane Espenson.
The 2 best writers in my opinion are David Weddle & Bradley Thompson.
These guys need to write more episodes.
Edit
I see they wrote the next episode 'Maelstrom' ,perhaps they are listening to me.

Goodshape

5 - Average

Finally got around to watching this. Just couldn't bring myself to sit down in front of it after the last couple of weeks.

This one was better, but still nothing special. 6/10.

And while I thought Baltar's 'book' was an interesting enough plot-device for the episode, I agree that the support shown towards him was fairly ridiculous. And didn't we have this storyline before, with Zerek? The scourge of the military as popular hero?

Could be interesting to have the Chief in charge of the new union but to be honest I doubt that'll have too much impact on future episodes.

Overheal

9

^ as far as Maelstrom goes; only Katee Sackhoff and Jamie Bamber has a credit for the episode, according to imdb....

And why did nobody tell me Zarek was Apollo in the original series? Trivia for your brain.

About Baltar: remember not everyone might have had the same opinion of him on New Caprica; remember that at least half the fleet supported him back then; and they were not privy to what he had to undergo during the occupation: its likely there was a pocket if doubt among the fleet that he did anything wrong, and was coerced into doing the Cylon's bidding (which, he was).

Not to mention the episode-mentioned general outrage in the fleet over the working conditions: Baltar levered the hell out of it.

Johnny Storm

4

Karl Hungus wrote:

.... far too much characterisation just leads to an overall convultedness and lack of direction, aswell as feeling quite unrealistic. ....

IMHO the problem is not with too much characterisation but that they've simply run out of exciting plots ideas and are just killing time now. Lets hope they can crank it up for the rest of the season.

Goodshape

5 - Average

Overheal wrote:

^ as far as Maelstrom goes; only Katee Sackhoff and Jamie Bamber has a credit for the episode, according to imdb....

Damn it, just remembered a spoiler someone posted a month or so ago.

Next episode could be exciting I guess.

Karl Hungus

4

Johnny Storm wrote:

IMHO the problem is not with too much characterisation but that they've simply run out of exciting plots ideas and are just killing time now. Lets hope they can crank it up for the rest of the season.

Certainly, there's a completely lack of exciting plot ideas, no arguement there, but the over characterization and dilution of the characters is a clear symptom of this.

Stark

7

Overheal wrote:

^ as far as Maelstrom goes; only Katee Sackhoff and Jamie Bamber has a credit for the episode, according to imdb....

n n n n noooooOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

Although, it does mean I know in advance not to waste 42 mins of my life watching it.

Hmm, this girl is credited as "Oracle Yolanda". Bit of alright for an "oracle".

Johnny Storm

4

Stark wrote:

Although, it does mean I know in advance not to waste 42 mins of my life watching it.

Excellent point. Unfortunately, my oracular powers predict that even though I can't stand Starduck anymore I will waste at least 42 mins of my life.....
I just never learn.

Billy Kovachy

I taught it was grand. My main reason for watching at the moment is who are the remaining cyclons in the fleet. I honestly believe one of them will strike probably at the height of the Baltar trail. The cyclon will be a main character either Appollo wife Anastasia Dualla or (you can laugh now) Saul Tigh.

User45701

7

c0y0te wrote:

And can someone explain to me how a prisoner (Baltar) can still get his hands on expensive cigars while in his little cell?

And you now see what they get into Irish prisons?
No really though he was given them as a gift

SofaKing wrote:

The thing with Heroes (which i love) though of course is that it's still in its first season, "the honeymoon period", so everythinng is fresh and exciting.
It'll be interesting to see if its 2nd season can hold up to the quality of BSG S2.

I’d be more interested to see how heroes handles season 3 compared to BSG. I think the only show that can come close BSG for quality would be Dexter or Death Note-ta.
All the other (can’t really call them new anymore its coming up on one year) but of last year’s shows do have some slower episodes and the characters in these other shows are just not as interesting, i watch the other shows to be entertained, I don’t give a **** about the characters in them.
Death note is very good as well. And of course like you said heroes, but BSG is better than them all

Gonzo_Reporter wrote:

Watched it there finally and gave it an 8/10. I was going to give it a 9 but there wasnt any shooting. However they did pose a really good question.
Which side did you stand on The Union's or the The President's side?
Honestly I was on the president's and Odamas side, without the refinary adn other key ships working everybody would be dead. They just have to suck it up and do there jobs. It aint pretty but it has to be done. Thankfully they got some help in the end.
I thought it was a good episode, i like these so called 'fillers', without them the series would have been over by now and we'd feel cheated.
we are getting to know the characters well, and getting to know how they think. What Odama threatened to do really showed another darker side of him.
There is no doubt in my mind now what his priorities are.

I’ll give it an 8 as well id say but I want to read all the comments in case there is something that I didn’t notice
To answer your question I Stand with L Prez and Adama.
It is hard to say in the short run they should have crushed the union and started forced labour, then later fixed the education system, but it was still a very well done episode.
People enjoy BSG so much they can’t help but complain when they get an alright episode because it has been so amazing, Fillers can go either way I’ve seen some 10/10 fillers in other shows and 10/10 fillers in BSG, I was always surprised at what people thought of the episodes in season 2 “Black Market, Skar, Sacrifice” 3 great episodes that are very under rated.

Volvagia wrote:

I really enjoyed this episode even though it didn't make much progress in the overall story line. Thought it was very well put together, especially liked the music that was playing in the background when chief pulled the switch and called the strike.
That said i cant wait till we get back to the trial and some more cyclons.

Every time I watch a new episode or re-watch an old one I fall in love with the BSG music more and more. The season 3 track will be out same time as the DVD around Aug or Oct. I play the BSG music when I’m playing cretin games that have shight music ill mute the in game music and leave the rest of the game sound.

SofaKing wrote:

I thought that bit was very,very cool indeed. Baltar should be in every episode as he makes it automatically better!

Baltar himself has called the show "Baltarstargalactica"

Karl Hungus wrote:

As with the last few episodes, the only glimmer of intrest is Baltar's scenes, but even now I think they're diluting the character. It's the same with Lost, in my opinion, far too much characterisation just leads to an overall convultedness and lack of direction, aswell as feeling quite unrealistic. There's only so much backstory before it starts to overlap, or contradict, and Baltar works perfectly fine as a character as it is.

I have confidence in the BSG writers to keep going, Baltar’s character development is very interesting, the show will just become stagnant if they don’t add things. But the way he reverted to his native tongue was only a min of acting but it was a great scene.

Karl Hungus wrote:

As well as that, the whole plotline about his writings was baffling. The people in the fleet had already lived under his regime, everyone is aware of him being a Cylon collaborator, I find it hard to believe that anyone would even willingly read something he's written, never mind giving it credence! I can't be the only one here who thought that was a little ridiculous?

No, it was amazing. And does everyone know that he collaborated? – Because he has no choice. I thought they all just called him a coward for not fighting the cylons when they came? But I mean how could he fight them?

SofaKing wrote:

Well, presumably they had the Cylons doing this work many years before, so someone else had to do it i guess.
But you're right, you'd think a space-faring civilization could come up with some basic level of automation that could carry item X from point A to point B and lift it onto conveyor belt C

Yes but that automation could be interfered with by a cylon virus and remember that trillium mining ship? What could a virus do to that ship?