Standing capacity on a bus

mikedragon32

If a bus has a seating capacity of 33, what is the maximum number of people that the bus can legally take as standing passengers?

It is a private bus, if that makes any difference.

John R

There is no simple answer, it could be anything from 0 to 100. It would depend on the size and weight of the bus as well as the stated gross weight. It would also have to have proper hand rails for standing passengers.

If it is a short coach or a mini-coach then most likely it is not covered for any standing passengers.

The maximum permitted speed for any bus with standing passengers is 40 MPH.

mikedragon32

It's a mini-coach with no handrails. Don't know the weight, but it's a similar size to the small Imps used by DB, but with coach-style seating.

The capacity notice on it gives a figure of 33 for seated passengers, but no figure for standing passengers.

Victor

mikedragon32 wrote:

It's a mini-coach with no handrails. Don't know the weight, but it's a similar size to the small Imps used by DB, but with coach-style seating.

The capacity notice on it gives a figure of 33 for seated passengers, but no figure for standing passengers.

I would imagine zero.

John R

Victor wrote:

I would imagine zero.

Yes, almost certainly zero based on that description. If it were passed for any standing passengers than it should be on the notice.

mikedragon32

Thanks for the help John & Victor.

Wishbone Ash

mikedragon32 - according to Road Traffic (Construction, Equipment and Use of Vehicles) Regulations 1963 (Section 80) it appears that it is legally permissable to have 8 standing passengers in a 33 seat bus (but I may be misinterpreting the regulations).

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZSI190Y1963.html#ZZSI190Y1963A80

80. (1) A person shall not, subject to the provisions of sub-articles (2) and (3) of this article, cause or permit the number of passengers carried on a vehicle to exceed the number of persons for which passenger accommodation is provided.

(2) If and so long as three or more children under the age of 15 years are being carried on the vehicle, the number of such children shall be deemed to be reduced by one-third for the purposes of calculating the number of passengers carried.

(3) During hours of peak traffic, or in circumstances in which undue hardship would be caused to intending passengers if they were not carried, a greater number of passengers than that permissible under sub-article (1) of this article may be carried on an omnibus, subject to the following limitations:

(a) no additional passengers may be carried by virtue of this sub-article in the upper deck of a double deck omnibus, or in an omnibus having passenger accommodation for less than 15 persons;

(b) no additional passengers may be carried by virtue of this sub-article at any time while the omnibus is exceeding a speed of 40 miles per hour;

(c) the additional number of passengers carried in a single deck omnibus by virtue of this sub-article shall not exceed in number 8, or one-quarter of the passenger accommodation of such omnibus, whichever is the less;

(d) the additional number of passengers carried in the lower deck of a double deck omnibus by virtue of this sub-article shall not exceed in number 8, or one-quarter of the passenger accommodation of such lower deck, whichever is the less.

I was always under the impression that it also depended on the length of the journey. I didn't think it was allowed on long haul journeys and I presume , if seat belts are fitted, standing is not permitted. Victor or John R will probably have a better knowledge of the regulations.

Wishbone Ash

94 passengers are permitted to stand on this bus!

Seth Brundle

If there are no handrails Im sure either H&S or youor insurance would have something to say even if legislation doesn't

_Kaiser_

In my experience, the numer of standing passengers on a Dublin Bus is as many as the driver can squeeze in, regardless of what is on the sign or safe.

shltter

Kaiser2000 wrote:

In my experience, the numer of standing passengers on a Dublin Bus is as many as the driver can squeeze in, regardless of what is on the sign or safe.

It's nice that you managed to squeeze in your little moan about DB even here on a thread that has nothing to do with DB.

All we need now is someone to moan about drivers not letting enough people on to stand just to round things off.

Seth Brundle

IMO Dublin Bus drivers never let enough enough people on to stand!

shltter

kbannon wrote:

IMO Dublin Bus drivers never let enough enough people on to stand!

Thanks this thread is now complete:)

Wishbone Ash

A bit off topic shltter but do DB have a policy regarding how passengers are distributed between upstairs and down? For example, if 30 passengers board an empty bus and all go upstairs, (hypothetical I know), is the driver expected to re allocate them?

( I've only even driven single deckers so the scenario doesn't occur )

spareman

Wishbone Ash wrote:

A bit off topic shltter but do DB have a policy regarding how passengers are distributed between upstairs and down? For example, if 30 passengers board an empty bus and all go upstairs, (hypothetical I know), is the driver expected to re allocate them?

( I've only even driven single deckers so the scenario doesn't occur )

Why? I was doing a private hire recently in a Double deck and all the passengers about 30/40, sat upstairs, I dont understand why the driver would have to re allocate them?

Wishbone Ash

spareman wrote:

Why? I was doing a private hire recently in a Double deck and all the passengers about 30/40, sat upstairs, I dont understand why the driver would have to re allocate them?

I was thinking in terms of the centre of gravity, i.e. would a double decker be less stable going round a corner with all passengers on top?

Call Me Jimmy

spareman wrote:

Why? I was doing a private hire recently in a Double deck and all the passengers about 30/40, sat upstairs, I dont understand why the driver would have to re allocate them?

??? didn't ye know that the people downstairs are fundamental to the support of the people on the upper deck. If everyone goes upstairs then only the driver is downstairs keeping the upper deck from collapsing down onto the lower deck

spareman

Wishbone Ash wrote:

I was thinking in terms of the centre of gravity, i.e. would a double decker be less stable going round a corner with all passengers on top?

Possibly would be less stable but not to a degree to worry about Id say, maybe if they all sat on the right and you turned a sharp corner at speed but even then I still couldn't see any real risk of the bus turning over due to the wieght of the passengers, If there was any danger Im sure tour buses would be non existent.

Wishbone Ash

spareman wrote:

Possibly would be less stable but not to a degree to worry about Id say, maybe if they all sat on the right and you turned a sharp corner at speed but even then I still couldn't see any real risk of the bus turning over due to the wieght of the passengers, If there was any danger Im sure tour buses would be non existent.

Thanks spareman. I suppose tour buses tend to be moving quite slowly.

mikedragon32

Thanks for all the responses guys. I raised the query because as part of our fees where I live, we are provided with a shuttle bus to the Dart station. Lately one of the runs has been done by a mini-bus rather than the usual single-deck bus and it has been stuffed to the gills. I don't take this particular bus often as I'm usually already in work by the time this particular run is done, but the last time I did, there were 13 people standing.

I wanted to check if there were any regulations before having a moan to the managment agents.

As for the question re all the passengers on a double decker being upstairs, afaik, the buses are tested for tolerances when upstairs is full and nobody downstairs. Center of gravity isn't greatly affected by this scenario, as the chassis, engine and everything else is downstairs!

Wishbone Ash

mikedragon32 wrote:

Lately one of the runs has been done by a mini-bus rather than the usual single-deck bus

If you take a look at section (a) quoted in one of my previous posts (no. 7) it appears that a mimibus with 15 seats or less is not permitted to have any standing passengers.

spareman

mikedragon32 wrote:

Thanks for all the responses guys. I raised the query because as part of our fees where I live, we are provided with a shuttle bus to the Dart station. Lately one of the runs has been done by a mini-bus rather than the usual single-deck bus and it has been stuffed to the gills. I don't take this particular bus often as I'm usually already in work by the time this particular run is done, but the last time I did, there were 13 people standing.

I wanted to check if there were any regulations before having a moan to the managment agents.

As for the question re all the passengers on a double decker being upstairs, afaik, the buses are tested for tolerances when upstairs is full and nobody downstairs. Center of gravity isn't greatly affected by this scenario, as the chassis, engine and everything else is downstairs!

I think what we have here is a great example of how private operators try to maximise profits by comprimising the safety of passengers at first you have the luxury 33 seater and everything is rosie, then before you know it 30 people are crammed into a smaller bus.

SickCert

Wishbone Ash wrote:

I was thinking in terms of the centre of gravity, i.e. would a double decker be less stable going round a corner with all passengers on top?

The bottom of the bus is solid steel and gear box, engine and huge axles. The upper is just aluminium and 38 heads! Providing you slow a little for the next corner, youll be OK.

SickCert

Now i work a QBC route so as soon as the saloon looks full i keep going, i dont try to count. Theres always an A,B,C,D or E in my mirror then i get overtaken by a 7B, D or 746.
I dont believe in crowding a bus. Only those who have had a accident or near miss will understand this. Bodies fly unless belted in, bright handrails are just decor. Yes fill the bus, but not to the stage where it takes grandma several minutes to get through the crowds.
If i have a large electrical wheelchair would i carry less standees?