Wii-mote discussion #1 FPS

BlitzKrieg

Seeing as most users have got the wii-mote into their hands I was thinking of starting a weekly discussion of how this new controller can be put through its paces.

So to start it off, we will go with a popular genre thats already caused a bit of a mixed reaction from its implemention on the Wii. The First Person Shooter.

So lets talk about how the wii-mote felt during the current 3 contenders, Red Steel, Far Cry and Call of Duty 3.

I havnt picked up any of these games myself, but I heard Far Cry has the best control. Can anyone say what it does better then the other two? and what do they do wrong?




Also lets talk about how the wii mote can be implemented for first person shooters.

Should we be pushing to emulate the PC experiance, or should developers try and find a unique wii feel for first person shooters, I get the impression that could be what is delaying Metroid corruption.

Everyone take out your wii-motes and see if you can get a feel to how you want to play

Personnally I want to know does the Wii-mote know where the nunchuck is in relation to itself?

Cause for spec ops sort of fps like Ghost Recon and Rainbow six, I find that it could make the game work alot better if the wii-mote can tell when your want the gun at your hip or shoulder by judging where it is according to the nunchuck.

For example. When your holding the two and the nunchuck is higher up then the wii-mote, the gun is at your hip, therefore the sensitivity on the mote can drop allowing for smaller motions by the player to turn the perspective, also buttons can be freed up that would normally be involved with using the gun to rapidly go through inventory or to order squad mates. It could even allow for greater enviroment interaction making it easier for players to find cover etc.

Then when you spot enemies, your either move the wiimote higher then the nunchuck, or lower the nunchuck, which automatically increase the sensitivity on the wii-mote and remap the buttons to focus around shooting/reloading/grenades.

I think in spec op stye games this would make for great duck and shoot gameplay, players would move around rapidly with the gun at the hip and the buttons focusing on your stance/inventory and items etc. then when you find a nice spot, raise the wiimote to bring the gun up and everything quickly remaps to focus on tight gunplay, you move slower, your aim is more accurate and you can quickly change the rate of fire, reload and fire your weapon using the wii-mote.

for multiplayer it would be a more strategic deathmatch.


But of course thats for spec op style games. And even more importantly requires that the wiimote knows where the nunchuck is at all time, is this possible? I thought from some of the games on warioware that it did (bungie pals) but I could be very very wrong. Could simple coding allow the wii-mote to guess where the nunchuck is?

For other style of FPS games.

I assume if far cry really has got the wii mote controls right then run and shoot online fps games like unreal tournament etc wouldnt be a problem at all.

slow moving ones like Deus Ex and Oblivion would also not present a problem I think (and could be easier on the wii then other consoles) due to their slow nature. The question of graphics is a different matter completely.

Retr0gamer

I always thought a goldeneye type approach would work extremely well. You moved arround as in red steel and far cry but the cursor is always centred. However when you want to aim you would hold down A and aim at the screen firing with B. The bounding box should be very wide when aiming. A cursor will also be on screen to show where you are aiming in the bounding box even when not in the aiming mode.

Metroid Prime 3 is using a method similar to red steel except there is a lock on system similar to previous games. Manual aiming won't be used that much.

BlitzKrieg

I always thought a goldeneye type approach would work extremely well. You moved arround as in red steel and far cry but the cursor is always centred. However when you want to aim you would hold down A and aim at the screen firing with B.

That was sort of what I was thinking with the spec op idea, but instead of pressing a button you just change the position of the wii mote in comparison to the nunchuck slightly.

qwertplaywert

metal of honour:vanguard could be the ultimate wii fps

Winters

qwertplaywert wrote:

metal of honour:vanguard could be the ultimate wii fps

how?
I fail to see how your post makes any revelance to the topic in discussion.


The idea of a goldeneye style control where you press A or B etc. to then look around would work very well I believe. Having to always keep pointing at the screen when playing gets a bit tiresome. The ability to move about without having to keep your arm outstretched and pointed at the screen would be a big benefit.

Retr0gamer

I think Metroid Prime 3 will be using the method I described. However that game will use the lock on function a lot more.

As for the rumours about MP3 being delayed because of the controls, it may well be but I've heard from more reliable sources that it's to include online multiplayer options after the success of the MP Hunters online service. I have a feeling Nintendo might make it their online gaming poster child.

ambro25

BlitzKrieg wrote:

Should we be pushing to emulate the PC experience

Working/experimenting on a Glovepie script for PC BF2 atm, and the way the thing is shaping up makes me believe that the way "forward" is kind of a half-way between PC and what has gone so far (CoD3, FarCry, RS).

The difficulty, as I see it, is that Wii developers cannot know precisely how many gamers will be playing on a 30+ inches CRT/LCD, and how many gamers will be playing on a 14 inches CRT - and I believe this (screen size) has a significant impact when contemplating using the Wiimote as a combined POV camera/lightgun.

RE*AC*TOR

Retr0gamer wrote:

I think Metroid Prime 3 will be using the method I described. However that game will use the lock on function a lot more.

As for the rumours about MP3 being delayed because of the controls, it may well be but I've heard from more reliable sources that it's to include online multiplayer options after the success of the MP Hunters online service. I have a feeling Nintendo might make it their online gaming poster child.

Hopefully its expanded beyond simple deathmach format. Its never going to be Halo2 multiplayer, but they would be wise to learn a few things from Bungie.

Retr0gamer

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

Hopefully its expanded beyond simple deathmach format. Its never going to be Halo2 multiplayer, but they would be wise to learn a few things from Bungie.

A proper ending and less samey corridors?

Hellrazer

I actually find the controls in Red Steel qute good although they did take a bit of getting used to mainly due to the sensitivity nature of the wiimote and the fact that its not resting on a flat surface like a pc mouse causes less accuracy.

Lowering the sensitivity right down made the experience a lot better.

Id say that once one developer gets the controls spot on then others will follow suit.

RE*AC*TOR

Retr0gamer wrote:

A proper ending and less samey corridors?

well from the multiplayer.

nothing is to be learned from halo2 single player. nothing.

sprinkles

I found the controls in Far Cry brilliant although I did increase the sensitivity to max (the opposite of what most people seem to be doing).

I don't think the idea of moving the wiimote up and down to signify rest/attack stance would work as I tend to lie back with the wiimote rested on my lap when playing. I could see my arm getting very tired otherwise.

After an hour or so I thought far cry was excellent in terms of control (not so great otherwise). In fact after revisiting COD2 on the PC last night I found myself wanting to play it with the wiimote... it's as close as a comsole will come to bettering the mouse/keyboard.

Red steel was good, almost identical to Far cry but not as accurate, I didn't give it a good run out though so I may be wrong.

Can't wait to get my hands on MP3, even ignoring the online possibilities the control and hopefully presentation will be spot on. Far Cry and RS are very disappointing in the graphics dept.. FC is awful!

ambro25

sprinkles wrote:

In fact after revisiting COD2 on the PC last night I found myself wanting to play it with the wiimote...

Got Bluetooth on yer PC? Get Glovepie and give it a go

BlitzKrieg

Red steel was good, almost identical to Far cry but not as accurate, I didn't give it a good run out though so I may be wrong.

So could the matter with the controls just be a teething problem? Developers just havnt got it spot on yet...but they do have the right idea?

Krusty_Clown

Sorry, can't join in from an fps perspective, as I haven't played one yet on the Wii, but...

Personnally I want to know does the Wii-mote know where the nunchuck is in relation to itself?

The answer is no. The nunchuk contains only a gyroscope, some analog controls, and a couple of buttons.. All data is transferred to the Wii remote, which contains the bluetooth functionality to communicate with the Wii and receive the IR signals for the IR unit. So while the nunchuck can sense movement in the various planes (as in throwing a punch in Wii sports boxing) it doesn't know where it is. However, if you had a game where you were required to keep the Wii remote and Nunchuk together, (Like blocking in boxing) the Wii could detect the movement required when moving the Nunchuk away from the Wii remote.

BlitzKrieg

cheers for that.

sprinkles

ambro25 wrote:

Got Bluetooth on yer PC? Get Glovepie and give it a go

I do and I will!

I think the dev's have it right and they just need to perfect it. It's almost there...

shreddedloops

what is this so called Glovepie?

Krusty_Clown

GlovePie.

christophicus

Krusty_Clown wrote:

Sorry, can't join in from an fps perspective, as I haven't played one yet on the Wii, but...

The answer is no. The nunchuk contains only a gyroscope, some analog controls, and a couple of buttons.. All data is transferred to the Wii remote, which contains the bluetooth functionality to communicate with the Wii and receive the IR signals for the IR unit. So while the nunchuck can sense movement in the various planes (as in throwing a punch in Wii sports boxing) it doesn't know where it is. However, if you had a game where you were required to keep the Wii remote and Nunchuk together, (Like blocking in boxing) the Wii could detect the movement required when moving the Nunchuk away from the Wii remote.

Am ........as far as I know the Wiimotes/nunchuck dont use gyroscopes. What I heard is that they us accelerometers which are completely different.

thelordofcheese

Yeah, your right, the wiimote uses accelerometers not gyroscopes, three of them, i think. The basic differences being that accelerometers are cheaper and they measure acceleration and the pull of gravity, and gyroscopes being mostly used to measure orientation, but not acceleration.

I suppose in terms of the wiimote you could get the same results with gyroscopes, but the wiimote would probably be bigger and cost more.