effects vs. quality gear

fourmations

hi all

this is a bit of an epic question but.........

i was wondering about getting good sound
and what you would approach first.
i only play at home but am curious as much as anything.

I have limited cash, and a favorite guitar with crap pickups

it seems to me you could get better pickups (or a new guitar)
and buy a quality tube amp for lots of dosh
OR
buy a boss gt6 and solve lots of your sound issues
with the ampsims and compressors.

i know the gt6 models the sound
and wont sound as good as a real tube amp and quality pickups
but you get so many sound options for your bucks,

compared to a nice crispy pickups and a good amp
which will supply you a superior sound
with little or no options. (gain or clean)
further options require a modelling amp
so you may as well have a gt6 doing the modelling

any thoughts?

rgds

4

jcoote

well in an ideal world we'd have both but...

i'd go for the GT6/8 and pickups tbh (if you could stretch a bit) because u are just playing at home.

i find that subtle amount of effects like chorus and reverb (which are supplied very nicely on a GT6/8) aid your sound in a home setup situation as much as a good amp does.

now good distortion at low levels is always a problem and a good amp will help u there but for the sake of that i would be happy enough with the GT's distortion models.

Pickups are a definate must even if you only get a bridge/neck (whichever u use most) they will definatly help the dynamics of your tone.

If you plan on goin gigging u can't beat amp distortion imho so mayeb then u could think of something better but a cheap amp with a nice clean channel will do you for now i'd say

feylya

I've got a nice tube amp and a gt-8 along with a selection of reasonable guitars with nice pickups. More often than not, I use the gt-8 through headphones to play because I get exactly the tone I want, when I want. With a tube amp, I can't play at 4am and get the tube saturation I'd like.

So, especially if you're playing at home, a gt-8 would be a good call. New pickups are not that expensive. Check the resources threads for really really cheap DiMarzio pickups.

TelePaul

What's your guitar? If the pick-ups are crap, am i right to assume the rest of it is too? I wouldn't touch effects until you have a nice guitar and a ncie amp; a crap sound with tons of distortion, delay or chorus is still a crap sound.

punchdrunk

much as i love pedals,and i mean really really love them!
..ya gotta start with a good plank and a decent amp

fourmations

hi all,

thanks for your comments:


telepaul: my fave guitar is a 1989 squier hm3 (a relic!!)
(which is an ibanez s copy, it is one of the best squiers ever made)
but I have gotten over the "it's a squier" syndrome, after 15 yrs!
I have never played anything like it, the neck is superb
and i would gladly part with a grand for the neck on a more retro design
without the pointy headstock to boot (its bc rich sharp!)

I emailed bill lawrence six weeks ago but got no reply
I fancied a full BL setup across the h-s-h pup config,

i just bought a new guitar with duncan/ibanez jobs and they
are better than the squier pups by far, so i can only
salivate at what these legendary BL's may bring to my fave
axe, if i get a reply that is!!

I have a gt-6 on loan for the last few weeks
and although you get bogged down in setting up patches
i like it a lot and it is certainly ample for the home user

i have dialled in a few of my favourite sounds
quite sucessfully (based on presets, with tampering)

rgds

4

BostonB

I think it depends a lot what kinda sound and music you are playing. If you are just using it for practising at home, and play a variety of styles then I would go with decent pickups and the effects.

However if you play mainly one kinda style and are seeking one kinda classic sound to play blues, jass or country etc. Then a decent guitar and tube amp can't be simulated IMO. Especially if you are gigging or even rehearsing with a band.

Eoin Madsen

Honestly, from my experience as a sound engineer, in the bigger picture the guitar amp is actually the thing that makes the most difference to the fundamental sound you're going for. For example, my ****ty mex strat sounds better through a Marshall 1959 than a Les Paul Custom through a poxy solidstate Crate. No contest whatsoever, no matter what I played - beefy rhythm, soaring lead, sparkling clean sound. Hell, with the 1959 the mex strat even seems to sustain longer. The improvement from cheap guitar to good guitar with the same amp is considerable, but not on the same scale at all.

And as someone already said, a crap sound with effects is still a crap sound. Ditto for the sound "options". Believe me, one great tone will sound nice doing anything. Having 10 different sh*te tones really won't do you a whole lot of good. I'd put that money into a small valve amp. And get something classic, because 95% of modern valve amps are so hybridised that the tonal advantages of the valves are practically lost tbh.

fourmations

hi all

eoin: i had kinda figured that but am glad to hear it from
someone who knows their stuff

I can only compare it to the good ol days when i lived with
a (cassette) walkman in my ears,
the walkman improved hugely with better headphones,
and i continued to get better and better headphones
with the same walkman unit, with beter an better results,
which i suppose you can apply to the guitar amp thing.

rgds

4

BostonB

What are the classic small tube amps?

Karl Hungus

I'd definetly say that you couldn't go wrong with the GT6.

Most of the time, when I use my Pod XT Live, I'm just using it on it's own with headphones, or through the PC. Nothing wrong with that, and there's no absolutely need to have a tube amp to run it with. A good unit like the GT6 or 8, or Pod XT would be an excellent piece of gear to own.

Pickups obviously make a huge contribution to the overall sound, so you might want to check that out first.

But once you've done that, then I see no problem with getting a GT6. It's a quality unit, so you won't have to compromise between crap gear or effects, it'll do both the amp end and effects end very well. You're not going to have a crap sound if you go that route.

Voodu Child

Eoin Madsen wrote:

And get something classic, because 95% of modern valve amps are so hybridised that the tonal advantages of the valves are practically lost tbh.

Careful nobody takes you literally with the 95% figure there Eoin - I doubt youre referring to the likes of Mesa, Soldano, Cornford, THD, ENGL, H&K, Diezel, Budda, yadda yadda....

Anyway, for the OP, just check that you can afford to crank a valve amp before you get it (ie flatmates/kids/nextdoor neighbours etc). If youve never played one before, you might be surprised how loud even a 5 watt valve amp is, and amps that small are pretty thin on the ground.

Bratach Bán

BostonB wrote:

What are the classic small tube amps?

The absolute classics are the original Fender Champion 600 (from the 50's) which was 5 watts into a six inch speaker, and the Gibson GA-5 Les Paul Junior, which was 5 watts into either a seven inch oval, or ten inch Jensen, speaker. The Fender Champ Silverfaces (from the seventies and eighties) are also considered classic by some.

The modern day equivalent of all these is the Epi Valve Junior - the amp that does everything well, and blues excellently.

With regard to the original poster's question - upgrade the pick-ups, buy a small valve amp, and spend whatever you can on a couple of all-round pedals - the Boss Super-Overdrive being one of them if you want to use a small valve amp.

TelePaul

Bratach B&#225 wrote: »

Boss Super-Overdrive being one of them if you want to use a small valve amp.

Ah the SD 1 is awesome. Goes with pretty much everything.

If you must go with a floor processor - even though I think a nice guitar and amp will stand you better - go with the GT6. The durability of line 6 products are questionable at best, based on what I've heard.

Johnny Storm

Bratach B&#225 wrote: »

...The modern day equivalent of all these is the Epi Valve Junior - the amp that does everything well, and blues excellently....

I have one and its great. It has zero features and really brings out the sound of your guit. I have no idea how it compares to a vintage amp.
Very good value too.
As noted above its VERY loud. Forget about power amp saturation unless you have no neighbours. I currently use it turned down low with a Boss Blues Driver pedal in front of it. Sounds good to me. Any similar overdrive pedal (eg Bad Monkey) should work fine.

Owen

fourmations wrote:

telepaul: my fave guitar is a 1989 squier hm3

I have one of them somewhere too! They were a great guitar. To echo what the other posters are telling you, there's no substitute for a decent guitar, and a decent amp. I don't have an amp as such, I've a GT-Pro, into a power amp, into a Mesa Boog Rectifier 1x12 cab. But on the odd night when I snap a string, I plug in an Epiphone Les Paul I bring to gigs ... and the sound is chronic compared to the Ibanez.

I suppose it's like building a house, if you don't have a decent foundation, you're not going to end up with something pretty.

Paladin

I would advise start at the start and work from there.
The start of any guitar sound is a guitar. I play my guitar on different amps, into a recorder, headphones, unplugged etc. You need a guitar thats nice to play just to enjoy the action, the feel of the neck and so on.

After that a 'decent' amp is more important than a valve amp because of the financial savings. Until I have more money than sense I will never waste my hard earned cash on a valve amp. I bought a Laney solid state head and hooked it up to my 4X12 celestion home-made cabs, bought a GT-8 and never looked back. Never will either. I cant have an AC-30 blasting at full volume (and if you dont blast it at full volume whats the bloody point of a valve amp at all??!!?) and neither can most bedroom players.
For a gig I prefer the versatility of a GT-8 into clean amplification anyway.

Anyway thats my opinion as to the effects Vs Gear Q.