Planned Aer Lingus strike is called off

FlutterinBantam

Hmmmm seems like things getting a bit heated out in Dublin Airport with EI forecasting disruption for nxt Wed.Thu,Fri.

Looks like we are back where we were 3 years ago before W Walshe decided to resign.

The way I see it is that the unions must accept, that under current economic strictures EI needs to re work pay/conditions to survive in the airline market in which it has pitched itself.

The old days of Govt. backing and high fares are long gone and the winds of reality have blown thru Aer Lingus.

I cannot see much future for the airline if attitudes do not change but would see a good future albeit with reduced perks if people see the writing on the wall..or the bottom line!! and tackle the problem in a pragmatic way.

cooperguy

Oh please somebody out there reassure me the aerlingus flight from Shannon next friday that I have booked for months isnt goin to be cancelled and leave me stuck in the airport!

And your right by the way the employees have to accept the realities of working in an airline company at the moment.

Mr E

My parents are flying out next Wednesday to Malaga. It was mentioned on the radio this morning that all change fees (i.e. €35 per person per leg - €140 in total) would be waived for next Wed/Thu/Fri if people wanted to change.

They asked me to see if I could change to this coming Sunday instead. So great, I thought. I'd log in this morning to change the booking, no problem. However on the website, there was no mention of the change waiver -- so I called them up.

Apparently the strike isn't confirmed, and an official announcement will be made on Monday. If you try and change your booking before Monday, the change fee will still apply. So beware !!!

eamonnq

I have booked a hotel in Eurodisney for 3 days, flying out Wednesday (aerlingus), so changing days to Sunday etc. will be of no use to me?

Any suggestions?


Thanks

maryjane1

we fly out to eurodisney monday and we return friday night. ive been onto them and they wont know anything for definite until monday morning at 7.30 when their office opens (no good to me because well be on our way by then) ryanair flights are still resonable enough if its possible to cancel your flight and book with them. which it could be because she also told me that even if the flights we reschedule are more expensive we eont have to pay the extra so they may refund money too.

i did think about changing our flight for saturday but she said there is no guarantee of that either.

FlutterinBantam

If I was to stick my neck out I would say that something will be worked on before Wed to sort this out.

My only reason is that both sides know that they are backed into a corner and some formula will have to be worked on to allow wriggle room.

Thats my hunch... hope for the sake of people caught up in it that I am right.

eamonnq

The way I see it at the moment is that I can change my flight to Tuesday (pay the charge for changing as the charge is still applied until they are definite the strike is going ahead), this will cost me 200.00 (4 x 50.00). I then have to book another night at a different hotel (hotel we are staying in has no availablility for Tuesday night) this will cost €120.00.

Or I can wait until Monday and hope that something is sorted out and stick to my original plans, but then I probably risk not being able to get a flight on Tuesday.

We are also scheduled to fly back on Saturday and don't know what to do about that.

I could book Ryanair (and land at Beauvais) but I presume that Aer Lingus will not refund me if the strike does not go ahead, and the flight that I am already booked on goes ahead.

stevo86

im goin to New York this friday the 2nd of march, flying with aer lingus of course, and i heard there is talk of the workers going on strike this thursday, so im wondering wat will be the situation if this strike does go ahead, will i have to book a new flight with a different airline?? would appreciate some advice on this matter

Victor

I think you need to talk to Aer Lingus and watch their website and the news for developments.

FlutterinBantam

FlutterinBantam wrote:

If I was to stick my neck out I would say that something will be worked on before Wed to sort this out.

My only reason is that both sides know that they are backed into a corner and some formula will have to be worked on to allow wriggle room.

Thats my hunch... hope for the sake of people caught up in it that I am right.

Heh heh... Even if I say so myself.... Absolutely spot on Mr. Bantam!!!

eamonnq

Whew!

Fly out Wednesday, back on Saturday. They can strike all they want after that!!!

stevo86

well im goin to new york on friday and back on tuesday, so if it happens just on sunday as announced, then im a happy camper!!!

Victor

http://rte.ie/news/2007/0227/aerlingus.html

Planned Aer Lingus strike is called off
watch listen Tuesday, 27 February 2007 19:52

The planned strike action at Aer Lingus has been called off after the company agreed to postpone its cost-cutting plan pending an investigation of the dispute by the Labour Court.

Aer Lingus said the outcome of today's exploratory talks would now lead to a 'short sharp' consultation process on all the issues.

Earlier, Chief Executive of the airline Dermot Mannion, said its agenda for change had been clear for some time and the company now needed to move forward as a matter of extreme urgency.
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However the Labour Court is to issue a recommendation on Monday after a full hearing of the dispute on Thursday and Friday.

SIPTU said it had called off Monday's 24 hour strike because the company had agreed to hold off on introducing new terms and conditions for existing staff.

Saruman

Off to Chicago for three weeks in April with them. I hope it does not come up again or i wil be very unhappy.

Thargy

The sheep-like mentality of the Irish public never ceases to amaze me. The 'Meeja' tells them what to think - and they swallow it willingly. And regurgitate it - verbatim - when poked with a stick.

And your right by the way the employees have to accept the realities of working in an airline company at the moment.

See, this is what I mean. Just a total cop out comment. A cheap shot from a mindless twit who hasn't the brain cells to rub together and come up with an original thought.

The facts are simple - and more to do with the 'realities' of enlightened industrial relations practices than some half digested editorial on the 'realities of working in an airline company (sic)'.
What Aer Lingus management are pulling would be illegal if they were in the property market. They made a deal, signed on the dotted line only 3 months ago, and now they want to bin it? If you were selling them your house, how would you react? I bet you'd sue their sorry a55e5!

Any management - whatever the business - which makes a deal one day and unilaterally breaks it the next can expect exactly what happened. That is REALITY my friend.

I'm no fan of SIPTU, but in their position I'd do exactly the same thing - and so would you, so quit bitchin'.

FlutterinBantam

You coulda fooled me horse.

Any management who sees a publicly owned company company "flying into the cloud lined with stone" and does not try to take corrective measures is to me at best incompetent.

As I see it EI has two options at the present moment

1.. Rework present pay/conditions of workers and management into realistic economic situations which reflect to current status of the company and its future capital requirements especially fleet expansion.

2.. Totter along jumping from one crisis to another dying the death of a thousand cuts and eventually going to the wall or being taken over by a more efficient and dynamic operator.


Thats about the size of it .

Calina

Thargy is on holiday for a week.

Macy

FlutterinBantam wrote:

As I see it EI has two options at the present moment

Whatever, the Management has to stick to agreed procedures when making any change, which is why they had to back down in the labour court. Aer Lingus successfully spun it about what they were trying to do, when the crux of the strike threat was how they were going about doing it.

From a Union point of view, there is no point going in to make new agreements when the Management are breaking existing ones. That is about the size of it.

FlutterinBantam

Its gotta happen eventually...today..tomorrow..next month ..next year.

The inevitable cannot be put off. Its either change or sink.

The people ,the customers,who had their plans screwed up last week, won't put up with this for ever. The shareholders won't either.

Thats about the size of it

shltter

FlutterinBantam wrote:

Its gotta happen eventually...today..tomorrow..next month ..next year.

The inevitable cannot be put off. Its either change or sink.

The people ,the customers,who had their plans screwed up last week, won't put up with this for ever. The shareholders won't either.

Thats about the size of it

What is the point in having agreements if the management can bin them whenever they feel like it.


What has dramatically changed since the management signed the last agreements with the union a few months ago.

Frankly talk about change or sink is nonsense the airline is in a healthy state and there has been no change in the external conditions that warrant ripping up current agreements without any negotiation.

As far as I can see the management want to try and prove that they are as tough as O'leary and have picked a fight to try and put manners on the unions early.

PhoenixRising

How's about Aer Lingus management do what they said they'd do post-IPO?

What was the reason given for the sell off - to generate funds to buy airplanes and expand the airline. Well the IPO has happened, Aer Lingus now has well in excess of €600m just sitting in the bank doing nothing. Where are the airplane orders and new routes Mr. Mannion? How about using some of that money as you said you would and grow the airline, and stop picking petty fights with the staff to save a few quid..

FlutterinBantam

I have no intention of trying to defend Aer Lingus management in this issue,what concerns me is reality.
Somebody asked what had changed in the last few months,and of course the answer is "nothing" and "everything"

Everything in so far as the company is now answerable to shareholders who naturally want their investment to do well .Everything in so far as the company has come out from under the shelter of semi-state status and must pay its way in the commercial world.

Nothing in so far of major cost reduction processes,which would bring the cost base down to level sustainable going forward.
Yes there has been a lot of rationalisation in this company in the last few years,but the report that some unskilled workers managed to rack up over 100k pa would give cause for concern.

What would concern me most though is the constant unrest which the travelling public have foisted on them ,a small microcasm we have seen on this thread, will gradually erode public confidence and allow a once good performer to sink without trace.

dowlingm

PhoenixRising - one A333 and A332 imminent and a couple of A320s too. Airbus aren't Toyota you know, you can't just head down to the lot and pick one out (unless you're looking for an A345 in which case they could probably find a used one for you).

PhoenixRising

dowlingm wrote:

PhoenixRising - one A333 and A332 imminent and a couple of A320s too. Airbus aren't Toyota you know, you can't just head down to the lot and pick one out (unless you're looking for an A345 in which case they could probably find a used one for you).

I'm well aware of that. What are they doing with the new airplanes? Adding an extra rotation or two to the existing routes....how imaginative. Mannion promised airplane purchases and new routes with the cash generated. The cash is still in the bank and so far he has done nada.

FlutterinBantam

Ahhh ..... Just heard the outcome of the Labour Court reccie on the Aer Lingus dispute....putting on a management consultants hat I would say Ei management are quite satisfied with the outcome.

OK ... a slap over the wrist for breaking existing agreements,but agreement in the fact that changes need to be undergone urgently to address the work practices situation/the holiday/bank holiday/shift arrangements.

There will have to be a payoff of course and that is right,but all in all there seemed to be an endorsement of the company's assertion that work practices need to addressed, and entitlements adjusted to allow the company plan the future going forward and ensure the long term viability of a transport concern in a highly competitive environment.

Interesting times ahead:)

Thargy

FlutterinBantam wrote:

Its gotta happen eventually...today..tomorrow..next month ..next year.

The inevitable cannot be put off. Its either change or sink.

The people ,the customers,who had their plans screwed up last week, won't put up with this for ever. The shareholders won't either.

Thats about the size of it

I'm back.

As I said last week - the whole fiasco was a scenario engineered by a swaggering management team.

People had their plans screwed up? Who's fault was that? The strike threat would never have arisen if Aer Lingus management had MANAGED their issues maturely, instead of acting like bullyboys.

The end result was pretty much as these things always work out when dealt with correctly - a mutual compromise. So all the management posturing, and all the bombast by Fluthering Bantam - was, in the end, just a lot of hot air. Deflated by the Labour Court.

Yawn.......

FlutterinBantam

Wouldn't quite go along with that view of things.

Had management not taken a "heads up" attitude and brought the matter to a head,we would still have the nearderthals out at Dublin Airport,blocking change and holding the travelling public to ransom,oblivious of the fact that the whole scenario has changed since pvtisation.

In the meantime the company would be bleeding money and would have to look on as leaner more flexible outfits took advantage of the deregulation surely down the track,while they wrangled,threathened,stalled,argued the toss over every minor change proposed.

ALL THIS!! against a background of 1000 job losses in Munster.

In my opinion Aer Lingus management are quite happy with the outcome ,as they have got some action instead of stalling,from a workforce that is rapidly losing any public sympathy,and thankfully cannot bring the country to a halt as the once could,and did, with monotonous regularity.

Thargy

FlutterinBantam wrote:

In the meantime the company would be bleeding money

Please provide evidence of how 'Aer Lingus is bleeding money'.
It is a highly profitable company with cash reserves of over 900 million euro in the bank.

and would have to look on as leaner more flexible outfits took advantage of the deregulation surely down the track,while they wrangled,threathened,stalled,argued the toss over every minor change proposed.

Thats mere speculation.
Please provide evidence that this will happen.

ALL THIS!! against a background of 1000 job losses in Munster.

Yes, this is an example of how the Irish public are being fooled into believing that globalisation is good for them. The crunch is coming. Irish labour will never be as cheap as the latest 3rd world slave labour in a globalised marketplace. I believe the Irish people will finally wake up to this reality and the change will come through up-skilling, NOT by a race to the bottom. Sweat shop employers are not welcome here and should be shown the door.

In my opinion Aer Lingus management are quite happy with the outcome ,as they have got some action instead of stalling,from a workforce that is rapidly losing any public sympathy,and thankfully cannot bring the country to a halt as the once could,and did, with monotonous regularity.

Workers on strike rarely get support from the public, except perhaps in France where social cohesion means a bit more. No union should plan its strategy exclusively on what the public thinks.
Aer Lingus management have been forced to negotiate. Thats the crux of the matter. The outcome is yet to be seen.

FlutterinBantam

Aer lingus management got the result they wanted.Action.

I believe there are discussions starting next Monday, otherwise nothing would have happened till almost Christmas.

Time is of the essence here,Aer Lingus knows that,the unions will find out fairly shortly in my opinion.Sooner or later the penny will drop. Those concerned will eventually realise that the old days of procrastination/stalling/endlessly discussing issues that have to be solved and Govt. interference kicking in.
No sensible person condones sweat shop labour,Aer lingus is far far removed from that, as any sensible person will agree.

the Unions will try to get as much as they can for their members,and rightly so,but doing a King Canute on the issues will only have one result.

The days of the whistle symphonies at DUB are drawing to a close;)

Thargy

FlutterinBantam wrote:

I believe there are discussions starting next Monday, otherwise nothing would have happened till almost Christmas.

Recent history proves you wrong. You're out of touch.

Those concerned will eventually realise that the old days of procrastination/stalling/endlessly discussing issues that have to be solved and Govt. interference kicking in.

Aer Lingus staff numbers dropped from 7,500 in year 2000 to 3,500 today. All voluntary. Zero Government 'interference'.
Cost savings of hundreds of millions were implemented between 2001 and 2005 - with staff agreement. Zero Government 'interference'.
Before the flotation just 5 months ago, millions more in working conditions concessions and costs were given up by Aer Lingus staff. Zero Government 'interference'
The very fact of their co-operation with the flotation created a war chest of over 900 million euro for the company and hundreds of millions of euro for the national exchequer. Zero Government 'interference'

Aer Lingus is highly profitable. So much so that Mr.O'Leary is falling over himself to buy it at any cost.

These are well documented facts.

Your depiction of a sick and faltering company with a backward workforce is thus either amusingly misinformed, or simple malicious misrepresentation.
I suspect the latter.

No sensible person condones sweat shop labour,Aer lingus is far far removed from that, as any sensible person will agree.

Yes I do agree wholeheartedly. That is thanks to Unionisation. And long may it remain so. Leave the sweatshops to the Ryanairs of this world.

FlutterinBantam

Dublin Airport ,in my opinion is the last bastion of the Unions.

However things are changing.Aer Lingus ,formerly a semi-state highly unionised company is now on the stockmarket and responsible to its shareholders.

In the old days the workers enjoyed the security of ,lack of real competition,job security,and the knowledge that the State would/could bale them out in bad times.

EU competition laws changes all that,suddenly leaner meaner competitors could offer prices that EI could only dream about,suddenly they had to become competitive.

Aer Lingus has done many things since 2001
re positioned itself as a lowcost carrier
got out of a dominant handling situation at Dublin airport,to the extent that all it handles there is its own operations.
It also got rid of its own staff at LHR.
It cut out catering on non-transatlantic flights .

Is it any wonder then that the staff were reduced?

Aer Lingus is an excellent brand/excellent carrier...but...a small but vociferous band of hard core activists seem to think that it can afford to sustain the cost base which it currently has.

Most informed economists and consultants ,including myself dont.