Trinity News vs The Record

Please fill me in on the rivalry/history, here. From what I understand, people are generally of the opinion that Trinity News is better than The Record...

Are they both entirely student-run? Like a club or society might be?

Time Magazine

Trinity News is better, older and has a decidedly more-handsome alumni .

To explain their independence, it helps to go into the College's method for organising student activities. College acknowledges and funds five so-called capitated bodies:

1. CSC - Central Societies Committee - the parent body for the one hundred or so recognised student societies
2. Publications - "Pubs - the parent body for the seven or so student publications, including the Trinity News
3. The Students' Union - the sole body for representing the undergradate body. Publishes the Record.
4. Graduate Students' Union - the SU for postgrads
5. DUCAC - Dublin University Central Athletics Committee - the parent body for the fifty or so sports clubs

These elect representatives to the Capitation Committee who decide who gets what money-wise. Less interesting than you might think, they all but give the same proportion each year to each body.

TN was founded about 50 years ago and is Ireland's oldest student newspaper. It has a team of a about twenty section editors, most of whom have a page or two to deal with each. The Publications committee appoints an overall Editor each year and he or she is paid to do the job.

The UR works in a similar way to TN, but was founded in the early '90s if I'm not mistaken, though I may be wrong in that regard. It is the official newspaper of the Union and is edited by the Union's Deputy President.

TN is regarded as the better paper overall and this is reflected in its performance in student publication awards, where of late is has swooped up several gongs. In contrast to this, the UR is generally nominated for maybe one or two.

Jager Man

I think the fact that somebody is chosen by a 'board' or group of people, as is the case in TN, has shown to be a far better way of procuring an editor. The current situation where a person who, generally speaking, is more popular is made the editor of a paper is not very bright.

Take the example of Tom Dillon vs. Andrew Byrne. Andrew Byrne lost the election for deputy president and went on to be the editor of TN. That year and since then TN has far surpassed the record, it also, if I'm not mistaken, won student newspaper of the year!? No editor of a national newspaper is ever elected by 'the people.'

I wish not to debase the work that many students put into the record because often I hear how its based around 'hackery' and who's friends with who. This is not true, what is true is that the election process, in my time in college, has not produced a competent or catching editor.

I know the deputy president has other duties, but maybe a similar co-op method for the editor of the record would be more cause worthy?

Time Magazine

Jager Man wrote:

Take the example of Tom Dillon vs. Andrew Byrne. Andrew Byrne lost the election for deputy president and went on to be the editor of TN. That year and since then TN has far surpassed the record, it also, if I'm not mistaken, won student newspaper of the year!?

You mean Andrew Payne. He won Editor of the Year, but the TN got pipped to the post of Newspaper of the Year by the UCD Observer.

Paying people to layout the paper should exclude from student media awards...

Thanks Ibid, that was very informative! What was your job at TN?

Do staff get paid, or is the funding solely for publication costs and equipment?

Time Magazine

<Jonny> wrote:

Thanks Ibid, that was very informative! What was your job at TN?

I was the SU & Societies editor.

Do staff get paid, or is the funding solely for publication costs and equipment?

For the TN the people who get advertising get a fairly handsome cut, but the "journalistic" staff are volunteers. I'm not sure how the UR gets ads but its staff are volunteers.

Both papers' editors are full(ish)-time employees.

Jager Man

Ibid wrote:

You mean Andrew Payne.

Woops my bad, its just all those bloody byrne baby byrne t-shirts must be having an effect.

Spectator#1

The editorship and a large number of contributors change every year, and I would withhold making judgements on the merits of individual writers until I had read some of their work, however, I found the quality of writing in the TN rather poor this year and the quality of design in the Record to be the same, from what little I saw of them.

I think a paper can make up for shortcomings in design through quality of articles, I haven't kept a close enough eye on the Record to be able to make a judgement concerning that though. I did think the TN left a lot to be desired in more than a few places the times I did have the privilege of reading it.

I don't think the SMEDIAs have given an adequate representation of where the talent lies in student publications in the past - not always, but often.

There's my tuppence-worth, I'm sure I'm in for an indignant reply from someone or other, but then again, it wouldn't be boards if I didn't!

shay_562

Ibid wrote:

The UR works in a similar way to TN, but was founded in the early '90s if I'm not mistaken, though I may be wrong in that regard.

The Record is a relatively recent invention, but the SU have been publishing a newspaper for quite a bit longer - I don't know the full details, just that in a previous incarnation it was known as "Liaison", and that there are copies floating around from at least back in the 1950s. (The benefits of a day sorting through old records) I'd actually be interested to know which is older, why the name changed and if it was just a name change or a general overhaul.

Spectator wrote:

The editorship and a large number of contributors change every year, and I would withhold making judgements on the merits of individual writers until I had read some of their work, however, I found the quality of writing in the TN rather poor this year and the quality of design in the Record to be the same, from what little I saw of them.

I'm not exactly a fan of TN (in fact, a quick search would turn up any number of posts from me complaining about it last year, when I had serious problems with their journalistic standards on more than one occasion), but a few issues aside (such as my ever-increasing loathing for Sorcha Lyons' sex column and some slight moral misgivings about publishing a libellous anonymous gossip column, funny as it can be) I've actually quite liked it this year. The photos are infinitely better, it's printed on better quality paper, the layout is far better, it gives a more balanced view of the SU, it's less self-indulgent...generally, TN is the far superior paper. And while the staff changes every year, the better paper will tend to attract better writers (this in particular is a boost for TN; they're always much more active about recruitment in Freshers' Week and so have better writers to choose from) who are trained by better people and continue to create a better paper; being a lowly SF, I have no idea how long TN has been considered "better" for, but just about every I've ever spoken too about it would consider it the better of the two.

(When you type "better" nine times in one paragraph, it starts to not look like a word any more)

Andrew 83

The TN editor is an unpaid position. I did however get a free room on campus for being editor though this year's editor didn't.

I'm clearly biased having edited TN last year but I have written for both and feel that while they both have potential, TN has been much better the last few years. I think the last time the Record was better was the year TN went tabloid as well and was almost always really late. That was 2002-2003. From 2003-2004 onwards I think TN has probably been the better.

Time Magazine

Andrew 83 wrote:

The TN editor is an unpaid position. I did however get a free room on campus for being editor though this year's editor didn't.

Really? My mistake.

Stargal

shay_562 wrote:

The Record is a relatively recent invention, but the SU have been publishing a newspaper for quite a bit longer - I don't know the full details, just that in a previous incarnation it was known as "Liaison", and that there are copies floating around from at least back in the 1950s... I'd actually be interested to know which is older, why the name changed and if it was just a name change or a general overhaul.

The Record only started in about 1998 or 1999 afaik. Before that there was a Union publication called Aontas (which has been threatened with resurrection by several DepPres' but has never actually materialised) which was just about passing on news and info about the SU.

Never heard of Liaison.

Yeah, that was odd especially since the SU only came about in '75 or so. Before that was the Students' Representative Council, which (I believe) consisted of several maoists & trotskyists. Perhaps Liaison was a Miscellany type of production?

And I've seen Aontas twice this year... it has been a photocopy of the SU e-mail, so nothing really new. I remember reading a copy of it about the elections in '93 or so, and it looks like it was quite good. I still think it could be quite useful.

Pet

The Record is written by a bunch of barely-literate science SU hacks who would be better off fiddling with agar plates in labs, because they certainly can't write a newspaper.

Andrew 83

<Jonny> wrote:

Are they both entirely student-run? Like a club or society might be?

Yes is the answer to this, though the SU Deputy President is paid to produce the Record.

wesclark

The current wisdom among b.ie/p.ie types is that they would almost be ashamed to write for the Record. For fu<k sake it’s Trinity’s second newspaper, there is no shame in that. The real shame is for perfectly literate, imaginative people like yourselves to sit on the sidelines and complain rather than seeing if there could be a bit of craic and a sense of achievement in helping to improve the Record. As students we collectively pay to print the Record, working at a paper looks good on your CV, the current editorial team bend over backwards for any student that wants to get involved.

shay_562

For fu<k sake it’s Trinity’s second newspaper,

...out of two! Seriously, unless you're comparing it to the likes of "In Transit" or "Miscellany" (which would be ridiculous for reasons I shouldn't even have to go into), there's no third newspaper for it to beat! Which is just as well, since it probably wouldn't.

As for improving the paper by writing for it ourselves, two things. First off, I don't know about anyone else, but I quite literally wouldn't have time to write for the Record. Second off, even if I did, hearing some of the campaign promises this year from two of the current sub-editors (which include the likes of "hold weekly editorial meetings", "hold workshops to train writers" and "have a hierarchy of control") I think I'd most likely go insane and kill everyone if I tried to work there. I don't function well around incompetence.

Yeah, that was odd especially since the SU only came about in '75 or so. Before that was the Students' Representative Council, which (I believe) consisted of several maoists & trotskyists. Perhaps Liaison was a Miscellany type of production?

I don't think so...I'm almost certain it said "the newspaper of the Student's Union". I'll go look through the Records again at some stage when I actually have the time and inclination and see if I can glean anything more by actually reading it properly...

ApeXaviour

Pet wrote:

The Record is written by a bunch of barely-literate science SU hacks who would be better off fiddling with agar plates in labs, because they certainly can't write a newspaper.

What spurred that mini-rant? It's funny though, cos TN can't seem to get enough sci students to write for them. At least I know the science editor, and he's continually begging people to write articles.

Where is the record btw? I haven't seen it since I came back from denmark in december. I've seen at least three issues of TN though.

Pet

ApeXaviour wrote:

What spurred that mini-rant? It's funny though, cos TN can't seem to get enough sci students to write for them. At least I know the science editor, and he's continually begging people to write articles.

From what I've seen of the people involved, they're more suited to writing a gossip column (and that's as a team) than a newspaper. Failing that, reading the Record should be more than enough proof.

Second off, even if I did, hearing some of the campaign promises this year from two of the current sub-editors (which include the likes of "hold weekly editorial meetings", "hold workshops to train writers" and "have a hierarchy of control") I think I'd most likely go insane and kill everyone if I tried to work there. I don't function well around incompetence.

Seconded. If I want to write, it should be for a paper that I'm proud to have my name in, rather than something that people would laugh at me for in later years. See, I'm only one man; I certainly couldn't undertake the task of dragging the Record up to acceptable journalistic standards by myself.

PHB

Both are utter crap. Their readership is tiny, and if it wasn't free, they'd probably sell no copies.
Aside from the incredible slide into tabloid sensationalist crap, which is strong in both paper, the complete lack of any sort of journalistic integrity is shocking.

wowy

shay_562 wrote:

I don't function well around incompetence.

Then what are you still doing on Hist Commitee?

Andrew 83

wesclark wrote:

he real shame is for perfectly literate, imaginative people like yourselves to sit on the sidelines and complain rather than seeing if there could be a bit of craic and a sense of achievement in helping to improve the Record. As students we collectively pay to print the Record, working at a paper looks good on your CV, the current editorial team bend over backwards for any student that wants to get involved.

I did my best, I wrote for it for a long time then ran for editor!

wesclark

Andrew 83 wrote:

I did my best, I wrote for it for a long time then ran for editor!

Asking this sincerely- how did you come to edit TN after writing for the Record?

shay_562

wowy wrote:

Then what are you still doing on Hist Commitee?

Heh...to be fair, I set myself up for that one. And to answer your question, at this stage, changes to the committee line-up are so commonplace there's no time for any kind of institutionalised incompetency to set in. Besides, who wants to be the fifth person to resign? It's so...passé.

ApeXaviour wrote:

Where is the record btw?

House 6. Dunno how good distribution is down at the Hamilton end, but since they can barely bring themselves to drag copies up to the Arts block, I wouldn't hold my breath.

PHB

From what I've seen of the people involved, they're more suited to writing a gossip column (and that's as a team) than a newspaper. Failing that, reading the Record should be more than enough proof.

True true, but is the news any ****ing better? It's main interest is the Agent which is basically a collection of rumours, heard or made up, by a group of people, one of which is the Peter. It prints lies, partial truths, and then mixes it with basic facts, like the peoples names, in the hopes that they get somebody to notice them. They are a glorified hairdressing chat room, with no integrity. What's worse, is that they think they are successful. To them, success is a group of people they know talking about the articles they wrote about people they know but don't like.

Then theres the powerlist, which initially started off as little fun, then denegrated into a bunch of people attempting to get some attention by basically insulting people they don't like.

It's really quite pathetic.

Andrew 83

wesclark wrote:

Asking this sincerely- how did you come to edit TN after writing for the Record?

I started off writing for the Record but then starting writing for TN too. I then became Sports Features editor of TN but still contributed articles to the Record too. I then ran for Deputy President, lost, then ran for TN editor and got it. I had been a writer and section editor for TN before becoming editor, I just happened to write for the Record too.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

Think Miscellany was the original 'student newspaper'. It's only turned into a magazine in the relatively recent past. Must have been quite good as it was sold, rather than given away for free. Good article on the old miscellany in the current issue of that magazine.

They had a strategy of having a new editor in each term, and at the end of each editor's term the managing board would publish a review of their performance. Seems to have been a no-holds barred review as well.

Some cool ads in it too e.g. "for the finest pipes, the coolest tobacco, the most knowledgeable students come to Smiths on Grafton Street"

Andrew 83

Roundtower2 wrote:

Think Miscellany was the original 'student newspaper'. It's only turned into a magazine in the relatively recent past. Must have been quite good as it was sold, rather than given away for free. Good article on the old miscellany in the current issue of that magazine.

They had a strategy of having a new editor in each term, and at the end of each editor's term the managing board would publish a review of their performance. Seems to have been a no-holds barred review as well.

Some cool ads in it too e.g. "for the finest pipes, the coolest tobacco, the most knowledgeable students come to Smiths on Grafton Street"

Yeah I could be wrong but I think Miscellany may be Ireland's oldest still in print magazine. It was a magazine but I suppose classed as a newspaper in a way. I've seen issues from the 1940s and wasn't too impressed with content to be honest but they're interesting to look at.