London mayor signs oil deal with Chavez

marco murphy

By JENNIFER QUINN, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 39 minutes ago

LONDON - London's socialist mayor signed an agreement Tuesday with Venezuela's state-owned oil company to provide discounted oil for the city's iconic red buses, praising the idea as the brainstorm of the country's leftist leader, Hugo Chavez.


Ken Livingstone — a committed socialist known locally as "Red Ken" — met with Chavez last year at City Hall to discuss the deal to provide cheap oil to London in exchange for advice on urban planning in Caracas, the Venezuelan capital.

Venezuela has signed similar agreements with cities in several other countries, including the United States. Critics call it "oil diplomacy" — and say it is designed to embarrass
President Bush, whom Chavez has repeatedly mocked.

"This arose out of the suggestion of President Hugo Chavez, and builds on the work he is doing around the world to tackle the problem of poverty," Livingstone said.

The savings — which would cut fuel costs by 20 percent for the city and could amount to about $32 million — are to be directed toward cheaper bus travel for up to 250,000 Londoners living on income support. Those who qualify will get a half-price discount on bus fares.

Under the agreement, city officials in Caracas will receive recommendations from British experts for "the urban reorganization" of the capital, Venezuelan Foreign Minister Nicholas Maduro said in an interview broadcast on state-run television.

Conservatives on the London city council said in a statement that London shouldn't be doing business with "third-rate South American dictators with an appalling human rights and democratic record."

"Why does London, one of the richest capitals in the world, need to exploit a developing nation?" asked Richard Barnes, deputy leader of the London Assembly Conservatives. "This money would be better directed at the poor of Venezuela."

The U.S. government and Chavez's opponents at home accuse him of undermining Venezuela's democratic institutions since he was first elected in 1998. Chavez, who was widely re-elected to a six-year term in December, says he is trying to remake an unjust system that sidelined the poor majority.

Livingstone, an advocate of green policies, said Venezuela and London were merely exchanging commodities.

Venezuela is the world's eighth-largest oil exporter.

London spends about $195 million a year on fuel for its fleet of 8,000 buses. The savings from the new oil agreement with Venezuela are equivalent to slightly less than 1 percent of the total cost of providing London's bus services, the mayor's office said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070220/ap_on_re_eu/britain_venezuela_oil


Some kick up the arse for Bush/Blair. What do people here think of Mr. Chavez?

Dirk Gently

Poblachtach wrote:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070220/ap_on_re_eu/britain_venezuela_oil


Some kick up the arse for Bush/Blair. What do people here think of Mr. Chavez?

A quick use of the search button will produce countless threads containing the opinions of posters on chavez. He pops up about once a month and we all have the same debate over and over again.

mike65

Tut-tut. Red Ken, it seems would sooner "grandstand" than encourage the development of a bio-diesel fleet for London.

Discount oil price? At whos expense exactly? The people of Venezuela I presume.

Mike.

marco murphy

Fair enough.

Dirk Gently

Poblachtach wrote:

Fair enough.

Sorry, don't mind me. I'm sure posters will flock to give their opinion once they see "chavez" in the title of the thread.

mcgarnicle

Out of all the things I have read about Chavez the only thing that has really stuck with me was a talk I had with a lady from Venezuela. It boiled down to an opinion I have heard plenty of times before but coming from a lady that lives in the country gave it added weight in my mind. Basically she felt that Chavez is more interested in making Blair and Bush look bad than sorting out the problems of Venezuela, his abuse of Venezuelan resources here would seem to illustrate this.

marco murphy

Basically she felt that Chavez is more interested in making Blair and Bush look bad than sorting out the problems of Venezuela, his abuse of Venezuelan resources here would seem to illustrate this.

Do you draw conclusions from one persons opinion?

And how exactly has he ''abused'' the countrys resources.

mcgarnicle

Poblachtach wrote:

Do you draw conclusions from one persons opinion?

Like I said, I've read it plenty of times from plenty of sources. Coming from a person that actually lives in the country gave it weight.

Poblachtach wrote:

And how exactly has he ''abused'' the countrys resources.

Giving London cheap fuel for its busses, just because Livingston is on side and it will make Blair look bad even though there are people in Venezuela who need that money... yes,very hard to see how this is an abuse of Venezuelan resources.

Hobbes

I would of thought Ken would of needed approval from the Home Office regardless for such issues. The US one as I recall is handled through the gas company Chevron(? I forget), not Venezuela directly.

The Corinthian

Chavez's increasingly authoritarian rule is a matter of concern to a lot of people, regardless of their political persuasion. His recent moves to seize ownership of businesses that sell meet is a case in point as it does not simply target large Tesco-style retail chains, but small family owned butchers.

His, non-Venezuelan, supporters are presently going through a denial phase (much like black activist groups did with Idi Amin, refusing to accept any report of his regime's brutality) and at this stage I'm simply waiting for the inevitable Castro-style dictatorship to be finally put in place before starting a thread here to have a good laugh at them.

Hobbes

The Corinthian wrote:

Chavez's increasingly authoritarian rule is a matter of concern to a lot of people, regardless of their political persuasion. His recent moves to seize ownership of businesses that sell meet is a case in point as it does not simply target large Tesco-style retail chains, but small family owned butchers.

Ok I read the story you linked to. Prehaps you can tell me then if the local stores in Ireland started stockpiling food and putting prices far above normal levels that people couldn't afford what do you think the Irish government would do?

I am not saying its right or wrong, but from the way you present it you make it out that hes just grabbing stores left right and center for the sake of it. According to the story you linked to this is not the case. Prehaps you can link to a story that refutes that?

His, non-Venezuelan, supporters are presently going through a denial

Just once I would love to see comments put forwards which didn't then follow up with trying to lump everyone who has a different opinion to you in a fixed demographic then comparing that demographic to idiots/monsters.

I mean comparing Chavez to Idi Amin. I expected better.

sovtek

Hobbes wrote:

I would of thought Ken would of needed approval from the Home Office regardless for such issues. The US one as I recall is handled through the gas company Chevron(? I forget), not Venezuela directly.

Citgo

Hobbes

sovtek wrote:

Citgo

That's the one!

sovtek

I'm still patiently waiting for this eventual dictator that's been talked about for years now. That's besides the US media already calling Chavez that.
There seems to be a correlation between expectations of dictatorship and leaders instituting economic systems "we" don't like.
Do I need to also point out the sometimes laughable hypocracy in our own leaders' lack of democratic credentials.

The Corinthian

Hobbes wrote:

Ok I read the story you linked to. Prehaps you can tell me then if the local stores in Ireland started stockpiling food and putting prices far above normal levels that people couldn't afford what do you think the Irish government would do?

If you read the story in question, the claim of stockpiling comes from Chavez’s government. I’m interested to note that you accept everything it says without question though.

As for what the Irish government would do? It would make the practice illegal as it has made many unfair commercial practices. It wouldn’t use it as a pretext to confiscate people’s businesses.

I am not saying its right or wrong, but from the way you present it you make it out that hes just grabbing stores left right and center for the sake of it. According to the story you linked to this is not the case. Prehaps you can link to a story that refutes that?

Get a grip. I’ve made no such inference. The story clearly states that he is presently positioning himself to do just that but has not yet done so and I’ve inferred nothing different.

Of course, he may simply be using scare tactics to get these businesses to tow the line. However, if his modus operandi to date and tendency to copy Castro is anything to go by, then it is more likely that he will nationalise them.

Just once I would love to see comments put forwards which didn't then follow up with trying to lump everyone who has a different opinion to you in a fixed demographic then comparing that demographic to idiots/monsters.

Well, to be honest I do think that a lot of Chavez supporters are idiots. For example, I will disagree with Dadakopf here more often than not here, but at least he is objective enough to question his cult of personality and increasingly authoritarian moves.

For others he’s beyond reproach and apparently can do no wrong. This I do find laughable, and I probably would regardless of his political leanings - I equally find the fools who are convinced that Thatcher, Mussolini or Pinochet did no wrong just as bad.

I mean comparing Chavez to Idi Amin. I expected better.

Actually I was comparing the blind hero worship that both enjoy (past tense in Amin’s case). Apologies for rocking the pedestal.

sovtek wrote:

I'm still patiently waiting for this eventual dictator that's been talked about for years now.

Well, depends on how you want to define a dictator. If we can agree on a definition we may well be able to do that. Otherwise if you prefer I’m sure you can come up with some definition that he can never fulfil and that way you can be right.

There seems to be a correlation between expectations of dictatorship and leaders instituting economic systems "we" don't like.

Ahh, that’s must be why you don’t like Pinochet