Tournament Final Table

MacStacked

Final table of live MTT 9 handed. Top 3 for decent money. Blinds 400/800 with 75 ante, average stack 32k. Im on 16k and have been playing tighty mc tight.

Im BB with 88.

UTG +1 limps (50k) playing loose enough, has limp folded a couple of times before.

UTG +3 limps (70k Chip leader) very loose and not afraid to get his chips in the middle.

Folded to me. Whats my move?

Hitman Actual

Ship it. You either pick up the dead money uncontested with a marginal hand that you'd often have to fold on the flop, or get it all-in against the loose chip leader where you're a decent favourite against his range. Not sure what to make of the first limper though, but I still think it's a push. And you really need a double up, tbh.

Scouser in Dub

lenny_leonard wrote:

Ship it. You either pick up the dead money uncontested with a marginal hand that you'd often have to fold on the flop, or get it all-in against the loose chip leader where you're a decent favourite against his range. Not sure what to make of the first limper though, but I still think it's a push. And you really need a double up, tbh.

.

This is an autopush for me there are going to be a lot of flops you don't like and against there ranges playing loose you should be ahead here

MacStacked

lenny_leonard wrote:

And you really need a double up, tbh.

Although shortstacked relative to the rest of the table I still have 20bbs left I am not in terrible shape and can comfortably survive 2 more rounds of the button.

padser

MacStacked wrote:

Although shortstacked relative to the rest of the table I still have 20bbs left I am not in terrible shape and can comfortably survive 2 more rounds of the button.

True, but those 20BB greatly increase your chances of picking up the money uncontested. Realistically are either of the two players before you likely ot be slowrolling anything? If not, and with your loose image they will probably fold.

Hitman Actual

MacStacked wrote:

Although shortstacked relative to the rest of the table I still have 20bbs left I am not in terrible shape and can comfortably survive 2 more rounds of the button.

I agree you're not in terrible shape, but the antes in play make it a bit tighter. Plus even at 20BBs your folding equity will get very bad very soon when you're short relative to the rest of the table.

I suppose the question is what's your plan for the flop and beyond? Most of the time you will end up check-folding or lead-folding, I'd imagine. The EV is probably somewhere around neutral. Stop-and-go might work, but that's not great against two opponents. So I think pushing now has the highest EV. Also, I don't think the prize pool has much of a bearing on your decision, as you're still far from the money in $EV terms (you need the top three, like you said).

sikes

how many places are being paid?

MacStacked

sikes wrote:

how many places are being paid?

Top 6.

eoghan104

MacStacked wrote:

Top 6.

I'd imagine that the only money really worth playin for is top 3 so its a push for me as im willing to get into a coinflip here and theres a good chance you take it down!!!

it depends on wether you want to limp into the money or win really!

modmuffin

Autopush

I take it loose CL = chief?......he'll probably call with Q6s etc

MacStacked

No chief is 2nd in chips.

Does anybody like a check (leaving a very playable stack) and look to double through if we hit a set?

Or raise and push any flop?

Scouser in Dub

MacStacked wrote:

Or raise and push any flop?

I don't think if either of them call a raise you are deep enough to push them off any hand on the flop and you could also be pushing with the 2nd best hand

ollyk1

MacStacked wrote:

Final table of live MTT 9 handed. Top 3 for decent money. Blinds 400/800 with 75 ante, average stack 32k. Im on 16k and have been playing tighty mc tight.

Im BB with 88.

UTG +1 limps (50k) playing loose enough, has limp folded a couple of times before.

UTG +3 limps (70k Chip leader) very loose and not afraid to get his chips in the middle.

Folded to me. Whats my move?

I think you have the order wrong here Mac. UTG +1 was Mick the lip (CL with 70k) and UTG +3 was the Chief with 50k.

Not that it matters. I think the problem with this hand as played is that you look like you have a middle PP with a big push here. Not many bet 16k in here with QQ say (that's why that would be a good move!) What would you do with AK /AQ here or JJ+??

I personally prefer a healthy raise in this spot or a check rather than a push. I think a raise to 6-7k is good here and tank the rest in on the flop with Irish position. It jsut looks stronger and you have three ways to beat overcards then.

1. they fold fearing they may be dominated.
2. they call and miss on the flop
3. You flop a set and they hit their raggedy ass Ace (my personal favourite!! lol)

(P.S. Having said the above in relation to the hand as played by you I still don't like Mick's call with his holding but that's a side issue. You were unlucky in the end that is all.)

Scouser in Dub

I could be well off here but my thoughts would be that there is already 3.5 k in the pot when it comes to the OP so any raise is going to be about 4k more that leaves the OP with 11k after posting his blind if it's called in both places there is going to be over 15k in the pot with less than that behind.

We are not liking many flops
We have reduced FE

I presonally prefer to get it in here while ahead as I am going to hate C/F this on the flop and I don't want to open push the flop when there are going to be lots of scare cards about

With regard to AK here I am pushing that as well

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

sikes

2800+675 antes -> 3475 pot

we have a <15.2k stack after blinds, if the player who limped in early had been tight then perhaps I wouldnt ship it in. However, this is a pretty good spot to increase our stack by >20%, send out a message about our blinds and make ourseleves out to be a maniac.

this is such a good position to push.

MacStacked

ollyk1 wrote:

I think you have the order wrong here Mac. UTG +1 was Mick the lip (CL with 70k) and UTG +3 was the Chief with 50k.

Yeh Olly your right, it was Mick Utg +1 then the Chief with 50k in Mp.

I ended up raising to 4k if i remeber correctly and Mick moved all-in..
The chief folded as expected and I had what I felt at the time was an easy enough call considering the range I have Mick on to make this move.

He has A9 and takes the pot on the river.

I thought it was an interesting hand given the specific stack sizes and wasnt sure if i had played it correctly. I dont like moving all-in with the limpers for 22BBs as I think it does scream medium pair that doesnt want a call.

Anyway thanks for all the comments.

sikes

you raise, utg+1 calls, chief will call.

whats your plan for the hand now?

You should be playing many hands like this, not just medium PPs.

MacStacked

Yeh this is basically why I posted the hand im not 100% comfortable with how it was played. As has already been said I think pushing is pretty transparent and by raising I thought it looks a little bit more like I want action thus increasing the percieved strength of my hand, however against players who will not fold top pair any kicker on any flop taking a flop isnt the best either..

sikes

MacStacked wrote:

As has already been said I think pushing is pretty transparent

You should be playing a pretty wide range like this as I have already said, so I don't think its pretty transparent what you have, by pushing you are making the mistake the other players could make bigger.

There seems to be a sort of thing with tourney players, where they think its often wrong to stick your stack all in because it looks fishy or something, in a vague attempt to show that tourney players can play "real" poker like cash game players. People have to realise the value of adding 20% to your stack uncontested. This is pretty big deal, and by pushing you are making the prospect greater.

If you are calling a push stick it in, we would prefer to take the hand down uncontested.

Hitman Actual

I'm with sikes here, I don't think pushing is transparent at all, but then again I will do this with a lot of hands depending on the situation.

And I don't like the raise at all either; I think it's the worst option of all. I see where Olly is coming from with a raise/flop-push representing a big hand, but trying to represent anything against two loose idiots (as this thread points the opponents out to be) is pointless. Forget the fancy stuff, stick it in pre-flop and be done with it!