M50 Today as bad as the radio made out - 4 Axles good, 5 Axles bad...

gandalf

According to Newtalk traffic on the M50 was "Hell-like" around the M1 Interchange. Now I drive from Ballinteer to the Tallaght exit and it was heavy not unusual for the time I left on a wet Monday morning. I did notice more of the larger trucks (5 axles) on the road though.

Was it really that bad over there and do you all reckon DCC will have to do a climb down on the 5 axle truck ban or not. Bear in mind this week alot of schools are off from mid-term as well.

If the M50 is gridlocked anymore I can see FF and the PD's taking an absolute hammering in the suburbs, Kildare, Meath and Wicklow.

Wishbone Ash

gandalf wrote:

According to Newtalk traffic on the M50 was "Hell-like" around the M1 Interchange. Now I drive from Ballinteer to the Tallaght exit and it was heavy not unusual for the time

Most of the additional traffic would be between the Port Tunnell/M1 and the N2/N3/N4/N7 exits and vice versa. (The schools are also closed this week).

gandalf

So is it just first day teething trouble or are we looking at a total meltdown next week when Mommy jumps in the People Carrier/SUV to bring little Johnny to school.

peter1892

According to DCAL FM (who are usually on the ball wioth traffic reports) it was taking up to an hour to drive from Clare Hall (Malahdie road) to the M50 along the N32 (about 1.5 miles).

Part of the problem is that the M1/M50 junction will get blocked up by the amount of HGV traffic leaving the tunnel for the M50 southbound when it's busy. It's also bad heading the other way, when HGV's bound for the port have to cross over into the outside lane at the M1/M50 in order to turn right & head down into the tunnel itself.

That particular junction (J3) hasn't been upgraded & the trucks block the roundabout while waiting for the lights to change in their favour. It's not the HGV driver's fault, they're just doing what they've been told to do.

gandalf

Of course its not the HGV drivers fault, its the problem that we have with nearly every infrastructure project in this country lack of co-ordinated planning. Surely it would make more sense to wait until at the very least that junction is upgraded and at best the M50 upgrade has been finished.

Calina

The M50 upgrade should have been completed in tandem with the Port Tunnel. It is a mystery to me why this didn't occur to anyone with any authority in the area that the sequence of events was a bad, bad idea.

Bluetonic

peter1892 wrote:

Part of the problem is that the M1/M50 junction will get blocked up by the amount of HGV traffic leaving the tunnel for the M50 southbound when it's busy. It's also bad heading the other way, when HGV's bound for the port have to cross over into the outside lane at the M1/M50 in order to turn right & head down into the tunnel itself.

They only need to get into lane 2, which turns into lane 1 at the portal. For a truck it's illegal to drive in the outside lane.

Also a truck travelling from the Westlink to Dublin Port never leaves the M50 as the tunnel itself and the section of old M1 is now M50.

mike65

traffic cameras

Mike.

faceman

I dont think the kids bein off school makes any significant difference to m50 traffic. but i was wondering about m50 traffic today. I expected the media to say traffic was woeful even tho it was probably the same as last monday!

Any daily m50 users care to comment say on friday about how the week has gone?

i also agree with Calina's comment about m50 works. Altho in fairness the works should have started a few years ago.

mackerski

Bluetonic wrote:

They only need to get into lane 2, which turns into lane 1 at the portal. For a truck it's illegal to drive in the outside lane.

It's also illegal for them to drive in lane 2. Odd, but true.

spacetweek

Calina wrote:

The M50 upgrade should have been completed in tandem with the Port Tunnel. It is a mystery to me why this didn't occur to anyone with any authority in the area that the sequence of events was a bad, bad idea.

Easier said than done. The original intention was to have the M50 upgrade complete by now. But they didn't get it off the ground fast enough.

peter1892

Bluetonic wrote:

They only need to get into lane 2, which turns into lane 1 at the portal. For a truck it's illegal to drive in the outside lane.

Also a truck travelling from the Westlink to Dublin Port never leaves the M50 as the tunnel itself and the section of old M1 is now M50.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'lane 2' but if you mean the middle of the 3 lanes that lead onto the J3 roundabout then when you drive past the slip road for the M1 north that central lane leads straight onto the left hand lane on the flyover itself. The arrow on the tarmac points straight on (to the N32) so any vehicle in that lane shouldn't be turning down to the tunnel. I must look again tomorrow though (I go onto the N32 so I don't really care about the other lanes!).

But you know what - it doesn't matter. The upgrade works shuld have been done before the tunnel opened...

corktina

skight change of subject...are 5 axle trucks allowed in the city centre when the 5th axle is not in use (ie cranked up off the ground)?

Mr Magnolia

corktina wrote:

skight change of subject...are 5 axle trucks allowed in the city centre when the 5th axle is not in use (ie cranked up off the ground)?

Wouldn't imagine so, 5 axles is 5 axles.

Mr Magnolia

gandalf wrote:

Of course its not the HGV drivers fault, its the problem that we have with nearly every infrastructure project in this country lack of co-ordinated planning. Surely it would make more sense to wait until at the very least that junction is upgraded and at best the M50 upgrade has been finished.

There it is right there, I too can't believe they didn't wait for the up-grade to be completed. The M50 was particularly bad this morning partially due to a crash south of the toll.

fletch

peter1892 wrote:

According to DCAL FM (who are usually on the ball wioth traffic reports) it was taking up to an hour to drive from Clare Hall (Malahdie road) to the M50 along the N32 (about 1.5 miles).

OMFG I would have lost the plot completely!

faceman wrote:

I dont think the kids bein off school makes any significant difference to m50 traffic.

Do you actually use the M50!? It makes a massive difference!

m_stan

spacetweek wrote:

Easier said than done. The original intention was to have the M50 upgrade complete by now. But they didn't get it off the ground fast enough.

May I remind everyone that the so called 'm50 upgrade' is only for a short stretch of 4 interchanges. If you stop to consider what happens at the end of this short stretch on either side as the lanes go from 4 into 2, you'll begin to realise what bad planning is all about.

Just in case I need to spell it out - what they are creating here will be the biggest bottleneck on the whole stretch of the M50 - one on each side. Mark my words and come back here when the 'upgraded m50' is opened.

Why this 'upgrade' wasn't done on the entire length of the motorway is beyond me !

*rant over for the moment*

sharkman

Why oh why did the port tunnel not go up the quays and join the M50 at the mad cow roundabout ?

Bluetonic

sharkman wrote:

Why oh why did the port tunnel not go up the quays and join the M50 at the mad cow roundabout ?

Because it's only part of a larger ring road around Dublin, which may or may not be completed with a southern tunnel/eastern bypass.

Bluetonic

m_stan wrote:

May I remind everyone that the so called 'm50 upgrade' is only for a short stretch of 4 interchanges. If you stop to consider what happens at the end of this short stretch on either side as the lanes go from 4 into 2, you'll begin to realise what bad planning is all about.

The proposed 24 km upgrade of sections of the M50, known as M50 PPP Contract, is between the existing M1 and the N3 junctions and between the N7 junction and the Sandyford Interchange.

http://www.nra.ie/PublicPrivatePartnership/ProjectTracker/M50Upgrade/

Phase II
The PPP contract will comprise the design, construction, operation, maintenance and financing of:

* the upgrade of the existing two lane carriageway between the existing M1 and the N3 (Blanchardstown) junctions and between the N7 junction and the Sandyford Interchange to three lane standard;
· the provision of auxiliary lanes between the M1 and N3 junctions and between the N7 and Scholarstown junctions;
* the major upgrade of the junctions at the M1, N2 (Finglas) and N3 from their current grade separated junction type to partially free flow interchange, and
* upgrade works to the junctions at Ballymun, Ballymount, the N81 (Tallaght), Scholarstown and Sandyford.

The procurement of Phase II as a PPP project has commenced. It is anticipated that the contract will be awarded by end 2006 and that works will be completed by mid 2010. The upgrade of the Westlink Toll Plaza and adjacent roadworks will be procured under a separate contract.

Phase 1 currently currently underway to to be completed next year, Phase 2 to be completed in 3 years.

UsedtobePC

Quick summary of my own experience on the M50 yesterday and today:
Yesterday morning: Hell. My 50 min drive from Blanch to Leopardstown turned into 1:30.
Yesterday Evening: Where the feck was all the traffic? 35 mins and I was back in the Wesht?
This morning: Lots of HGV's but traffic was fine.

I wonder what's going to happen when lil Johnny goes back to school. Just in case I'm already looking for jobs in closer to Blanch. Offers anyone?

peter1892

40 minutes this morning from junction 3 to junction 14. The traffic only started slowing at Finglas. From there to the toll bridge I would guess that 80-90% of the traffic in the inside lane was 5 axle HGV's.

But it was moving quite well. This was after 9am, I don't know if it would be any better or worse earlier in the morning.

D'Peoples Voice

gandalf wrote:

Was it really that bad over there and do you all reckon DCC will have to do a climb down on the 5 axle truck ban or not.

If the M50 is gridlocked anymore I can see FF and the PD's taking an absolute hammering in the suburbs, Kildare, Meath and Wicklow.

On the contrary, most people know that the PD's have little or no representation on DCC, and I think FF were hammered in the Local elections in 2004, so the decision to force trucks onto the M50 would have to been agreed by the opposition parties who now dominate DCC. Most people are aware of this.
As for timing of this decision with the M50 upgrade, well all of phase 1 of the upgrade is being undertaken by SDCC, a compeltely different adminsitrative county to DCC (strictly a very short amount of the M50 crosses through dublin city administrative county but usually SDCC look after that on their behalf).
We know from experience that county councils have a track record of not talking. Just look at the upgrade of the M4/N6, check how almost every stage of it was developed by the ONE county council almost every time. Rather did any upgrade cross borders! The N7/N8 seems to be an exception to this rule!

Captain Trips

gandalf wrote:

So is it just first day teething trouble or are we looking at a total meltdown next week when Mommy jumps in the People Carrier/SUV to bring little Johnny to school.

Well ban people carriers and SUVs from outside the canals. Problem solved.
IN fact, ban all MPVs (especially Trajets which I seem to be stuck behind forever), SUVs and trucks from everywhere.

mackerski

I say ban everything except blue, left-hand-driver BMWs. That should work just peachy.

gandalf

Captain Trips wrote:

Well ban people carriers and SUVs from outside the canals. Problem solved.
IN fact, ban all MPVs (especially Trajets which I seem to be stuck behind forever), SUVs and trucks from everywhere.

Hmmm what is the deal with Trajets I have the same problem, normally with a snot nosed kid making faces at you out the back window.

Well traffic was a little better for me today but still alot heavier than when the schools are off normally. Should be very interesting next Monday.....

faceman

fletch wrote:

OMFG I would have lost the plot completely!
Do you actually use the M50!? It makes a massive difference!

Im curious about this. How many familes take their kids to school via the m50 or am i missing something here? (im not bein smart btw!)

_Kaiser_

I'd say it's more parents commuting on to work after dropping little Johnny/Jenny to school?

faceman

^ but they would drive to work anyway?

APM

just want to add went N32 to Celbridge via M50 this morning at 10.40 - was in celbridge by 11. traffic was very light.

Coming opposite direction at 2.30pm traffic was the same. pity its not always like that!

Wishbone Ash

mackerski wrote:

It's also illegal for them to drive in lane 2. Odd, but true.

Eh, no it's not odd because it's not true.

In a two lane motorway carriageway, it is illegal for a truck to use the right hand lane. However, in a three lane motorway carriageway, a truck may use the left hand or centre lane but not the right hand lane.

Do you not think the DPT planners would know this?

Victor

D'Peoples Voice wrote:

gandalf wrote:

If the M50 is gridlocked anymore I can see FF and the PD's taking an absolute hammering in the suburbs, Kildare, Meath and Wicklow.

On the contrary, most people know that the PD's have little or no representation on DCC, and I think FF were hammered in the Local elections in 2004, so the decision to force trucks onto the M50 would have to been agreed by the opposition parties who now dominate DCC. Most people are aware of this.

Bertie came out before Christmas saying the 5-axle ban should have been put in place immediately that the tunnel was opened.

We know from experience that county councils have a track record of not talking. Just look at the upgrade of the M4/N6, check how almost every stage of it was developed by the ONE county council almost every time. Rather did any upgrade cross borders! The N7/N8 seems to be an exception to this rule!

The M4 crosses the Meath / Kildare / Westmeath border quite a few times. It made sense for one council to lead.

mackerski wrote:

I say ban everything except blue, left-hand-driver BMWs. That should work just peachy.

Then try finding your car in a shopping centre car park.

Wishbone Ash wrote:

In a two lane motorway carriageway, it is illegal for a truck to use the right hand lane. However, in a three lane motorway carriageway, a truck may use the left hand or centre lane but not the right hand lane.

Eh, didn't they botch this? But the trucks can use any lane if at a junction.

Wishbone Ash

Victor wrote:

But the trucks can use any lane if at a junction.

If they were at a junction, wouldn't the motorway have ended. The only place where I can think of where it is legal for a truck to be in the right most lane of a motorway is on the M1 westbound to Dublin Airport. A truck coming from the north and wishing to go to the airport has no choice but to enter the Motorway on the right lane.

Bluetonic

Wishbone Ash wrote:

A truck coming from the north and wishing to go to the airport has no choice but to enter the Motorway on the right lane.

Same can be said of the road the opposite way around, coming from the airport roundabout, going south or north on the M1, you enter the M1 in the right most lane.

jank

What is the city centre like now that the trucks are off the road?
Good? bad? Indifferent?

Would ye say that the tunnel has brought about an improvement in city centre traffic?

dowlingm

until Balbriggan Port is built and railfreight of at least some of these HGVs contents happens, things are only going to get worse.

bk

jank wrote:

Would ye say that the tunnel has brought about an improvement in city centre traffic?

Yes, definitely a great improvement.

Wishbone Ash

Does anyone know if the legislation banning all HGVs with 5+ axles specifies fitted axles or axles in use?

If I was driving an unladen six axle combination (3 on tractor, 3 on trailer) and raised 2 axles, would I legally be able to enter the city? I would only have 4 axles in contact with the ground.

I know that this would go against the spirit of the ban but I'm just curious.

(There are still quite a few standard 4 axle artics around and they are the same size, but not weight, as 5 and 6 axle combinations).

mackerski

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Eh, no it's not odd because it's not true.

Sure enough - I've reread the law and I see where I went wrong. When I first read it some time ago it surprised me that, unlike in the UK, trucks are barred from lane 2 of 2 lane motorways (as the right-most lane). I extrapolated that to a general ban on lane 2 and above, which as you point out, is (rightly) not the case.

But the ban for 2-lane motorways is IMHO fairly dodgy, and probably makes it illegal for trucks to go from M50 northbound to M50 tunnel-bound. And no, the motorway doesn't end here, the roundabout is under motorway regs.

Wishbone Ash

mackerski wrote:

and probably makes it illegal for trucks to go from M50 northbound to M50 tunnel-bound. And no, the motorway doesn't end here, the roundabout is under motorway regs.

But doesn't that roundabout have 3 lanes? Trucks would be permitted to take the 3rd exit (to head for DPT via the centre lane. (I'm open to correction).

peter1892

Wishbone Ash wrote:

But doesn't that roundabout have 3 lanes? Trucks would be permitted to take the 3rd exit (to head for DPT via the centre lane. (I'm open to correction).

Yes it does. The stretch of road that leads onto the J3 roundabout has 3 lanes but the inside lane is for left turns only (i.e. onto the M1 northbound). Which is redundant as there are 2 free-flow lanes taking traffic from the M50 northbound onto the M1 before the roundabout anyway. That inside lane rarely has any traffic in it.

On passing the M1 north exit, the centre & right lanes on that part of the roundabout both allow for traffic to turn right (towards the tunnel). But with more HGV's on that junction there's more congestion as the traffic is held up by traffic lights.

So on approach to J3 any traffic wishing to head down to the tunnel has to be in the outside lane. This is what's indicated by the overhead signs. I don't know how that fits in with the legal requirements, as it's only a 3 lane carriageway for maybe 100-200 metres.

Victor

corktina wrote:

skight change of subject...are 5 axle trucks allowed in the city centre when the 5th axle is not in use (ie cranked up off the ground)?

No (unless you have a permit or it is after 7pm). It is easy to count the number of axels and that is the rule being used. Much harder to gauge a vehicle by tonnes or length without stopping it.