Checking in the Dark

RoadSweeper

After reading about it in the bops thread and seeing quite a bit of it at the Nspc. I wondering if this is a way of (as said it the other thread) "looking cool" and maybe giving the impression that they play at a higher level of the game than the basic home game player.

Is there any other merits or advantages to this or not worth considering?


Hear the new Tribeca Software has a check in the dark button

con_leche

First and last time I checked in ze dark, was after getting HU in a cash game, with a weak opponent, big pot pre-flop, when I was holding bullets.

Board came 3 clubs, he took his free card to the turn, another club.

I wasn't holding any clubs, so I fold AA, showing them to the bloke beside me, sick as a parrot, listening to a load of muppets spouting the mantra:

"Show one, show all."

First and last time for everything.

But now I think I was the bigger muppet for checking dark at all...

NickyOD

At least 30% of the heads up cash game pots I deal are checked in the dark. I can't understand why anyone would do it. I don't think I've ever done it when I've played. You're giving up any edge you might have should the right line to take be to lead the flop. The only reason I can think for doing it is if your oponent is a total tellbox.

RoadSweeper

is it a cash game or tournament move in general/at the most?

BobSloane

I think it is just a way of effectively getting position on the flop. Sometimes its quite useful. I don't think I would do it with bullets as you don't want to lose the lead in that situation. Possibly with a hand like a small pocket pair if you have called a raise out of position. I would do it occasionally but not very often as it does make you look like a bit of a clown

Wreck

RoadSweeper wrote:

is it a cash game or tournament move in general/at the most?

From my (admittedly limited) experience, its far more common in cash games. I think its motivated by the hope of either unsettling the opponent(s) in the hand or limiting the disadvantage of having to act first. Either way its a terrible move.

Glowingmind

High Stakes Poker. I mostly blame that.

phantom_lord

I used to do it sometimes when I played in live cash games in multiway pots, as a way of gaining position.

I also got bored sometimes so I'd complete and check my sb dark for some excitment...

Slash/ED

It can be a good move in some situations, I think. It can confuse your opponents, and if you're playing low pockets for set value or suited connecters, it may give you a free look at the turn if you would otherwise have faced a continuity bet which could help you hit your flush/straight if you floped a draw, and would disguise it better on the turn, or give you a 4th shot at hitting your set. Depends on the opponent really, if you're playing low pockets again you could hit your set and it could be disguised and the check in the dark would make it more likely he'll fire a continuity bet at you, it all depends how you think your opponent will react. If you think your opponent will put you on a hand like that when you check the dark, it could be a good way to play aces or kings, as he's likely to fire a big bet at you if he thinks you're liable to be drawing if he has a hand.

Also, it's a good way of avoiding playing a multi-way pot out of position. I don't think it's entirely without merit.

Most important of all, it makes you look cool. And should at all times be accompanied by the wearing of sunglasses, even if it is some fiver rebuy game.

cooker3

If someone checks in the dark to me, I just instantly think they are a donkey, I can't see any reason to do it.

Slash/ED

That in itself is a reason to do it Having someone think you're a donkey is not a bad thing, assuming you aren't anyway

Lazare

Slash/ED wrote:

It can be a good move in some situations, I think. It can confuse your opponents, and if you're playing low pockets for set value or suited connecters, it may give you a free look at the turn if you would otherwise have faced a continuity bet which could help you hit your flush/straight if you floped a draw, and would disguise it better on the turn, or give you a 4th shot at hitting your set. Depends on the opponent really, if you're playing low pockets again you could hit your set and it could be disguised and the check in the dark would make it more likely he'll fire a continuity bet at you, it all depends how you think your opponent will react. If you think your opponent will put you on a hand like that when you check the dark, it could be a good way to play aces or kings, as he's likely to fire a big bet at you if he thinks you're liable to be drawing if he has a hand.
.

Slight contradiction there.

The only positive effect of checking dark, is you might get a free turn. Why you would want to check a flopped set is beyond me.

phantom_lord

cooker3 wrote:

If someone checks in the dark to me, I just instantly think they are a donkey, I can't see any reason to do it.

you need to play more live cash

robinlacey

i have never done this and i've never understood why people do it,however i often get a vague feeling that people think it is somehow intimidating or something,also they definitely think it makes them look cool.

robinlacey

i also don't get why people chop preflop

MadsL

i also don't get why people chop preflop

A raise utg, 4 callers and then a reraise and a re-reraise. Limpers and Original raiser drop out.
Two players suspect they are playing a 50/50 hand. They both agree to turn over. It is 50/50.

Why not chop it...that way you both guarantee profit. It might p1ss the others off but ...

Slash/ED

Lazare wrote:

Slight contradiction there.

Not really, it's opponent dependent, and so would be when you'd do it.

I don't think it's a move without merit. Alot of the time it is probably done by people who haven't a notion why they're doing it however.

"Why you would want to check a flopped set is beyond me." Well hypotetically, say your opponent is one who continuity bets when checked to him regularly, but you are a player who he has a read on of when they check they have a hand and they bet with nothing. If you bet, he may fold anyway, if he's hit none of the flop, but if you check he'll be suspicious and you may not get action off him if he has a semi decent hand like top pair or something. So checking in the dark will disguise your hand...It's not a great hypotetical example I'll grant you but it's late and I'm tired, but basically if it disguises your hand and adds value to something like a flopped set it could be a good move if you're prepared to accept that you'll be throwing the hand away more often than not.

Jesus Wept

Glowingmind wrote:

High Stakes Poker. I mostly blame that.

I blame David Williams at the final table of the WSOP 2004, he checked dark and flopped a set, he got allin on the flop against Josh Arieh who had AK, and flopped top pair,

it all would of gone in anyhow at some point in the hand, but Williams ran over to Marcel Luske like a giddy schoogirl exclaiming 'Check-Dark! Check in the dark!?' like it something mystical...


I now refer to Williams as 'check-dark'.

Tar.Aldarion

I do it sometimes. All-in in the dark sometimes too, having seen my cards and the flop.
Sometimes it causes people to read you wrong, is the only thing I can think of.

bops

if there's a scarey board and you have a marginal hand and are first to act - it gives you position (sort of!) and may also confuse opponents which is always a good thing!

cooker3

bops wrote:

if there's a scarey board and you have a marginal hand and are first to act - it gives you position (sort of!) and may also confuse opponents which is always a good thing!

It also usually means the above, a marginal hand which means I can play perfectly against you when you check dark as it is weak.

fixer

I do it when I am in the blinds and call an aggro raiser pre-flop. I don't do it after the flop.