Table Balancing Decision

NickyOD

I already have my answer to this. I THINK I'm right but I'm interested to hear other opinions on because I tihnk there is a common misconception about moving players into the blinds.

You are the Director of a small poker tournament of at least 3 tables.

When you are reduced to 18 players you break one table to make it 2 tables of 9. On one table you find that the 19th player to get knocked out was knocked out in the Big blind.

Here is where it gets complicated. 2 players have moved to the seats to the left of the player who posted the small blind in the previous hand.

For example...

Hand 1. Seat 9 is button, Seat 1 is small blind. Seat 2 is BB, Seat 3 is empty. Seat 4 is UTG. Seat 2 is knocked out.

Hand 2. Seat 1 is now the button and Seats 2 and 3 have been filled by 2 new players.

Who posts the blinds?

bohsman

Liam Floods ruling will be seat2 is the sb seat3 the bb, normal ruling seat2 would be bb on his own.

Imposter

The ruling here in Linz would be that there is just the big blind in seat 2.

NickyOD

bohsman wrote:

Liam Floods ruling will be seat2 is the sb seat3 the bb, normal ruling seat2 would be bb on his own.

So basically you're saying the normal rule of thumb is that a player cannot come in on the small blind?

I think the reason for Liam Flood's ruling is that without it Seat 1 will have position on everyone at the table 2 hands in a row even though the seats to his left have been filled.

TheRock

NickyOD wrote:

So basically you're saying the normal rule of thumb is that a player cannot come in on the small blind?

I think the reason for Liam Flood's ruling is that without it Seat 1 will have position on everyone at the table 2 hands in a row even though the seats to his left have been filled.

Could the 2 new players be dealt out for this hand, then the button passes to seat 4?

Edit: no forget that, I see why that couldnt work. Think seat2 bb on his own makes most sense.

NickyOD

In all the tournaments I've played around Ireland I keep hearing that "You cannot come in on the small blind" This isn't actually true. You absolutely can, it just doesn't happen very often because for it to happen the player getting knocked out has to be the BB and the player coming in has to take his seat before the next hand. So in the situation above Liam Flood's ruling is absolutely correct. The only situation where you cannot be dealt a hand is when you come in between button and small blind.

Here is the correct rule from the WSOP.

"67. Players going from a broken table to fill in seats assume the rights and responsibilities of that position. They can get the big blind, the small blind, or the button. The only place they cannot get a hand is betweent he smal blind and button.......".

Goodluck2me

yeah that absolutely correct, they can come into the small blind but only when the BB is knokced out and BEFORE the next hand starts.

DapperGent

So you knew the answer before you posted?

5starpool

In the Fitz this may have become bastardised but you never get moved to the small blind under any circumstances, and in the situation above seat 2 would have been BB on his own. I did get moved to the SB in the SE 200 game once though which I thought was a bit odd, but carried on regardless.

sendic

why not break the table where the blinds are missing and save yourself the bother?

NickyOD

DapperGent wrote:

So you knew the answer before you posted?

Like I said, in every tournament I've played I've been told you cannot come in on the small blind, then when the situation above happens there's all sorts of confusion as to what to do. I've see it done in many different ways, like having both players sit out 2 hands, or the way Bohsman suggested it. I would say 95% of poker players would not know what the right ruling is, (and plenty of TDs and dealers too) which is why I thought it was worth posting.

sendic wrote:

why not break the table where the blinds are missing and save yourself the bother?

Most venues break their tables in a preset order from one side of a room to the other. You usually know exactly which table will be broken next, something players are often completely oblivious too.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

Yeah and in the case of CPT they just play musical chairs and you take your seat when the music stops:)

NickyOD

Leonard Proud Prize wrote:

Yeah and in the case of CPT they just play musical chairs and you take your seat when the music stops:)

lol! I wanted to do it that way!!! Take one chair away and whoever doesn't get a seat is out of the tournament. also you must play what ever stack is at your new seat.

DapperGent

NickyOD wrote:

I would say 95% of poker players would not know what the right ruling is, (and plenty of TDs and dealers too) which is why I thought it was worth posting.

Definately worth posting (I for one didn't know the answer), I just don't get why it was posted as a question.

cardshark202

Ok

Marq

the Fitz's rule is being changed on March 1st so that you can come in on the SB, but you can't come in between the button and the SB.

the other rule that is coming in on March 1st, and I'm sure you'll all be very happy about it (I am!) is that if you are not at the table when the hand is dealt, your hand is automatically dead.

PeakOutput

Marq wrote:

the Fitz's rule is being changed on March 1st so that you can come in on the SB, but you can't come in between the button and the SB.

the other rule that is coming in on March 1st, and I'm sure you'll all be very happy about it (I am!) is that if you are not at the table when the hand is dealt, your hand is automatically dead.

is that not a general rule everywhere????

if you are not at the seat when the button gets his second card your hand is dead?

i dont have great experience but why the need for different rules in different places?

bohsman

There are different rules in different places because there are no official rules, at this stage it would be near impossible to get all the poker rooms worldwide to agree on set rules.

mdwexford

its annoying when theres major differences in cash games like some places you dont post blinds and dont get a hand if you're not at the table and others you get dealt in and blinded like a tournament. also basic stuff like the under raise rule should be made standard everywhere.

bohsman

The reasoning behind not letting people in on the sb is that you should have to post both blinds to get the button, just a case of which is the lesser evil, allowing the person who posted both blinds to have the button twice or letting someone have the button after posting only the sb. Also if you dont let people in on the sb you shouldnt let people come in on the button.

tricky D

Marq wrote:

the other rule that is coming in on March 1st, and I'm sure you'll all be very happy about it (I am!) is that if you are not at the table when the hand is dealt, your hand is automatically dead.

Seated at the table, standing behind chair does not count. More black and white that way.