US: 3X09 Promo / Pre-Airing Discussion [**POSSIBLE SPOILERS**]

Snake Plisken

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBzqw05vLWo

Looks good!

Snake

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MOD EDIT: Please all pre-airing discussion of the episode to this thread!

Basq

You're here to watch WHAT DAMN IT!?! Tell me.... grrrrrr....! :mad:

So, 3 biggest mysteries will be revealed:

1. Where and how Jack got his tats.. and what they mean? Knowing US advertisements and how they hype - this'll probably be one!
2. What exactly happened the kids?
3. Why exactly they're in cages? Is it an experiment etc?

Just guesses though based on the promo...!

doonothing

ooo!
but didnt last week's promo show lots of stuff that didnt happen? juliet being carted off, kate and sawyer featuring etc? no? exploding buildin?
damn promos..

Interesting. So is this the actual group of Others, do you think?

I mean, was Benry not an Other as we had thought.

Zombrex

The writers have said there is supposed to be a big twist a few episodes in from the break that explains a lot that is going on. I hope it is this episode, because I must say everything is getting a bit silly, the writers need to ground the story back down a bit in reality, explain a few things.

Zombrex

Deleted User wrote:

Interesting. So is this the actual group of Others, do you think?

I mean, was Benry not an Other as we had thought.

It is just a guess, but because the plane had the Dharma logo on it, and because the writers keep harking on about how we have all missed something in the first episode (the captain of the plane?) and because the air hostess is now turning up with the Others, I would say the plane was people who were meant to come to the Island.

I think after the last two episodes it is clear that time travel is a major theme. Possibly the Others are attempting to alter the past, or attempting to send people back into the past, or that everyone on the Island is in the past but not realising it ...

stevejazzx

Wicknight wrote:

It is just a guess, but because the plane had the Dharma logo on it, and because the writers keep harking on about how we have all missed something in the first episode (the captain of the plane?) and because the air hostess is now turning up with the Others, I would say the plane was people who were meant to come to the Island.

I think after the last two episodes it is clear that time travel is a major theme. Possibly the Others are attempting to alter the past, or attempting to send people back into the past, or that everyone on the Island is in the past but not realising it ...

plane didn't have dharma logo on it..dismissed a long time ago by writers.
the shark did, not the plane!
also on the time travel thing, being doing some reading today and what is making sense more at moment is that desmond actually lived his past seeing into fututre visions of the island and not the other way, reliving the past from the future. So it was essentially a prophetic flashback which he subsequently forgot becasue of the whack he gets from the cricket bat.
That he travelled back in time isn't to be taken as cannon just yet. The stephen hawking book (ABHOT) was probably some classic misdirection by the wirters.

BopNiblets

Screw episode 9, I'm waiting to see Vincent come back in episode 10!

jor el

BopNiblets wrote:

Screw episode 9, I'm waiting to see Vincent come back in episode 10!

How in the name of God did you come up with that? You must have had absolutely nothing else to do last night Taking fan obsession to a new level.

stevejaxx wrote:

also on the time travel thing, being doing some reading today and what is making sense more at moment is that desmond actually lived his past seeing into fututre visions of the island and not the other way, reliving the past from the future. So it was essentially a prophetic flashback which he subsequently forgot becasue of the whack he gets from the cricket bat.

Hmm, I'm struggling to get my head around this explanation and I'm not sure I'm following you.

You're saying that at some point in the past, Desmond had visions of the future, him leaving Penny, joining the Army, and then all the happenings on the Island. For some reason he didn't act on them, then gets hit by a baseball bat (when in fact he had visioned the bar tender being hit) and forgets all about the visions. Then, after being ejected from the exploding hatch it all comes flooding back, he's remembering his past future visions and mistaking them for traveling back in time?

So last weeks flashbacks of Desmond were actually the future visions he saw, back at that time. Then he forgot it all after the bat incident. Now another blow to the head has brought those visions back and Desmond believes he was back in the past.

Something in that makes sense, but mostly it hurts my head. Given that this is 'Lost' after all, I'll not discount anything yet. The more I think about it though the more plausible it seems. I've spent 20 minutes writing this reply, at first I was completely disagreeing with you, now not quite so.

BopNiblets

Heh, I was just looking see if Vincent had an imdb entry, and he does! *high fives*

Then I noticed he's in an upcoming episode, and if you check it out, he's listed above Cheech Marin who must be guest starring, which I find hilarious, Vincent before Cheech! Hahaha!

Anyway, I've heard a few people say that Vincent is behind it all, the island, the mysteries, everything!
He's the leader of the Others/Alvar Hanso in dog form/Hypnotised Walt to think he owns him...

Best theories everrr.

stevejazzx

jor el wrote:

How in the name of God did you come up with that? You must have had absolutely nothing else to do last night Taking fan obsession to a new level.


Hmm, I'm struggling to get my head around this explanation and I'm not sure I'm following you.

You're saying that at some point in the past, Desmond had visions of the future, him leaving Penny, joining the Army, and then all the happenings on the Island. For some reason he didn't act on them, then gets hit by a baseball bat (when in fact he had visioned the bar tender being hit) and forgets all about the visions. Then, after being ejected from the exploding hatch it all comes flooding back, he's remembering his past future visions and mistaking them for traveling back in time?

So last weeks flashbacks of Desmond were actually the future visions he saw, back at that time. Then he forgot it all after the bat incident. Now another blow to the head has brought those visions back and Desmond believes he was back in the past.

Something in that makes sense, but mostly it hurts my head. Given that this is 'Lost' after all, I'll not discount anything yet. The more I think about it though the more plausible it seems. I've spent 20 minutes writing this reply, at first I was completely disagreeing with you, now not quite so.

yeah it's very confusing but the reason people are looking at this way is

first option

desmond goes back and relives and actually changes his past, this require time travel - he is sent back in time

second option

doesn't require time travel, in his past (his flashback) he has visions of his futre on the island and thinks he has already lived them but is in fact just seeing his future (somehow?) this requires desmond to be some kinda psychic

third option

smokey induced a memory were desmond believes he's back in the real world before the island and is told by that old woman that he can't change anything and must go to the island, this might be smokeys way of trying to curtail desmonds new found power

edit: confirmed by podcast to be option 2 -

stevejazzx

It looks tonights episode will give very little away
Theres a spoiler synopsis posted on the fuselage -
episode 10 on the other hand features

rousseau, dr. candle, patchy and sayid and kate are in a some kind of hatch/room with a lot of guns

Sinfonia

stevejazzx wrote:

edit: confirmed by podcast to be option 2 -

What did they say on the podcast?

TBH I'm not liking this prospect at all...

If Desmond is (and apparently has been for a long time) a psychic,
and he knew, as the old lady had told him,
that he would have to turn the failsafe key,
because if the button is not pushed, everyone dies,
then why would he agree to Locke's idea of letting the button go?
Only to figure out from the pages from the Pearl, and his own memories,
that his negligence in button pushing caused flight 815 to crash onto the island??????

stevejazzx

sumguy wrote:

TBH I'm not liking this prospect at all...

If Desmond is (and apparently has been for a long time) a psychic,
and he knew, as the old lady had told him,
that he would have to turn the failsafe key,
because if the button is not pushed, everyone dies,
then why would he agree to Locke's idea of letting the button go?
Only to figure out from the pages from the Pearl, and his own memories,
that his negligence in button pushing caused flight 815 to crash onto the island??????

becasue after he gets hit by the bat the doesn't remeber that until he is just about to turn the failsafe key in the hatch so when he going over the button thing with locke he had no memory of the that time in 1996 when hed had his prophetic flashforwards to the island he probably the flashback because he got closer to the core of the em field when he climbed down to the failsafe , it is commonly theoried that em field is causing these visions

Sinfonia

the flashback happens just after he turns the key,
also how has he now regained psychic abilities??

And although during the flashback, his memories of the island seem to come from small triggers, and flashes before his eyes, what about remembering the very next day? The song, the match, Jimmy with the cricket bat?

stevejazzx

SumGuy wrote:

the flashback happens just after he turns the key,

wrong...after his flashback we see him turning the key it was the first thing i checked...

sumguy wrote:

also how has he now regained psychic abilities??

probably after being locked in hatch for 3 years close to the source, and now its even stronger becasue he has turned the failsafe and was exposed to it on a much larger scale

sumguy wrote:

And although during the flashback, his memories of the island seem to come from small triggers, and flashes before his eyes, what about remembering the very next day? The song, the match, Jimmy with the cricket bat?

OK....heres how the wirters are saying it is

back in 1996 he has flashes of his future including the Island, he can see things that have not yet happened but he thinks they have, this is down to him being psychic or him having already lived through this experience before (the time loop theory) but not down to time travel. If he is psychic he only thinks he s remembering, or else heactually has lived through it before, and is reliving again it but not after time travelling there from the Island, if he is reliving it in that flashback then he was reliving it then, back in 1996...

Sinfonia

stevejazzx wrote:

wrong...after his flashback we see him turning the key it was the first thing i checked...

just checked it again there
we actually see him turn the key both before and after the flashback, so that's ambiguous

stevejazzx wrote:

probably after being locked in hatch for 3 years close to the source, and now its even stronger becasue he has turned the failsafe and was exposed to it on a much larger scale

the source of what? the electromagnetism? if that is what is causing the psychic abilities, then how does that explain the psychic abilities in 1996? he was nowhere near it then

stevejazzx wrote:

OK....heres how the wirters are saying it is

back in 1996 he has flashes of his future including the Island, he can see things that have not yet happened but he thinks they have, this is down to him being psychic or him having already lived through this experience before (the time loop theory) but not down to time travel. If he is psychic he only thinks he s remembering, or else heactually has lived through it before, and is reliving again it but not after time travelling there from the Island, if he is reliving it in that flashback then he was reliving it then, back in 1996...savvy?

So, what they're saying is,

In 1996, Desmond had premonitions of the future (we don't know how or why, maybe from the concussion), but believed that perhaps he had actually lived them and had come back in time.

There was an old woman in the jewellery shop who has a more thorough understanding of the universe, and who can see the future (even though she speaks to Desmond as if he had come back in time, she seemed confused/surprised when he asked for the ring, and said "This is wrong. You don't buy the ring. You have second thoughts; you walk right out that door.")

So Desmond eventually becomes convinced that he has no choice other than to follow his "path", and breaks it off with Penny.
Upon seeing that he was correct about the match, etc. he for some reason sees this as a reason by which he can still change things, but then by warning the barman to duck, he gets hit in the head with a cricket bat.

After this, I assume, he forgets about the whole episode, no longer has premonitions, joins the army (to impress Mr. Widmore?) and all the while tries to get back in touch with Penny, however, Mr. Widmore keeps all of his letters to her...
Eventually his path leads him to the island, where he pushes the button, accidentally runs the clock down one day, the plane crashes, and then eventually he and Locke decide to run the clock down, but he figures out that it's all real, and turns the failsafe key.

When he wakes up in the jungle, having seemingly just remembered that he once had premonitions, he says "Let me go back one more time. I'll do it right. I'll do it right this time. I'm sorry, Penny. I'll change it. I'll change it."
And now, for some reason, which hasn't been explained, he can now again see certain future events at certain times.

---

So is that more or less what the explanation is?

The part with the old lady: "This is wrong. You don't buy the ring. You have second thoughts; you walk right out that door."

And when Desmond says: "Let me go back one more time"

To me, don't really seem to fit with the idea of that being the first time that he has lived those two days.
Maybe the language is just ambiguous to mess with viewer's heads? If so, it worked.

stevejazzx

SumGuy wrote:

just checked it again there
we actually see him turn the key both before and after the flashback, so that's ambiguous



the source of what? the electromagnetism? if that is what is causing the psychic abilities, then how does that explain the psychic abilities in 1996? he was nowhere near it then



So, what they're saying is,

In 1996, Desmond had premonitions of the future (we don't know how or why, maybe from the concussion), but believed that perhaps he had actually lived them and had come back in time.

There was an old woman in the jewellery shop who has a more thorough understanding of the universe, and who can see the future (even though she speaks to Desmond as if he had come back in time, she seemed confused/surprised when he asked for the ring, and said "This is wrong. You don't buy the ring. You have second thoughts; you walk right out that door.")

So Desmond eventually becomes convinced that he has no choice other than to follow his "path", and breaks it off with Penny.
Upon seeing that he was correct about the match, etc. he for some reason sees this as a reason by which he can still change things, but then by warning the barman to duck, he gets hit in the head with a cricket bat.

After this, I assume, he forgets about the whole episode, no longer has premonitions, joins the army (to impress Mr. Widmore?) and all the while tries to get back in touch with Penny, however, Mr. Widmore keeps all of his letters to her...
Eventually his path leads him to the island, where he pushes the button, accidentally runs the clock down one day, the plane crashes, and then eventually he and Locke decide to run the clock down, but he figures out that it's all real, and turns the failsafe key.

When he wakes up in the jungle, having seemingly just remembered that he once had premonitions, he says "Let me go back one more time. I'll do it right. I'll do it right this time. I'm sorry, Penny. I'll change it. I'll change it."
And now, for some reason, which hasn't been explained, he can now again see certain future events at certain times.

---

So is that more or less what the explanation is?

The part with the old lady: "This is wrong. You don't buy the ring. You have second thoughts; you walk right out that door."

And when Desmond says: "Let me go back one more time"

To me, don't really seem to fit with the idea of that being the first time that he has lived those two days.
Maybe the language is just ambiguous to mess with viewer's heads? If so, it worked.

hmmmmm

right read your post and you have made some excellent points...now I'm confused...

right the old woman: She must either be some kinda oracle like in the Matrix..yawn! or Hanso/Dharma type keeping desmon on track making sure he gets to the island, actually wicknights idea about them(hanso) travelling back in time to match up certain criteria to ensuire the world doesn't end seem s more reasonable to me now

desmond asking to go back..yeah this seems to mean that went back first time but how do we explain him travelling back into the future, surely getting hit with a bat doesn't do that?

it very messy.... I thought I was track but now...i don't know

Sinfonia

stevejazzx wrote:

right the old woman: She must either be some kinda oracle like in the Matrix..yawn! or Hanso/Dharma type keeping desmon on track making sure he gets to the island, actually wicknights idea about them(hanso) travelling back in time to match up certain criteria to ensuire the world doesn't end seem s more reasonable to me now

Yeah...maybe somehow they knew that Desmond went back, so they sent old lady back to 'course correct' him.


Here's what really confuses me though...The following is what I thought happened, but I don't know why:

Desmond turns the key.
He goes back in time (I don't know why).
Something feels wrong, but he can't figure out what it is.
He doesn't remember the island or anything subsequent to where he now is.
Certain things remind him - The microwave, 1:08 on the clock, the delivery man ("package for 8 15").
But he doesn't fully remember until he meets Charlie.
Now he remembers that he was on the island, pushing the button.
Not only that, he remembers living these days before, and predicts the rain, the match result and Jimmy with the cricket bat (albeit on the wrong night).
Jeweller woman tells Desmond he has to do these certain things to keep on his path. (I don't understand that whole scene - any deeper than the obvious I mean)

Then he changes something, gets hit in the head with a cricket bat, and wakes up in the jungle.
For some reason (I don't know why), he's back in the present, naked in the jungle, wishing to go back.
Also, he now (I don't know why) can predict the future.

Basically, that's what I thought after watching the episode. Either that or it was a dream, but I refuse to believe that, because it would be shit and a complete waste of an episode.
I don't know what to believe now.

stevejazzx

SumGuy wrote:

Yeah...maybe somehow they knew that Desmond went back, so they sent old lady back to 'course correct' him.


Here's what really confuses me though...The following is what I thought happened, but I don't know why:

Desmond turns the key.
He goes back in time (I don't know why).
Something feels wrong, but he can't figure out what it is.
He doesn't remember the island or anything subsequent to where he now is.
Certain things remind him - The microwave, 1:08 on the clock, the delivery man ("package for 8 15").
But he doesn't fully remember until he meets Charlie.
Now he remembers that he was on the island, pushing the button.
Not only that, he remembers living these days before, and predicts the rain, the match result and Jimmy with the cricket bat (albeit on the wrong night).
Jeweller woman tells Desmond he has to do these certain things to keep on his path. (I don't understand that whole scene - any deeper than the obvious I mean)

Then he changes something, gets hit in the head with a cricket bat, and wakes up in the jungle.
For some reason (I don't know why), he's back in the present, naked in the jungle, wishing to go back.
Also, he now (I don't know why) can predict the future.

Basically, that's what I thought after watching the episode. Either that or it was a dream, but I refuse to believe that, because it would be shit and a complete waste of an episode.
I don't know what to believe now.

No, I think you're right the way you've interpreted the episode I interpreted it exactly the same way it's just uncertain as to how he got back into his life at that point in time 1996 and then uncertain as to how he back to the Island. It will be interesting to see how the writers explain it in the fututre...