What is legal to download?

cate

I am wondering what the law is in Ireland regarding downloading of TELEVISION programmes eg: Lost, 24, ER etc... from US or Canadian sites?
I know that it is illegal to download movies, games, software, music. But what about TV shows? It is legal to cap a show once it has been aired in Australia - what about here?

Can anyone suggest where I can look to find out the laws regarding tv show downloads?

Thanks

Creamy Goodness

the only things that you can legally download are things that aren't copyrighted or you have a licence to download.

tv shows that you mentioned do not fall under this category and fall under the same category as movies/games/music/etc.

Capt'n Midnight

cate wrote:

It is legal to cap a show once it has been aired in Australia

Link to back that up please.

At present uploaders are targeted by the copyright holders, downloaders aren't - but just because they aren't actively prosecuting downloaders doesn't make it legal.

Copyright is automatic when the work is fixed.
Broadcasts are copyrighted for 50 years after date of first broadcast. But Sir Cliff Richard and co. are trying to extend it.
IIRC Broadcast does not cover stuff in cinemas.

So > 50 years only - rule of thumb if it's in colour you can't download legally.

With PVR and VCR's you can get around copyright by time delay viewing, the device records the broadcast as it's sent live, technically you are supposed to wipe the videos after you watch them.

Redisle

I would remove that link if i were you... it most definetly does not just search legal content..

Ghost Train

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

At present uploaders are targeted by the copyright holders, downloaders aren't - but just because they aren't actively prosecuting downloaders doesn't make it legal.

Is this because it's the person who is providing the copyright material is commiting the offence and somebody receiving the material for their own use are not commiting an offence. I've just been reading through the copyright and related rights act 2000, and can't see anything that would suggest buying or receiving copyright material for personal use is an offence. Can't see anything suggesting a downloader is doing something illegal, but it's a big document so maybe I'm wrong

Offences: Copyright
140.-(1) A person who, without the consent of the copyright owner-
(a) makes for sale, rental or loan,
(b) sells, rents or lends, or offers or exposes for sale, rental or loan,
(c) imports into the State, otherwise than for his or her private and domestic use,
(d) in the course of a business, trade or profession, has in his or her possession, custody or control, or makes available to the public, or
(e) otherwise than in the course of a business, trade or profession, makes available to the public to such an extent as to prejudice the interests of the owner of the copyright,
a copy of a work which is, and which he or she knows or has reason to believe is, an infringing copy of the work, shall be guilty of an offence.

the thing is with torrents and p2p software the downloader becomes the uploader, can understand why this would be an offence, but if something is posted for download somewhere, is downloading it (copyright material) for personal use actually illegal?

Orion

Yes it is. Bottom line - if it's commercially available and you didn't pay for it then you can be fairly well assured you've broken the law. In fact, in Ireland you are breaking the law by taking a copy of a CD that you bought in HMV and putting it on your iPOD.

I'm away for the rest of the weekend so if nobody else has posted the actual law relating to that I'll try to find it again on Monday. Or else you can just read Karlin Lillington's article in today's (Friday) Irish Times.

Nick_oliveri

Most would argue that uploading a number of blocks of ones and zeros (non-physical data) on a torrent program before you finish the download and stop seeding (without uploading the entire content to one user) isn't in breach of copyright.

I may be i'll informed here, but could somebody show me independent research of sales affected by piracy of mp3's and films compared with when piracy wasn't so "rampant".

Basically what im looking for is a chart of CD/DVD/VHS sales from 199(*) to now showing a dramatic slump as the years went by.

I dont believe TV show downloading is piracy. AnyTV show that is good enough makes it onto our screens eventually. Why watch it in anyone elses time other than your own? I mean, look at the Lost forum!!

Ads have feck all effect on an audience. Demand has an effect. That reminds me, i hate that bitch's voice off the Sunsilk ad! What a cnut! Also, ads are there to pay for channel costs. Cut out the middleman, download a tv show.....no channel costs!! Look at how SKY and 4OD are (more than likely) capitilising on this! Im not sure if they apply DRM to the shows though. If they do, they are the same as the record companies, untrusthworthy, paranoid and greedy.

Although maybe i would argue that advertising's effect is gender specific, but thats another thread! Sorry for rambling.

cormie

How can sky+ get away with it? That whole service is promoting the recording of copyrighted material, right?

Macros, are you sure it's illegal to copy a song to an MP3 player here? I thought making a copy for your own personal use is ok as long as you don't distribute it? Think of backing up CD's etc, I thought "oh it's a backup of the original I have" was always a viable excuse;) ?

Anti

I'm sure i posted here earlier on about [insert link here] ( legal torrent site )


I sense a conspiricyie thingy. YEs you hearfd me "

Nick_oliveri

Anti wrote:

I'm sure i posted here earlier

Hey dude if you posted it earlier i wouldn't suggest posting it again. THis could be seen as pushing your luck. I dont want to see you banned. Do urself a favour and edit your post!

Ghost Train

Macros42 wrote:

Yes it is. Bottom line - if it's commercially available and you didn't pay for it then you can be fairly well assured you've broken the law. In fact, in Ireland you are breaking the law by taking a copy of a CD that you bought in HMV and putting it on your iPOD.

I'm away for the rest of the weekend so if nobody else has posted the actual law relating to that I'll try to find it again on Monday. Or else you can just read Karlin Lillington's article in today's (Friday) Irish Times.

I'd be interested to read the article that says this, relating to the ipod comment again the copyright & related rights act 2000 seem to suggest it's okay to make a "incidental copy" which is technically required for listening as long as it's lawfully available to you, ie. you paid for it. Of course you can't sell on the copy etc

Miscellaneous Matters Relating to Copyright
87.-(1) The copyright in a work is not infringed by the making of a transient and incidental copy of that work which is technically required for the viewing of or listening to the work by a member of the public to whom a copy of the work is lawfully made available.
(2) Where a copy, which would otherwise be an infringing copy, is made under this section and is subsequently sold, rented or lent, or offered or exposed for sale, rental or loan, or otherwise made available to the public, it shall be deemed to be an infringing copy for those purposes and for all subsequent purposes

relating to time shifting (fixation of a broadcast) it's covered clearly in the act as Capt'n Midnight suggested so no problem with it in ireland

101.-(1) The making for private and domestic use of a fixation of a broadcast or cable programme solely for the purpose of enabling it to be viewed or listened to at another time or place shall not infringe the copyright in the broadcast or cable programme or in any work included in such a broadcast or cable programme.
(2) Subject to subsection (3), the making by an establishment for private and domestic use of a fixation of a broadcast or cable programme solely for the purpose of enabling it to be viewed or listened to at another time or place shall not infringe the copyright in the broadcast or cable programme or in any work included in such a broadcast or cable programme.
(3) The Minister may specify by order establishments for the purposes of this section.
(4) Where a fixation which would otherwise be an infringing copy is made under this section and is subsequently sold, rented or (otherwise than to a person's family member or friend for private and domestic purposes) lent, or offered or exposed for sale, rental or loan, or otherwise made available to the public, it shall be deemed to be an infringing copy for those purposes and for all subsequent purposes.

it's also interesting how lending to a friend is okay as defined in the act again under offenses section 140, if you own the recording or have lawful right to it

(2) In this section ''loan'' means a loan for reward and in particular does not include a loan to a family member or friend for private and domestic use, and ''lends'' shall be construed accordingly.

if anyone can clear up, if you buy a pirate dvd for example is it the seller who is breaking the law and committing the offense or are you "stealing" too like the dvd makers advertise? Morally it could be seen as stealing, and i'm not trying to justify things, but legally is it an offence for the buyer (they didn't make the infringing copy/and won't be selling infriging material), clearly it is an offense by the seller

Orion

cormie wrote:

How can sky+ get away with it? That whole service is promoting the recording of copyrighted material, right?

Macros, are you sure it's illegal to copy a song to an MP3 player here? I thought making a copy for your own personal use is ok as long as you don't distribute it? Think of backing up CD's etc, I thought "oh it's a backup of the original I have" was always a viable excuse;) ?

I'm positive. The copyright & related rights act 2000 is only one law that relates to this. Essentially in Ireland it's illegal to make a digital duplication of anything copyrighted even for personal use. Now of course this is an impossible law to enforce and if IRMA decided to take Joe Bloggs off the street and sue him for using an iPOD they'd be laughed out of court but that doesn't change the fact that the law is there.

I'm getting in the car in 2 minutes and won't be back til tomorrow evening - I'll find a backup link for this then.

[edit]Here's a DRI article about it. No backup documentation there either but I will find it.

Ciaran500

Anti wrote:

I'm sure i posted here earlier on about **( legal torrent site )


I sense a conspiricyie thingy. YEs you hearfd me "

Search for something illegal and you'll find out why

Redisle

Anti wrote:

I'm sure i posted here earlier on about xxxxxxxxx( legal torrent site )


I sense a conspiricyie thingy. YEs you hearfd me "

Lol anti i think your post was deleted for a reason.. see my reply above.. definetly NOT a legal torrent site.. a good site- yes, legal - no.

I would stop posting that site unless you want to be banned

irlrobins

Anti wrote:

I'm sure i posted here earlier on about [insert link here] ( legal torrent site )


I sense a conspiricyie thingy. YEs you hearfd me "

Post it one more time Anti and I'll give you a lengthy ban.

RuggieBear

also make sure you don't post any links to google. lots of illegal content there.

filetype:torrent *

challengemaster

Yes it would be illegal to download tv shows...

however, you can get some nice Linux ISO's legally...:D

Ghost Train

Macros42 wrote:

I'm positive. The copyright & related rights act 2000 is only one law that relates to this. Essentially in Ireland it's illegal to make a digital duplication of anything copyrighted even for personal use. Now of course this is an impossible law to enforce and if IRMA decided to take Joe Bloggs off the street and sue him for using an iPOD they'd be laughed out of court but that doesn't change the fact that the law is there.

I'm getting in the car in 2 minutes and won't be back til tomorrow evening - I'll find a backup link for this then.

[edit]Here's a DRI article about it. No backup documentation there either but I will find it.

Thanks
Yeah you're right that its saying that, or somebody from digital rights ireland says that. But can't find anything that officially supports the statement and I'm surprised by what I'm reading in the copyright act, as it seems to imply the opposite, clearly says you can back up data discs etc too. Maybe I'm not reading it right, or there's eu law that applies. IRMAs website only mentions the copyright act

The Copyright and Related Rights Act 2000 governs copyright in Ireland. It was enacted, not only to update Irish law but also to bring into force in Ireland numerous EU Directives. These Directives are in force in all countries of the EU thus making it easier to enforce copyrights throughout the EU.

I'd have no problem infringing material etc being seized, but if its for personal use can the person who receives the material be held liable for copyright infrigement, at the moment I can only see that people who distribute/upload/sell are breaking the law I guess i need to do more reading

Ghost Train

Okay to follow on heres some more info from the piracyisacrime.com website
english, but similar to irish law
leaflet
COPYRIGHT THEFT.
A summary of the law relating
to copyright theft.

...
Downloading and file sharing
Downloading may be unlawful and in some instances
it will be an offence if the intention is to use the
downloaded copyright material e.g. film or music
for unlawful purposes such as distributing copies
to others.
Sharing of copyright material without permission
may be unlawful because the author of the material
(writer, film distributor etc) has not given permission
for the material to be distributed. Distributing
unauthorised material e.g. films via file sharing may
be an offence. However, licensed peer-to-peer/file
sharing software is legal. Many companies use it
internally for file sharing...

it goes on the state what is an offence etc

it also says

Offences
A person commits an offence who carries out
the following without the permission of the
copyright owner:
• making unauthorised copies e.g. burning films onto
DVD-Rs;

can't see any text that says this is strictly an offence, unless your intention is to distribute etc

so i would say downloading copyright material is not strictly an offence, should a user be liable to make sure everything they download is being hosted by the copyright holder or not for public viewing? Supporting piracy is bad, but people distributing(including torrents) the material are the ones commiting an offence, not the downloader

this ain't legal advice just my opinion, from the info available

Capt'n Midnight

cormie wrote:

How can sky+ get away with it? That whole service is promoting the recording of copyrighted material, right?

You can only record stuff on your subscription, so it's only suff you've already paid for. Also you can't watch stuff that isn't on your current sub - even if recorded on a different sub. AFAIK you can't copy it off the HDD to watch elsewhere or share with someone. Pretty much what the copyright holders desire.

Any site where people can upload stuff without it being checked almost certainly has illegal stuff on it.