Ethical shopping anyone?

r3nu4l

I've posted the same thread on boards.org.uk

Massive supermarket chains such as Tesco are getting a lot of criticism for their treatment of suppliers, massive profits etc but who is really to blame? The shop or the customer?

Certain celebrity chefs are amongst others who clamour for us to buy from our local butcher and vegetable shop. I agree, this is a great idea...but by the time I get home from work my local vegetable shop, butcher, baker and candlestick makers are all closed for the evening.

What about the weekend? I could shop there then couldn't I? Well, I could walk down the road to my butcher, buy my meat, walk up the hill, around the corner to the veg shop, buy my vegetables, cart my bags three streets away to the local baker...

...but where do I get my honey from? Salt? Pepper? None of these shops sell them. My local convenience store charges way over the odds so what do I do? Go to Tesco?

That is part of the problem. The other part is my salary. My wages, like my time, only stretch so far, hence the supermarkets offer convenience as well as better prices. Over 40% of our joint salaries goes on our mortgage, we can't really afford to go spending money in shops that charge us twice the price of the supermarkets for some items

Don't get me wrong I'd love to buy ethically but for now I'm afraid I'm a slave to the grocery giants.

Opinions?

InFront

What specifically are the ethical problems associated with shopping at Tesco and other Supermarkets? And what is to say that the local retailer is not treating his suppliers badly/ making a disproportionate profit on sale of goods, etc?

r3nu4l

InFront wrote:

What specifically are the ethical problems associated with shopping at Tesco and other Supermarkets?

Can you not think of any yourself?
How about flying vegetables such as tomatos in from Israel and other veg from other countries? Global warming and Carbon offset etc?
Claims by suppliers that they are being squeezed hard and bullied by large supermarket chains while the same chains make billions in profit every year.

InFront wrote:

And what is to say that the local retailer is not treating his suppliers badly/ making a disproportionate profit on sale of goods, etc?

There is nothing to say this but I haven't heard these complaints from farmers onthe radio! Perhaps the media are more interested in going after the big guns rather than the small fry but again I've yet to hear a complaint of this nature.

btw, I'm not making judgements here, I'm wondering what other peoples opinions are, so far you haven't offered any C'mon, play the game.

InFront

I read a statistic that as a consumer we spend about 20% of our incomes on food, so certainly this is an important issue.
The only thing is the question of do we really want these low-cost supermarkets to leave the Irish market? How would that influence inflation here? And how much more money is the consumer willing to spend on quality of goods, as well as the ethical questions attached to the supermarkets.

There was talk of Tesco being 'ruined' a few years ago when the overcharging 'revelations' came, but it didn't really amount to anything. Unfortunately, if consumers don't react when it hits them personally, I don't think theyre going to react when it hits somebody in the third world personally or damages the environment, etc.

In terms of Israel, just like how the anti-apartheid movement cut off and discredited South Africa in the 1980s, a boycott is useful. But I don't think it will ever have the effect it had on SA. You'd nearly have to start boycotting America if you really want Israel to feel it.

In terms of global warming, local corner shops import goods from abroad, just not directly. Every small shop supports this trade individually, but there are far many more small shops than supermarkets.
However you're definitely right in saying that they do tend to be better supporters of domestic produce, and that is something we should definitely support.

One thing that really annoys me - about all shops - is the amount of packaging they use on goods. It's often completely unncessary, and it would benefit everybody if they cut down on it.

r3nu4l

InFront wrote:

One thing that really annoys me - about all shops - is the amount of packaging they use on goods. It's often completely unncessary, and it would benefit everybody if they cut down on it.

There's a case in point, my local Tesco in the UK no longer has loose tomatoes in stock anymore but plenty of packaged ones. I asked is this policy and was told it wasn't but I have yet to see a single loose tomato in the store...while my local fruit and veg shop has plenty of loose and packaged mushrooms. Hmmm!

Archeron

InFront wrote:

One thing that really annoys me - about all shops - is the amount of packaging they use on goods. It's often completely unncessary, and it would benefit everybody if they cut down on it.

100% agreement on this. I saw a show a while ago which showed Scandinavian supermarkets who had a recycling bay beside their bag packing area. You took off any excess packaging you didnt want, and put it to be recycled in designated bins. That should be implemented here. I personally would be happy to buy cereal without the cardboard box for example.

As regards the ethical purchase, I openly state that I would be happy to pay (within reason) substantially more for products such as Fair Trade, and where possible I do. However, these products are not exactly far reaching into Irelands marketplaces, and it just simply isnt an option for, as someone else said, a person who works full time and for whom the shopping is simply something that MUST be done.. If Fairtrade expanded into many other products, and place them in ready supply, I would be more than happy to buy them.
With the glut of different products from all over the world available to us, and in conjunction with that, the opening of chains like Lidl, is bringing us products from seemingly all over the world, its difficult to know what comes from where, whats ethical and what isnt. I have only recently began to pay attention to the contents of the actual food, and to research them for ethics would prove a little too time consuming. I would happily pay in the price, the cost for ethical companies to brand themselves and promote themselves better in Ireland.
As the giant superdupermarket in the Simpsons says, "welcome to Monstromart, where shopping is a baffling ordeal".

Blisterman

About shipping tomatoes from Isreal.
I read recently, that it actually takes more energy to grow tomatoes in Ireland, than it does to ship them from Isreal, as for a lot of the year, the tomatoes have to be grown in artificially heated greenhouses.

simu

r3nu4l wrote:

There's a case in point, my local Tesco in the UK no longer has loose tomatoes in stock anymore but plenty of packaged ones. I asked is this policy and was told it wasn't but I have yet to see a single loose tomato in the store...while my local fruit and veg shop has plenty of loose and packaged mushrooms. Hmmm!

Irish supermarkets are pretty bad for excess packaging too but I don't expect to see a change until a Government levy on packaging similar to the plastic bags one is brought in.

InFront

About shipping tomatoes from Isreal.
I read recently, that it actually takes more energy to grow tomatoes in Ireland, than it does to ship them from Isreal, as for a lot of the year, the tomatoes have to be grown in artificially heated greenhouses.

That sounds about right. But that's putting that particular environmental concern on a par with immediate human rights.

However, we should be concerned about both. If we are, perhaps we should stop eating tomatoes out of season altogether. The whole thing is very personal anyway.

The Fair Trade/ third World Trade thing is interesting because it presents a conflict of interests between environmental concerns and global poverty. Third world countries are the most dependent on foreign agricultural exports to survive, despite the huge anti-competition tarriffs.
Do we want fairer trade or do we want Irish produce and a cleaner environement?

is_that_so

Blisterman wrote:

About shipping tomatoes from Israel.
I read recently, that it actually takes more energy to grow tomatoes in Ireland, than it does to ship them from Israel, as for a lot of the year, the tomatoes have to be grown in artificially heated greenhouses.

Yes there was also a piece on Morning Ireland this morning about flowers. One third come from Kenya and the same thing applies. It is far cheaper to produce flowers under natural light than in Holland.
I think there is a danger of applying overly simplistic logic to everything in this argument.

vesp

is_that_so wrote:

Yes there was also a piece on Morning Ireland this morning about flowers. One third come from Kenya and the same thing applies. It is far cheaper to produce flowers under natural light than in Holland.

It is also cheaper to produce flowers in Kenya, and fly them to Europe, rather than paying European levels of wages, or worrying about health and safety legislation or social insurance costs or maternity leave for your workers.

simu

Well, flowers are a pointless luxury really - we're gonna have to get a bit frugal to save the ole planet! But yeah,trying to shop ethically is a minefield with production chains being so long and information lacking. It's frustrating.