A 1/2 Hand

ianmc38

This hand has been annoying me since I played it.

1/2 Tribeca. Villain was something like 25/9/1.1 over 90 hands. Hasn't done anything extraordinary. The details of the hands may be a little off.

I open for 8 in EP with ATo. Villain is the only caller on the button.

Flop (20)

9 5 2 rainbow.

I make a CB of 12 or so. Villain calls.

Turn (44)

T

I bet 35. Villain quickly calls.

River (114)

T

I bet 50 ish. Villain shoves for another 120 or so.

Call or fold?

El Stuntman

I can see why you this hand annoyed you

his PF call likely indicates lowly PP, all other action indicates he hit his set

bah, I might still call :cool:

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

Lafortezza

I don't think overpairs generally wait for the river before raising, they usually pop it on the turn. I might check the turn and see what villain does.
You've hit a pair on the turn but if you bet and get raised what kind of hand does villain have that you beat? So I think I check the turn a reasonable % of the time.
As played call river.

Ste05

As played I call, if he hit his set on the flop it's just a cooler. I can't see how it bothered you so much...

BTW this isn't a great flop for a cont. bet, especially OOP.... I'd have checked and see what happened, probably check folded to a bet, but depends on history I suppose.

ianmc38

Ste05 wrote:

BTW this isn't a great flop for a cont. bet, especially OOP.... I'd have checked and see what happened, probably check folded to a bet, but depends on history I suppose.

If I had an overpair why wouldn't I bet this flop? If I'm raising preflop, I'm rarely check-folding on the flop. I think this is the perfect flop for a CB.

Gholimoli

i would often check the turn here for pot control.
as played i would call the shove.
if you were not prepared to call his shove then betting 50 on the river was a mistake.

Hectorjelly

That board is fine for a continuation bet, its not just pairs that call you preflop, and if you check you cant call a bet.

I would check the turn, you dont want to play that big a pot.

The river sucks, as it improves your hand but cant really improve your opponents unless he is ahead of you. He definitely does not have an overpair here, unless he realises that his JJ is no good and has decided to turn it into a bluff. I doubt anyone at 12 has that level of sophistication. On the river there are only three hands he can have

A full house,
A worse ten,
A bluff

I think the first is the most likely, for him to have a worse ten he would of had to floated the flop unpaired, and hit the case ten, which is pretty unlikely. A bluff is slightly more likely though as he may consider the ten a scare card for you, and you bet so small on the river. In fact I dont really like your bet on the river because you are giving him enough rope to push, but you cant really call an all in happilly. I think its a fold because his play is exactly consistant with a full house, allthough I certainly wouldnt be happy about it. If I had any indication that he may be bluffing, if his timing was off or I had pissed him off recently in any way I would call.

ianmc38

My biggest mistake in the hand was betting the turn. I dont know why I did.

On the river I timed right down and made a crying call. The reasons I called were

1. I felt my hand had an element of disguise about it, as he couldn't really put me on a ten the way the hand was played out.
2. I thought if he was bluffing, then it was a great card for him to bluff.
3. I was getting a pretty good price to call.

He showed 66 and my hand was good, but after the hand I thought I should have folded as his line looks exactly like a flopped set that boated up on the river...

Gholimoli

ianmc38 wrote:

My biggest mistake in the hand was betting the turn. I dont know why I did.

On the river I timed right down and made a crying call. The reasons I called were

2. I thought if he was bluffing, then it was a great card for him to bluff.

the T on the river was not a good card for him to bluff at all IMO.
had the first T fell on the flop then i agree with you but cuz the first T fell on the turn then i dont think the second one is a good bluffing card.

ianmc38

Gholimoli wrote:

the T on the river was not a good card for him to bluff at all IMO.
had the first T fell on the flop then i agree with you but cuz the first T fell on the turn then i dont think the second one is a good bluffing card.

If we look at it from his point of view, I cant really like the ten on the river...

Gholimoli

ianmc38 wrote:

If we look at it from his point of view, I cant really like the ten on the river...

As HJ pointed out as well ,for you to believe that he has the T ,he would either have to playing TT ,or floating you on the flop with nothing .
Both of them are not likely.

El Stuntman

Gholimoli wrote:

As HJ pointed out as well ,for you to believe that he has the T ,he would either have to playing TT ,or floating you on the flop with nothing .
Both of them are not likely.

9Tsooted is believable

ianmc38

yeah I certainly didnt put him on a ten unless he had 9T

RoundTower

Gholimoli wrote:

i would often check the turn here for pot control.
as played i would call the shove.
if you were not prepared to call his shove then betting 50 on the river was a mistake.

I agree with checking the turn, you now have something you can showdown and it doesn't sound like he's a complete muppet who will call off his stack with much less. Not sure about the river though, you might get a little bit of value from A9 or 88 or something, but I think when he raises it is almost always a full house.

pok3rplaya

check turn, check turn, check turn,

robinlacey

as everyone has said,check the turn
also,i don't think raising ATo in ep is a good idea,and i think your cbet should be 15 or so

ianmc38

robinlacey wrote:

as everyone has said,check the turn
also,i don't think raising ATo in ep is a good idea,and i think your cbet should be 15 or so

Specifically it was UTG+1 and I play 6 max (should have included this info). For me, ATo is an auto-raise from that position and my CB size will vary from 1/2-full pot. They're rarely a fixed size.

And the turn check was horrendous alright!

phantom_lord

ianmc38 wrote:

Specifically it was UTG+1 and I play 6 max (should have included this info). For me, ATo is an auto-raise from that position and my CB size will vary from 1/2-full pot. They're rarely a fixed size.

And the turn check was horrendous alright!

ATo is an auto-raise for me too, just about the c-bets, I keep mine pretty much the same all the time regardless of how hard I hit, if i adjust it'd just be due to something like the texture of the board/number of ops.

e.g 8/9 into 12 pot with ak on a xxa/xxk/xxx flop, etc

is that a good or a bad thing?

fuzzbox

having seen the results its pretty easy for me to get this one right :-).

But I call, dudes at 1/2 dont tend to wait until the river to raise with a set.
9Ts is prolly the only hand that beats you here and I have to just pay that off (and even that hand would likely raise the turn).

robinlacey

ok i suppose given that flop texture the c-bet is alright,though i'd still prefer if it was a little bit bigger.
i still think raising ATo before the cutoff is a leak though,ATs is an auto raise but ATo is just too bad with 4 players left to speak,obviously some games i would raise it but it is far from standard.