QQ strategy for a 1/2 PLHE in jackpot.

ditpoker

This hand happened earlier tonight in the jackpot, nothing amazing about the result or anything, i win with QQ, but unsure of my strategy in the hand.

i'm one off the button with QQ and playing about 200 euro. guy to my right is fairly aggressive player who i have often seen play the 2-5 PLO game in the fitz and is clearly just waiting for the PLO game to open up (think his name is Paul Fish) is playing about 200 too. Victor from earlier position makes it 7, and paul (we'll call him paul) makes it 17. i make it 60 and its folded back around to paul who starts talking out loud about how he has me on "a big pair, probably not aces, has to be kings or queens, if i hit my ace i get all his chips... he has kings... go on, i'll call ya" and calls the 60.

flop is J 9 6 rainbow. paul checks, i check.

turn is 5, paul checks, i check.

river is a 2, paul checks, i check. he shows AQ, i show QQ and take the pot.

Later, myself and aodea were discussing the hand and we didnt really agree with my play. my thinking is, for all his talk about me on KK, he could very easily have KK himself, although i think he'd eventually bet the river with KK. Most of my thinking was that he was telling the truth and probably had a decent ace, and if an ace hits my QQ is in the muck. but equally, an under pair to my QQ is a possibility, so JJ 99 and 66 and killing me off the flop. i was porbably always gonna call a bet from him as he is quite agressive but if i lead the betting I think i'm only getting called if I am beat (with the SLIGHT exception of maybe AJ on that flop but i dont think so). If i bet to keep him from hitting the A i'm getting the same value anyway if he holds and betting takes away his bluffing possibility.

is my checking all the way ok? bet the river? bet the flop? thoughts? comments?

aodea

bet bet bet.

bet bet bet.

bet bet bet.

did i mention in my opinion at some stage you should bet?

i think the flop suggets you should bet.

turn oh id bet.

river i would prob have a cheeky bet...........

Phil gordon reckons bet with the best hand and bet with the worst hand or sumin along those lines and he has his own TV show.

ianmc38

Play the hand as if you had headphones on ie bet the flop

ditpoker

aodea wrote:

bet bet bet.

bet bet bet.

bet bet bet.

did i mention in my opinion at some stage you should bet?

i think the flop suggets you should bet.

turn oh id bet.

river i would prob have a cheeky bet...........

Phil gordon reckons bet with the best hand and bet with the worst hand or sumin along those lines and he has his own TV show.

yea yea, i got this all the way home from you... pipe down so others may reply!

EDIT: ok, i bet 50 on the flop and he goes all in... now what!?

ditpoker

ianmc38 wrote:

Play the hand as if you had headphones on ie bet the flop

i did have headphones on, but he was REALLY loud... when i bet the flop, IF he pushes do i have to call?

Goodluck2me

i think it would be hard to get awy from, but if he raises you then thats one thing but if you check it down and the river is a KIng or Ace then where do you stand? bet the flop...

Hectorjelly

Not betting some of the streets is ok, but checking all three is really bad. Do you think a player checks a set three times?

As for getting away from it if you bet the flop, yes maybe if the stacks were deep and you put him firmly on a set or overpair. Otherwise just call.

Jimmy Hoffa

Where do u think Paul got his name fish? Bet the flop he would call with any two cards is it possible playing 200 u are playing with scared money?Besides aq on flop its agood flop for you bet it.You checking forst may induce abluff as he bluffs alot but bet the bollox out of it on 4th street.He plays the 2 5 game in the fitz omaha dont mean hes any good at it .Free cards when so shallow blinds wise was suicidal thankfully you didnt fall on your sword.

bohsman

aodea wrote:

bet bet bet.

bet bet bet.

bet bet bet.

did i mention in my opinion at some stage you should bet?

i think the flop suggets you should bet.

turn oh id bet.

river i would prob have a cheeky bet...........

Phil gordon reckons bet with the best hand and bet with the worst hand or sumin along those lines and he has his own TV show.

.

fixer

ditpoker wrote:

yea yea, i got this all the way home from you... pipe down so others may reply!

EDIT: ok, i bet 50 on the flop and he goes all in... now what!?

why would you bet 50 into a 120 pot?

Atlas_IRL

If he has hit he will mostly likely bet he just used speech play to scare you off the pot hoping he's hit his ace.

He knows from your big reraise against 2 players your more than likely not playing an ace and have a high pocket pair

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

shoutman

All has been said already, what you are doing checking down an overpair to the board is beyond me, especially in the 1/2 plhe game in the jackpot!
I guess I dont have the check it down play in my locker

AKQJ10

ditpoker wrote:

(we'll call him paul)

no no we will call him fish, there is a reason for it. with AQ in his hand he'd have called a pot bet on the flop aswell hoping his ace would be good if it hit. maybe check flop as he is prone to having a bluff if he thinks you might be weak but definitely bet turn if he checks to you.

ditpoker

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Pot that fcuking flop and get all - in. That hand is really awful IMO - scared money. You cost yourself €140 because you are uncomfortable playing cash. In a tournament you would have played it to get all - in on the flop. Deluding yourself that your checking of every street was down to anything else is madness.

Also, Fish would generally have gone all the way because he had overcards to the board and he will often call out of spite when he thinks he has a live card - and if he doesn't on this occassion, fine - but you need to get money in there.

Finally, you KNOW that a player like Fish would never check both the flop and the turn to you with AA or KK or a set - or even an unlikely two - pair by that stage. This is really bad Jeff.

this is horrible advice lloyd in my opinion.

• if he pots the flop do i call?
• i've made about 70 euro with QQ, checking it down which im happy to do. i'd much prefer to make a safe 70 euro than to throw the"140 i cost myself" in against a set or over pair.
• "Deluding yourself that your checking of every street was down to anything else is madness." this is horrible too...
• fish will not go all the way with over cards out of spite if i pot it, he's a good player. if i pot it, he ONLY calls if im beat. If i pot it i make 70 euro, if i check it down i make 70 euro. If he's trap-checking and i pot it i lose 200, if he;s trap checking and i check it down i lose 60. i think this is my main line of thinking.
• "Finally, you KNOW that a player like Fish would never check both the flop and the turn to you with AA or KK or a set - or even an unlikely two - pair by that stage. This is really bad Jeff" why woudn't he? if he has AA, KK or a set, he wants me to stick my tank in.

if he pushes the flop do you call?

HectorJelly wrote:

Not betting some of the streets is ok, but checking all three is really bad. Do you think a player checks a set three times?

As for getting away from it if you bet the flop, yes maybe if the stacks were deep and you put him firmly on a set or overpair. Otherwise just call.

i think this makes much more sense. if stacks are deeper i think i bet the turn, NOT the flop. i think betting the river is bad in this situation is its not a value bet and i can only be called if behind, betting the river is out for me. I think betting the turn is maybe the best idea. and no, a player doesnt check a set 3 times, after the check on the river i'm pretty sure my hand is good, but betting will only cost me money, he wont call even a 10 bet on the river without having QQ beat.

aodea

did i mention that at some pointy i like the idea of having a bet!!

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

The C Kid

ditpoker wrote:

if i pot it, he ONLY calls if im beat. If i pot it i make 70 euro, if i check it down i make 70 euro. If he's trap-checking and i pot it i lose 200, if he;s trap checking and i check it down i lose 60. i think this is my main line of thinking.

You must run real bad if he will never call on this flop with anything that you beat.

ditpoker

ignoring the actual result of this hand... say we have deeper stacks (350-400 each), he checks flop, i bet 100 and he pushes in. even if we dont have deeper stacks, he bets i bet 100 and he pushes all in, leaving me with 50 behind to call am i throwing good money in after bad? can i not fold an over pair here? if i bet im opening the pot up for him and his much larger bankroll to bully me. This is not scared play, this is limiting liability. What does he push with that QQ beats?

and do you really think he's calling/raising with AK? i dont think your giving Fish enough credit here, he's not going broke with Ace high.

EDIT: lloyd, you playing the SE tonight?

ditpoker

The C Kid wrote:

You must run real bad if he will never call on this flop with anything that you beat.

against another player i'm potting the jack high flop, but the villain in this hand is not one of the drunken cowboys who will pay you off with top pair. he is a very good player who has pretty much put me on QQ or KK preflop and still called.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

Goodluck2me

ditpoker wrote:

he is a very good player who has pretty much put me on QQ or KK preflop and still called.

and still called preflop... when he KNEW he was behind. you really should have bet this Jeff, any JK or A is a scare card for you, he may check a set on the flop, not on the turn. Also if he puts you on a big overpair why wouldnt he bet a set? he called preflop in order to stack you if he hit, if he had J9 he would bet knowing you would call. also if you bet flop and he pushed and you folded then you are playing way to tight in my opinion.i dont think its profitable to fold here. i also this there are about 3 players i have ever folded an over pair to in the fitz/jackpot and they are the granite of the granite, fish is certainly not one of them. it does appear you are playing with scared money a little bit. i think a bet of 70-80 on the turn would be better than no bet at all, but i still bet the flop.

phantom_lord

betting at some stage seems good.

5starpool

I am amazed that so far no one has said you should have bet at some point.

Jeff your logic is terrible. You prefer to win a small pot than try to win a big one? Against Fish?

Move up levels.

shoutman

5starpool wrote:

I am amazed that so far no one has said you should have bet at some point.
.