Se hand! Help

aodea

yeah just wondering bout a hand. Not sure if my play is standard or bad here.

So stack is bout 10k villian has bout 5.5k

i raise from early postion to 1500 at the 200/400 level with KK. villian calls pretty quickly and the two of us take the flop. Flop is A 10 J all spades. Villian has bout 4k left i figure he has a weak ace and can fold and push all in i also hold the king of spades. Villian calls with JJ for a set i dont improve and i am left struggling.

Questions> 1. Should i have bet a smaller amount on the flop say 2k if he calls or reraises i can then fold.
2. putting him on a weak ace can he afford to fold?
3. Is my thinking that if he is ahead i have outs acceptable to push here?

i know its not steller play at any point just not sure what to do here.

ditpoker

aodea wrote:

Questions> 1. Should i have bet a smaller amount on the flop say 2k if he calls or reraises i can then fold.
2. putting him on a weak ace can he afford to fold?
3. Is my thinking that if he is ahead i have outs acceptable to push here?

1. if you bet 2k and he pushes with the amount of outs you have you have to call. You actually pretty much destroy a whole range of hands here that could legitimately be in the hand, and even the ones that have you currently beat you have a host of outs to. MAYBE check the flop like a trap, he has to bet his set with 3 spades and i think you want his money in the pot. against a set of jacks you are 42% favourtite to win the hand, you're a favourite against ace rag and DESTROYING and underpair, and more or less 50-50 with two pair, say ace jack. GET THE MONEY IN THE POT!
2. yes i think so , but you dont want him to.
3. see number 1.
4. no doubt carl will discuss KK post flop strategy with you!

do you know who villain is in the hand?

Shadowless

If we check and he pushes we're getting odds of 1.9-1 to call (pot = 7.6K, 4K to call) This is pretty much neutral ev with our nut flush draw.

Therefore if we push the flop and he folds even 5% of the time it's +ev.

To answer your questions:
1/ No, push is the only realistic bet you can make here as pot odds dictate you will have to call a raise.

2/ No, He's committed 30% of his stack pre-flop so he won't let go of any Ace here. Not that he should be in the hand with a weak ace to begin with.

3/Yes, your thinking is fine. I think you played the hand well.


Villan however should be soundly beaten for flat-calling pre-flop for 30% of his stack with a vulnerable holding.

BobSloane

Yeah push is the only option.

rag2gar

i dont think you did wrong here ant, perhaps try asking him where his fav train station is? Lol

aodea

rag2gar wrote:

i dont think you did wrong here ant, perhaps try asking him where his fav train station is? Lol

is there an argument for just checking and surrendering the hand? i dont think its really possiable any ideas. he would not tell us his fav airport so no chance of finding out his train station.........

questions asked by Rag2Gar

u ever watch the crystal maze whats ur favorite zone?
U have a favorite car?
U have a favorite airport?
U have aa favorite colour?

this guys information on other players is very detailed!!!!!

BigCityBanker

Why do you put him on a weak Ace? Cos its convenient for you if you go broke?

If a player is "good" enough to call a raise preflop with a weak ace then he is deffo "good" enough to call your push. If you had him on an ace then your play is rancid in so far as you have pushed your chips in on a draw and you should know that he is calling you.

RoundTower

BigCityBanker wrote:

Why do you put him on a weak Ace? Cos its convenient for you if you go broke?

If a player is "good" enough to call a raise preflop with a weak ace then he is deffo "good" enough to call your push. If you had him on an ace then your play is rancid in so far as you have pushed your chips in on a draw and you should know that he is calling you.

lol

Hectorjelly

I saw this hand. Theres a few things to note, you cant pass this hand no matter what happens, but, pushing it pointless. The player in question will never fold an ace, he was by far the loosest and worst player at the table. So your best bet is to check and call/push any bet he makes, therby giving him a chance to put some chips in with a hand you beat. When you push you make it impossible for him to call with a worse hand.

aodea

Hectorjelly wrote:

I saw this hand. Theres a few things to note, you cant pass this hand no matter what happens, but, pushing it pointless. The player in question will never fold an ace, he was by far the loosest and worst player at the table. So your best bet is to check and call/push any bet he makes, therby giving him a chance to put some chips in with a hand you beat. When you push you make it impossible for him to call with a worse hand.

but then i am only calling with a draw and the worst hand getting my money in behind even with the huge draw. By betting do i not stand the chance to win the pot there and then or if he calls later with the draw. or is what ur saying if i check he may check behind giving me a free card? although with his hand he is always betting. As a general question should i not be happy if he folds and i take down the pot with over 3000 in it already or is this why i can sometimes have problems accumilating chips in tournments? really some help is required as its been bugging me all day.

cooker3

aodea wrote:

but then i am only calling with a draw and the worst hand getting my money in behind even with the huge draw. By betting do i not stand the chance to win the pot there and then or if he calls later with the draw. or is what ur saying if i check he may check behind giving me a free card? although with his hand he is always betting. As a general question should i not be happy if he folds and i take down the pot with over 3000 in it already or is this why i can sometimes have problems accumilating chips in tournments? really some help is required as its been bugging me all day.

The point that HJ is making I believe is that he NEVER folds a hand which is ahead of your hand therefore by betting all that happens is he folds hands which you are beating and calls when he is ahead but by checking he will occasionally bluff so therefore will get some extra money out of him which you don't get by betting

aodea

cooker3 wrote:

The point that HJ is making I believe is that he NEVER folds a hand which is ahead of your hand therefore by betting all that happens is he folds hands which you are beating and calls when he is ahead but by checking he will occasionally bluff so therefore will get some extra money out of him which you don't get by betting

so i let him lead and call his bet with my draw no matter what?

valor

hand is fine so far

this is SUCH an easy check

cooker3

aodea wrote:

so i let him lead and call his bet with my draw no matter what?

In this situation yes as your getting a good price and have a monster draw combined with times he is bluffing makes it profitable.

phantom_lord

I don't actually get why you bet this...

58o

aodea wrote:

is there an argument for just checking and surrendering the hand? i dont think its really possiable any ideas. he would not tell us his fav airport so no chance of finding out his train station.........

questions asked by Rag2Gar

u ever watch the crystal maze whats ur favorite zone?
U have a favorite car?
U have a favorite airport?
U have aa favorite colour?

this guys information on other players is very detailed!!!!!

It was certainly the most entertaining tourney table i've sat at in a while. Makes a change from sulky I-pod listeners. Which seat were you Aodea? I was seat 1

stevvie

ditpoker wrote:

1. if you bet 2k and he pushes with the amount of outs you have you have to call. You actually pretty much destroy a whole range of hands here that could legitimately be in the hand, and even the ones that have you currently beat you have a host of outs to. MAYBE check the flop like a trap, he has to bet his set with 3 spades and i think you want his money in the pot. against a set of jacks you are 42% favourtite to win the hand, you're a favourite against ace rag and DESTROYING and underpair, and more or less 50-50 with two pair, say ace jack. GET THE MONEY IN THE POT!
2. yes i think so , but you dont want him to.
3. see number 1.
4. no doubt carl will discuss KK post flop strategy with you!

do you know who villain is in the hand?

can i just ask why he is favourite over JJ and not over ace rag, he still has the same amount of outs to hit?

ditpoker

against a set of jacks he wins 42% of the time, but the jacks win 58% of the time. the KK here is more likely to win the hand than A-rag. go to hendonmob.com, click on pokercalculator and enter the hand details.