The assassins all moved in four lines dancing on the floor

fuzzbox

1/2 6-max.
Stacks 200 or so.

I am a recent addition to the table, so no reads.

Preflop
fold, villain limps, co limps, button limps, sb limps, I check with J7o in the BB.

Flop (10)
Js 7s 4d
check, I bet 10, villain calls, everybody else folds

Turn (30)
Jd
I think for a time, and finally bet full pot 30, villain thinks for a time and calls.

River (90)
8c

I check .... comments?


1/2 6-max TT
villain 1 is a muppet and has fvck all in front of him I've just stacked him (for 40) when he did something awful. He rebought for another 40
Villain 2 looks fairly tag, and has a big stack (450 or so). I think he is good and aggressive, and I believe that I know who he is, but I am not sure. He is probably one of you guys.

I have 250

We are 5 handed.

Preflop
fold Muppet limps, I make it 10 with AcQc, fold, tag calls on the button, muppet calls.

Flop (30)
Qd Qs 7d
muppet check, I bet 15, tag calls quickly, muppet calls.

Turn (90)
Ah
muppet check (with 8 left or something). I check (comments?), tag bets 55, muppet calls all-in, and I just call.

River (112 in the main, 90 on the side)
Td
I check .... comments on the whole lot?

pok3rplaya

1) standard

2) Firstly I bet more on the flop. This is a good flop to get monies from the non-believers. Maybe you cbet differently then me though so maybe it's fine.

your turn check looks suspicious, the TAG guy at this stge know's it's very likely you've made some sort of a hand when you check to him so I think he must be strongish to bet here. He has to have a hand because of the AI player too, he know's there will be a showdown.

Not sure if I like the river check, lot's of his JJ type hands check behind here and his 77 (which I think is a big bard to his range) goes broke either way. There is a reasonable chance hw will check behind a Q too when a river bet could get value from him.

Yeah, river should be a bet.

ianmc38

I like number one and not so keen on 2. I think you're better off betting the river as he obviously has a hand he likes.

Samba

Hand 1. standard.

Hand 2. As Ian said, looks like he has a nice hand no point in checking if he showed marginal interest a check is good but it's quite clear he has a hand, let's lead into him on the river and if the gods are nice to you he will come back over the top for his stack with 77 and probably flat call with Qx

fuzzbox

ianmc38 wrote:

I like number one and not so keen on 2. I think you're better off betting the river as he obviously has a hand he likes.

Like what?

StraddleFor6

fuzzbox wrote:

Like what?

77

valor

I dont like your flop bet in #2, it loses value

pok3rplaya

valor wrote:

I dont like your flop bet in #2, it loses value

I would think it gains value. I don't like the size though.

fuzzbox

StraddleFor6 wrote:

77

What difference does it make to the river if I check or bet and he has 77?

fuzzbox

pok3rplaya wrote:

I would think it gains value. I don't like the size though.

Whats wrong with it?
How much would you bet?

pok3rplaya

I doesn't look like a bet that wants everyone to fold. $25 would be better. Looks weak and has the added advantage of getting more money in assuming it's called with the same frequency. I think thats a safe assumption.

ianmc38

If he has KQ/QJ/QTs or something similar he can check behind where as he'll often call bets with these hands. If he has 77 it's likely to go in anyways, but i still believe betting is superior here.

cardshark202

Why is number 1 stanard? We have the second nuts no? Bet the **** out of that river. Villain has open-limped UTG looks like he's gonna call us down. Don't get a check at all there.

#2, I much prefer leading this turn for like 55 and possibly shoving over a raise or just calling and shoving river or crai river.

spectre

Hand 1: I like. Checking the river is the best play as if our opponent holds trip Jacks or better, he will almost certainly bet the river, allowing us to get All-in.

If he holds a busted flush/worse than trips he won't be calling a river bet so our only chance to make money is by checking to induce a bluff.

Hand 2: Again, I like how this was played. The villain will know that Fuzz has to have a big hand to bet this turn. Checking allows villain to value bet a Queen or bet the flush draw.

When we check the river, our hand is well disguised and it looks as if we have AK or something marginal. We are really only concerned with losing value if the villain has trips in which case he will most likely fold to a river all-in bet but value bet if checked to.

We will always get all-in if villain has flush or better so we're not worried about these holdings.

Also, I probably bet 20 on the flop

Marq

Hand 1: I would bet the river, but otherwise fine.

Hand 2: I like the check on the turn, but only if you are going to bet the river if villian bets turn. I think Spectre summed up best why this is a good line.

I also like betting turn, AK is well within your range given the action so far, villian could put you on a cbet on the flop and a valuebet now, and raise you with a queen or a house either on the turn or the river.

I think betting the end is almost mandatory in either case as there are probably only two hands he is going to bet with (AA,77), and lots of hands that he will check behind with but would call a bet from you with (KQ,QJ,77,QT, any flush).

Hectorjelly

Hand 1 Fuzz checked because all the draws missed, if he has a draw it makes no difference is a full house or bottom pair, checking is better, (unless the guy is super aggro!), so the guy can bluff at it.

cardshark202

most players at 1-2 play passively, not aggressively. I come across more calling stations then I do bluffing stations. I think betting is better without reads.

fuzzbox

Results and comments:

Hand 1 - I checked because it really looked like he was drawing. Most 1/2 players would raise the turn with Jx (mostly a minraise :-)). If he did have Jx, then he would bet it anyway and maybe call a shove. I cant get him to call with a draw, but most 1/2 players also wouldnt check a J here let alone a full house, so if I checked, he is more likely to bluff.
I checked, he bet half the pot (44), I shoved and he mucked.

Hand 2:
This one sure has sparked some comments, which is nice.
I bet the flop for 15. If you note the seating arrangments, it was muppet (34 or so), me, then deep villain in position). I bet 15, which is half the pot, and also happens to be less than half of muppets stack. Thus, if muppet were to shove, then I could choose to raise again, if it went check, me bet, deep guy call, muppet shove. I also think that half pot is fine to bet there as there arent really that many draws.

I normally bet the turn, but this time I thought I would check it, and I decided to only call because I felt that if I raised that I would clearly signal the strength of my hand. I thought that my opponent was a reasonable player, so I want to disguise my hand.

When the river came with the Td, it put a flush on board. If I lead out now, then he should only call me with a flush or a full house. Rarely will he call with Qx, although he will sometimes do that. Most of those hands will bet the river anyway, so I dont lose anything by checking. He wont call the river with Ax or JJ or TT or 99 or 88 or anything like that, and he stacks off anyway with a full house. If I lead, my hand is obvious. If I check, then this player might see that I am representing Ax and therefore cannot call a river bet, so he might bluff with his 88 or 99, or whatever it is that he has.

I checked, he bet 85, I shoved and he insta-mucked. MHIG against muppet and his 67.

I usually bet the turn and river, but this time I took a different line.

fuzzbox

Marq wrote:

I think betting the end is almost mandatory in either case as there are probably only two hands he is going to bet with (AA,77), and lots of hands that he will check behind with but would call a bet from you with (KQ,QJ,77,QT, any flush).

QT is checking behind? Are you crazy?
flush is checking behind? Are you crazy?

KQ might even bet.

I really think, bet, check/call and then suddenly shove river is a really obvious line.

fuzzbox

ianmc38 wrote:

If he has KQ/QJ/QTs or something similar he can check behind where as he'll often call bets with these hands. If he has 77 it's likely to go in anyways, but i still believe betting is superior here.

QT just made a house too.
So its KQ or QJ ... but what about all the 88/99s of this world? What about other hands that he now knows are behind but the T of flush gives him a perfect extra bluff card. Now with a 3-flush paired board, surely a bet makes me fold Ax ?

Rnger

checking a strong hand on the river for value is one of my fav moves if it works well. wp fuzz