Live NLH hand - flopped the nuts OOP followed by horrible turn and river

Flipper

Played live NL Holdem tonight for the first time in an age because (a) there's no omaha game in Cork now and (b) I was bored and wanted something to do. The game was only 'ickle (1-2 (5) NLH) and I bought in for 500 (no bigger stacks). It was a highly uninteresting affair but this is one hand that I probably played all wrong. It is reasonably standard but would like to hear comments on the correct line:

I'm in the cut-off (€700) with 56s and limp for €5 into a 6 way pot. The button (€450) also limps.

Flop (€30) 234 rainbow.

Checked around to me, I check and the button bets €25.

Folded around to me and I call.

Turn (€80) 3 (brings backdoor flush) - I hate this card. What to do?

I'm putting him on a hand that the flop hit hard - set, Ace and 2,3,4 or5 etc...


I checked again and he bet €50. I called. (shouldn't have done this me thinks)

River (€180) A (no flush on board).

Action on me........

Comments please????

MrPillowTalk

I would have bet the flop for prob 1/2 or 2/3 pot, on the river I would check call a reasonable bet but wouldnt like it.

ianmc38

Bet flop. Bet turn. Check call the river. Sometimes check-fold.

MrPillowTalk

ianmc38 wrote:

Bet flop. Bet turn. Check call the river. Sometimes check-fold.

Im not sure on bet turn, if you bet and are raised you probably have to fold and yo will probably be folding the best hand a decent % of the time.

fuzzbox

MrPillowTalk wrote:

Im not sure on bet turn, if you bet and are raised you probably have to fold and yo will probably be folding the best hand a decent % of the time.

So why do you have to fold then?

ianmc38

You only up? Or like me only on the way to bed?

MrPillowTalk

fuzzbox wrote:

So why do you have to fold then?

I suppose it depends on how deep you are but in the games I play if yo ubet there and are raised calling isnt really an option against a good player as he will put you to a big decision on the turn. I suppose if the player is poor and passive betting is ok but I prefer to check.

When you check call here you dont get stacked nearly as much and the value you lose from betting is probably made up with the bluffs you induce.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

Ste05

Checking this flop was pretty terrible. It's what, a 7 or 8 man hand, and everyone has checked, so exactly how were you planning on winning any money out of this hand. You were blessed the Button bet. After he bet I would have check raised as you have shown so little strength by checking behind 5 or 6 players, he'll probably look you up with nearly anything he has, certainly any pair.

As played, check call turn and check call River.

Flipper

Ste, I checked the flop because I figured that I'd be in position for the whole hand - I didn't think the the 1 player inside me would be the only one with interest. Also, an A or 5 on the turn could land me a big pot.

We both checked the river and he showed A2. I'm kinda confused as to whether or not I could have got more money out of it but and it happened, I think leading at the pot (like you said) would have won me more money.

Hectorjelly

not betting that flop is crazy

Flipper

HJ, can you elaborate?

phantom_lord

you've got the nuts and you want to build a pot....?

Goodluck2me

also if you become a player the bets without and checks with you will often win small pots and lose big ones...
i bet out on the flop, and the turn. As played the check call gets as much value as possible from worse hands without getting them the chance to fold. if you raise the flop and or turn you are losing a lot of value from hands.

niceplums

his name is flipper!!!!
kieran what happened to omaha game at macau?
hope all is well and your still maintaining your high(ahem!!) standard of play!:rolleyes:

craig
ex macau clipboard holder

cardshark202

If you want any sort of value from your hand you should bet flop. I can't believe you didn't bet the flop. I would bet turn and get it all in vs most live opponents.

Ste05

Agreed, and basically I think I asked Flipper the Question already: by checking "how were you planning on winning any money out of this hand.".

I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on this Flipper and also from any other winning player.

I see you say that you'll have position for the rest of the hand... so.... how will position help you get another ~€400 into a €20 pot by checking the flop?? I'm certainly not trying to educate players who plays at higher levels than I've ever been bankrolled for, but I'm highly interested in hearing your thoughts.

valor

checking the flop is really really bad.

also, the turn is a pretty bad card but whats ur problem with the river?

SIDESHOW BOBs

well flipper if you actually got up off your arse and supported the omaha game i have been driving in the shangra la you might not be in the quandry of wondering why not to raise with the nuts in texas .

rant officially over

u goin to clonmel tomorrow

Flipper

From some of the comments above I can see that not betting the flop was a mistake. I was lucky that the button bet but if he didn't, I have 7 cards on the turn that will empty someones stack for sure (A or 5). I'm not arguing that I was right at any stage of this hand and that's why I asked for advice. My holdem game (although I never really had one) is gone to sh1t lately.

Question: If i lead at the flop say for €25 and the button calls.... What do you do when the 3 comes?

What do you do if he raises to €70?

Neil3030

If I've gotten this right, when the 3 came there were 5 hands that had you beat:

33: It was an unraised pot, it's possible he limped in with this on the button. His flop bet may actually have been indicitive of this also. He put 25 into the 30 pot on the button. This may have gotten rid of some chasers but it also would have probbaly knocked of the hands you want to keep; hands like Q4 or K2. If I'd flopped the set there I wouldn't have bet nearly the entire pot (probably around half), and hope for a high turn and river card, but that's me. So going on his flop bet I would have doubted he had the set, but I'd need to know more about his play.

23: Given his flop bet this hand is more likely. In this scenario you wouldnt want a QK or A coming on turn or river, as then your 2 pair may be up against a higher calibre. I'd put in a similar bet as what he did above to knock off anyone with the high kicker, aswell as the chasers for the straight. That being said, the chances of anyone limping in with 23 are very small, but again I'd need to know more about the guy.

43: Same situation as 23

22: Same situation as 33 but slightly less likely given the hands weaker starting rank.

44: Same situation as 33 but slightly more likely given the hands stronger starting rank.


So in answer to your question as to what you should have done when the second 3 came, I reckon you were pretty safe in your nuts. Him re-raising a bet in that scenario would have been representative and I would have pushed him all-in.

When the A came on the river, however, yeah I'd have alarm bells ringing. Because, though he didn't raise preflop, I've had countless f***ers disguise their bullets for scenarios just like this. A3 is another option, but hopefully you'd have him folded before that

Ste05

Flipper,

A 5 or an A are not the cards that pay you off. In fact you really want any card over a 7.... You also don't worry about the board pairing when you bet. This isn't PLO

As for your other questions, when you bet you should already have plans for the turn and if you are re-raised.

RoundTower

I don't understand why you think a 5 is a good card for you. If it is a 6 way limped pot and checked around on the flop good chance someone has a 6 and you just got done out of half the pot. And it's hard to get someone to call off 500 on a 2345 board with just an A in a 30 pot. Especially when you put the guy on a big hand just when he bet the flop after everyone checked to him.

I would bet the flop and probably bet/fold the river as played, I bet he had A3 but I don't even know if you're serious though.