Warranties on used cars

microgirl

I vaguely remember hearing something somewhere about dealers, no matter how small, being obliged by law to give a minimum of 3 months warranty post-purchase. Since I'm about to close on a car tomorrow, and have sadly forgotten to bring up the subject of warranties up to now I'd just like to know if anyone can confirm this for me or not before I ask him about it. Forewarned being forarmed, or some such

Sorry if this has been asked before, but I didn't see anything on my admittedly brief trawl.

cantdecide

you can buy a car on a 'trade' basis. that is to say, no warranty, no comeback- you buy it as you see it. as a private person, you will save a few quid on the purchase and if you're in the trade, you can buy it, do the few jobs that need doing an sell it on. that's why it's called a trade sale.
if you're buying an almost new car, you will probably have a manufacturers warranty.
if it's not- just make sure you get your warranty. if you want to play hardball, rty and wangle six months- on better cars like toyotas, they often give in.

bazz26

microgirl wrote:

I vaguely remember hearing something somewhere about dealers, no matter how small, being obliged by law to give a minimum of 3 months warranty post-purchase. Since I'm about to close on a car tomorrow, and have sadly forgotten to bring up the subject of warranties up to now I'd just like to know if anyone can confirm this for me or not before I ask him about it. Forewarned being forarmed, or some such

Sorry if this has been asked before, but I didn't see anything on my admittedly brief trawl.

Afaik dealers usually give at least 3 months warranty unless they are selling the car as a "trade sale" or selling the car well below the market value and class it as "sold as seen".

What year is the car you are buying? If the car is 4 years or less with low or average mileage I would expect a 12 month warranty and 6 months on cars up to 8 years old. Some dealers will also give you a mileage limitation on the warranty, ie 12 months or 12,000 miles which ever comes first.

Put it to the dealer before paying over the money. Also get in writing from the dealer what exactly is covered under the warranty as used car warranties can vary. Some will only cover the engine and gearbox while others will only cover the cost of parts while you still have to pay for the labour. Get it in writing and get them and you to sign it, peace of mind down the road as verbal agreements are not worth the paper they written on.

maidhc

microgirl wrote:

I vaguely remember hearing something somewhere about dealers, no matter how small, being obliged by law to give a minimum of 3 months warranty post-purchase. Since I'm about to close on a car tomorrow, and have sadly forgotten to bring up the subject of warranties up to now I'd just like to know if anyone can confirm this for me or not before I ask him about it. Forewarned being forarmed, or some such

Sorry if this has been asked before, but I didn't see anything on my admittedly brief trawl.

The law only requires a second hand car to be safe! :eek: If it stops moving it will definitely be safe, so its not the most useful.

SIMI might have some other practices though, as 3mths seems common enough. Mind you I saved 2k by not getting any warranty on a car last year. The gamble paid off. I still have 2k towards any future repairs in my pocket.

microgirl

bazz26 wrote:

What year is the car you are buying? If the car is 4 years or less with low or average mileage I would expect a 12 month warranty and 6 months on cars up to 8 years old. Some dealers will also give you a mileage limitation on the warranty, ie 12 months or 12,000 miles which ever comes first.

It's a 2001 Hyundai Accent, 38k miles. He's had it fully serviced, timing belt changed, and NCTed last week, which is why I was worrying that he might think that that should do and not give a warranty, 'cos it never dawned on me to ask.

Thanks for the advice

bazz26

microgirl wrote:

It's a 2001 Hyundai Accent, 38k miles. He's had it fully serviced, timing belt changed, and NCTed last week, which is why I was worrying that he might think that that should do and not give a warranty, 'cos it never dawned on me to ask.

Thanks for the advice

See what they are offering first before handing over any money. Then push for at least a 6 month warranty with the car, be prepared to walk away if you don't get it. There are plenty of Hyundai Accents out there so don't be afraid to go somewhere else. The chances are that they will give it too you seeing you with the money in your hand unless they are worried that the car is a lemon.

microgirl

bazz26 wrote:

See what they are offering first before handing over any money. Then push for at least a 6 month warranty with the car, be prepared to walk away if you don't get it. There are plenty of Hyundai Accents out there so don't be afraid to go somewhere else. The chances are that they will give it too you seeing you with the money in your hand unless they are worried that the car is a lemon.

The amount of work they've put into sorting the car - full service, full valeting, brand new NCT, changing timing belt on my request - I don't think they think the car's a lemon. But also means that I would feel incredibly churlish turning away from the car (especially after €300 security paid on it - not that that's a huge amount to lose). But that's cos I'm a big, soft girlie

Hopefully when they see the money (half of which is cold, hard cash) they will, as you say, offer a warranty no problems. Don't particuarly want to have to fight.

Thanks

cantdecide

i would always be VERY suspicious of dealer NCTs. i've had one and my dad has had one where there is no way they'd pass if it was you or i. on my car, i had a cracked front brake disc which is a potential killer!!


main dealers usually won't take a chance but small garages ususally do some genuine work. the problem is that garages have a pain threshold for working on cars. it wouldn't be the first time they had a long list of work done to use a smokescreen for a longer list of work not done.


don't be put off. just Kick ass and get the maximum warranty you can. you are the customer afterall. And really- walk away if they're not making the right noises. they may be banking on you being a soft girlie:)

microgirl

cantdecide wrote:

i would always be VERY suspicious of dealer NCTs. i've had one and my dad has had one where there is no way they'd pass if it was you or i. on my car, i had a cracked front brake disc which is a potential killer!!


main dealers usually won't take a chance but small garages ususally do some genuine work. the problem is that garages have a pain threshold for working on cars. it wouldn't be the first time they had a long list of work done to use a smokescreen for a longer list of work not done.


don't be put off. just Kick ass and get the maximum warranty you can. you are the customer afterall. And really- walk away if they're not making the right noises. they may be banking on you being a soft girlie:)

He says no warranty - he's selling as is. Which he didn't say at the outset. He said that's why he encouraged me to get a mechanic to look over it and anything the mechanic said needed to be done was done. Full service, flew the NCT, blah blah blah. When I pointed out it was the mechanic's advice that I should be getting a minimum of a 3 month warranty from a dealer he said he's not a dealer, he's a trader (whatever the hell difference that is!)

Of course, this all started off on the wrong foot for me because when I rang this afternoon to arrange pick up point and time for this evening (after arranging my work day and evening to free myself for this, and making plans for the evening based on having a car) he said "Oh no, no we won't be there this evening. Was it not yesterday evening you were supposed to pick it up? I was expecting you yesterday" (then why didn't he bloody ring me when I didn't turn up!) and I said that no, I had clearly said that I work two jobs and Wednesday and Thursday were no good, but I could come out to him (rather than him to me) Friday evening. Trying to arrange an alternative pick up now would be difficult, both as regards timing and the fact that I live on the opposite side of the city - without transport (work on the right side picking up)

So am on the verge of saying "Thanks, but no thanks" but am afraid he'll be angry (I know, I know, I'm the customer and I'm the one who should be looking out) but it'll mean a loss/waste of €430; €300 deposit on the car and the €130 fee for the mechanic, which I will obviously have to pay again if I want him to look at another car. This all lowers my budget for the next car I look at. Grrrr.

cantdecide

you get all kind of idiots setting up as car dealers and making a point of just messing people around. it really is one of the last industries where customer satisfaction isn't even an aspiration. it is really a disgrace that people get away with it in this day and age but still, only the greatest pratts won't return your deposit.

it sounds to me like your mechanic charged an arm an a leg as well. €130 is about 2 hrs labour. was there a big callout charge? it doesn't take 20 mins to do a thorough checkover. you could try to get him to do another car fo free.

personally, i would tell him shove it just as a matter of principal for being so rude as to not meet up as arranged. what would hold me back would be if it was a very good deal. if it is a genuine car with good mileage and all the jobs have been done, tough it out, drive on with the deal and put it down to experience.


there aren't really any horror stories out there but you can consider all used car dealers as out and out ''me feiners". they will deceive you enough to make the deal come off. in short, they will tell you the truth, nothing but the truth but they won't tell you the whole truth.

be cool and get your way:cool: you are the customer

colm_mcm

HOw did the trader advertise the car, and how much is it?

Capt'n Midnight

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/consumer-affairs/motoring/advice_on_buying_a_used_car_in_Ireland

In this situation you, as a consumer, are protected by the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980 as you are buying a car for your personal use from a person whose normal business it is to sell cars.

AFAIK even if you buy it through a personal ad, if the person sells enough cars they become have to give cover because it would be deemed to be their "nomal business"

Seth Brundle

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/consumer-affairs/motoring/advice_on_buying_a_used_car_in_Ireland AFAIK even if you buy it through a personal ad, if the person sells enough cars they become have to give cover because it would be deemed to be their "nomal business"

How many is enough?

maidhc

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/consumer-affairs/motoring/advice_on_buying_a_used_car_in_Ireland AFAIK even if you buy it through a personal ad, if the person sells enough cars they become have to give cover because it would be deemed to be their "nomal business"

It only be of marginal use anyway:

Per Lord Denning: "A buyer should realise that when buying a secondhand car, defects may appear sooner or later, and, in the absence of an express warranty he has no redress. Even when he buys from a dealer, the most he can require is that it should be reasonably fit for the purpose of being driven along to road" (I know someone will say he was an english judge, but the law is pretty much identical).

The matter may be different if the car was an 05 with only a 2 yr warranty that had expired, or if it was, say, a clean car owned from new but had a major problem outside of the guarantee period. I don't know what would happen in relation to 6yr old car though that had just been bought.

Darando

depends on where you buy the car really. Some places will give you a 3-month warranty but its not worth anything i.e some dodgy garages (non SIMI). If they do offer a warranty get it put on the receipt and what it is exactly for.

If you getting it from a Toyota/Renault/Ford garage they usually have a warranty scheme - I know Peugeot have a "platinum" used car scheme (1 year warranty) as do nissan renault etc. Think Ford have an AA warranty.

Main thing is get it written on the receipt.

microgirl

colm_mcm wrote:

HOw did the trader advertise the car, and how much is it?

Can't remember exactly, but was just an ordinary ad on carzone.ie (he currently has about 8 other cars on there, none of which make any mention of warranties in the ad).

He's asking for €4250 and that's including the change of timing belt.

The other thing though, which I've been glossing over for myself because I really wanted the car, is that the mechanic said the mileometer was out of alignment, which is a sign of clocking. He said it didn't look like it would have been wound back hugely - if it had been wound back 40 or 50 thousand miles he could tell, but if it was only 10k or 20k it wouldn't be possible - but I couldn't figure why someone would only want to take off 20k miles (it's showing 38k, and 58k would still be decent miles for a 2001 car). But with everything else, the more I think about it 3 owners since 2001 (I'd be the fourth) and still only 38k miles just doesn't seem right. Even if the miles are genuine there's got to be a reason people have been selling it on after a couple of years of not being driven much.

But....there's always the chance that it's a grand car. I don't think this guy himself is scamming me, it's more the worry that the car might have hidden problems. So am I doing him a disservice if I decide after all this, and after the service and timing belt and everything, not to take it. Plus making life hard for myself cos it means maybe another few months looking for another car. Gah!

And now I'm just waffling, so I'll stop

Ta

microgirl

cantdecide wrote:

it sounds to me like your mechanic charged an arm an a leg as well. €130 is about 2 hrs labour. was there a big callout charge? it doesn't take 20 mins to do a thorough checkover. you could try to get him to do another car fo free.

Then why do the AA charge €300 for an pre-purchase inspection?

He's not my usual mechanic - he's too busy actually being a mechanic to traipse to the other side of the city to look at a car. The guy I got to check the car is a retired mechanic (20 years with one of the big dealers I think) who now makes a living doing pre-purchase inspections. His normal rate is €100 but he's in Kilbarrack so Palmerstown was a long way off so incurs a higher rate. It's still cheaper than the AA

cantdecide wrote:

personally, i would tell him shove it just as a matter of principal for being so rude as to not meet up as arranged. what would hold me back would be if it was a very good deal. if it is a genuine car with good mileage and all the jobs have been done, tough it out, drive on with the deal and put it down to experience.

Yeah, but being so generally rubbish with cars and car dealing and what have you that I wouldn't know if it was a good deal, or a bad deal, or a too-good-to-be-true deal.

Mileage is excellent, but as I mentioned elsewhere there is reason to supect it might not be genuine (though not rolled back hugely)

lugnut

To be honest Microgirl it sounds like even if you did get a warranty from that guy it mightn't be worth much!
There are plenty of Accents out there and judging by the price I would doubt that you would have a hard time finding a one owner, low mileage example from a reputible dealer with a warranty that they'll stand by for your money - They're fairly reliable little cars so a warranty shouldn't scare any honest seller.
AFAIK even a private seller is liable for a *major* failure in a car within 3 months unless sold to a trader or sold by a trader as a "trade sale".
As for the the odometer digits being out of line - I've seen genuine mileage cars with digits well out of alignment and cars that had 100k miles wiped off them lined up straighter than a die but maybe Hyundais are different and your mechanic knows this? Being able to tell that it wasn't clocked by much sounds very suspect to me but then that's only my opinion and I'm sure he knows plenty more than me as I'm not a mechanic - 130 was reasonable enough especially if you got a written report, all that, besides even getting there and back, takes time to do right.
How sure are you that the seller actually did the timing belt and service and didn't just say they had?
If you don't know much about cars or are nervous about spending your hard earned cash try to get your deposit back and go to a decent garage (A bigger one interested in minding their reputation or a smaller one that comes highly recommended) and you'll be better off in the long run, at least you'll have peace of mind and be able to enjoy the car!

bazz26

microgirl wrote:

Can't remember exactly, but was just an ordinary ad on carzone.ie (he currently has about 8 other cars on there, none of which make any mention of warranties in the ad).

He's asking for €4250 and that's including the change of timing belt.

The other thing though, which I've been glossing over for myself because I really wanted the car, is that the mechanic said the mileometer was out of alignment, which is a sign of clocking. He said it didn't look like it would have been wound back hugely - if it had been wound back 40 or 50 thousand miles he could tell, but if it was only 10k or 20k it wouldn't be possible - but I couldn't figure why someone would only want to take off 20k miles (it's showing 38k, and 58k would still be decent miles for a 2001 car). But with everything else, the more I think about it 3 owners since 2001 (I'd be the fourth) and still only 38k miles just doesn't seem right. Even if the miles are genuine there's got to be a reason people have been selling it on after a couple of years of not being driven much.

But....there's always the chance that it's a grand car. I don't think this guy himself is scamming me, it's more the worry that the car might have hidden problems. So am I doing him a disservice if I decide after all this, and after the service and timing belt and everything, not to take it. Plus making life hard for myself cos it means maybe another few months looking for another car. Gah!

And now I'm just waffling, so I'll stop

Ta

I think the point that the car maybe clocked is the worrying aspect here, whether it be 20k or 50k miles knocked off doesn't make a difference. Don't let the seller pressure or bully you into buying something that you are not 100% sure about. Better to loose €300 deposit than be stuck with a rubbish car which cost over €4k that you end up hating.

Btw plenty of 2001 Hyundai Accents around for similar or less money:
http://www.usedcars.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=590372
http://www.usedcars.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=569701
http://www.usedcars.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=549696
http://www.usedcars.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=545934
http://www.usedcars.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=588381