Go broke here?

AmarilloFats

Villain is playing 25/14 over 150 hands.
HE has not stepped out of line as they say....
I know only A9 and J( beat me..(he don't have JJ here ..i think)
But really can't see him playing Q9 like this...I have always gone to showdown with this trying to get as much off hands I am ahead off.



Seat 1: gllsdlz ( $200)
Seat 6: HERO ( $389.50)

I am in Small blind and Limp

Dealt to [ 9d, Kh ]

2 Limpers. I complete in SB and BB checks



** Dealing Flop ** : [ 9c, Js, 9s ]

HERO bets (5)
gllsdlz raises (20) to 20
sahngugu calls (20)
kadewe_06 folds.
HERO calls (15)

** Dealing Turn ** : [ 4d ]

HERO checks.
gllsdlz bets (46)
sahngugu folds.

I????????
PUSH FOLD CALL
Is this one of these spots that u cant really be helped with...It's just a read/situation dependent thing????
And NO 'Fold preflop comments'

ianmc38

I would push and expect to get called by a worse 9 a large % of the time. If he has J9 or A9 then there's nothing you can do other than make sure you hit a king on the river.

Mr.Plough

ship it..

Ste05

It looks like he has a 9 too, so I think I'd just re-raise here and now and try and get him AI. I also might have lead the turn, although it probably would be situational, as to how the game was going and who the two villains in the hand were and how aggressive I'd been playing as to what I do, although I would be willing to go broke here most of the time.

AmarilloFats

From the villain perspective: If I was in villains shoes..I don't think I get stacked here with Q9...WOULD You??
Standardly in normal circ's etc. I don't think you should get stacked for 100BB in this spot(unraised pot).

But that is exactly what opponent must do if my position is to be profitable.
I just don't see him playing 9x (or Jack or Flush draw or any hand I beat like that)!!!


??:(

ianmc38

I can see most getting stacked with Q9.

PRman

What's the story with the poker lingo lads? I'm no shark but I do play a bit but I have no idea what ur talkin about!!! You must sit up all night watchin it on TV!!

Samba

with the info we have compliments of PT i fold this one reluctantly (but I am a rock)

Against this type of villain I think you see a hand that beats you too often for this to be a profitable call.

TacT

I like a reraise on the flop and if he pushes it all-in, I fold and give him credit for the better hand. As played I find a fold on the turn since it's a limped pot, hence a bit silly to go broke. He has shown more strength on two streets and his stats don't fit the I go broke with a J or worse 9 type of player. That combined with the he hasn't stepped out of line comment finds a tough fold for myself but I'm just a tight-arse.

ianmc38

His stats say nothing other than his VPIP is 25 and his preflop raising is 14. There is no other info available. He would raise JJ, therefore we are behind J9 and A9. Call turn and reassess river might be better if you're really afraid he has a monster.

dvdfan

There seems to be a bit of a divide on this one. I would be willing to get all in here but im stilling learning.

I would be very interested to hear how the people who taught/think you should fold here would play 98-9A excluding 9J & 99 of course if you were Villain and you had the table image that the OP described in the following 2 scenarios???

1)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 9c, Js, 9s ]

HERO bets (5)
gllsdlz???

2)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 4d ]

HERO checks.
gllsdlz????

Hectorjelly

TacT wrote:

I like a reraise on the flop and if he pushes it all-in, I fold and give him credit for the better hand. As played I find a fold on the turn since it's a limped pot, hence a bit silly to go broke. He has shown more strength on two streets and his stats don't fit the I go broke with a J or worse 9 type of player. That combined with the he hasn't stepped out of line comment finds a tough fold for myself but I'm just a tight-arse.

sorry tact, but this is awful!

The stats mean nothing. It sure looks like he has a nine but we beat all of them bar J9 and A9. All of the x9's are more likely than J9, and very few villains will be able to fold a nine. Also theres a draw on the board, which makes it both more likely for the villain to have a draw, and he may pay off a bit lighter.

valor

Never fold this hand

shaydy

What are the blinds? I'm thinking 1/2 with your 5 lead on the flop?

I can't see him having J9 or any 9 here for that matter as his raise on the flop is strong so it looks like he is pushing out the flush draw, If I had J9 here I want the player next to act in the hand, if I have A9 here I'll keep him in for value too (greedy me:p ). He follows it up with a strong turn bet. If he has A9he's played it reasonably well but I think we see KJ, QJ, 10J or a small pp in this spot more often.

Ship it on the turn and if he has A9 or 44 your unlucky.

Samba

HJ with an apology, new years resolution?

TacT

lol, what's happened to you HJ? No need to apologise.

If you are going broke in nothing pots like this, thinking you have the boots when you flop trips with the second best kicker it's terribly bad business when your opponent can be holding any two cards looking to catch a nice cheap flop, in the same way you are.

Let's say he completed that SB with J7 and the board comes 89T and two other limpers are to act after you. Are you calling an all-in reraise by the river after some betting and calling and no pair or flush on the turn/river when you are first to act?

What are you putting this chap on personally? I have him on 4 hands here, J9/JJ/A9/44. None of which we beat apart from J9 unless we catch one of our 3 outs on the river.

I have my rules and will abide by them, going broke in these nothing pots where your opponent has any two cards is at the top of my list. I've never made any serious money online but I know how to turn a steady profit and folding in these silly situations has been a part of it.

ianmc38

TacT wrote:

What are you putting this chap on personally? I have him on 4 hands here, J9/JJ/A9/44. None of which we beat apart from J9 unless we catch one of our 3 outs on the river.

Your logic is unbelievably bad. This is 1/2 we're playing where most players will go broke with AJ let alone 92o in this spot.

AmarilloFats

Glad I posted this hand. I folded. It was a the wrong decision. But I do think it's close.
Against this opp I don't think it was very bad.
As I said, i don't think he has Q9 here very often...


Thanks.

cardshark202

I like your line here up until the fold, cos obviously I would insta-shove.

Tar.Aldarion

Oh shove, shove shove shove.
Did you find out what he had?

Hectorjelly

TacT wrote:

lol, what's happened to you HJ? No need to apologise.

If you are going broke in nothing pots like this, thinking you have the boots when you flop trips with the second best kicker it's terribly bad business when your opponent can be holding any two cards looking to catch a nice cheap flop, in the same way you are.

Let's say he completed that SB with J7 and the board comes 89T and two other limpers are to act after you. Are you calling an all-in reraise by the river after some betting and calling and no pair or flush on the turn/river when you are first to act?

What are you putting this chap on personally? I have him on 4 hands here, J9/JJ/A9/44. None of which we beat apart from J9 unless we catch one of our 3 outs on the river.

I have my rules and will abide by them, going broke in these nothing pots where your opponent has any two cards is at the top of my list. I've never made any serious money online but I know how to turn a steady profit and folding in these silly situations has been a part of it.

Im happy to go broke if I know that there are many holdings which the villain would play this way that I beat. The way the villain played the hand I would be very surprised if he had a house already, and most villains will treat any nine as the nuts here.

TacT

damn it, we don't even find out what the villain held

AmarilloFats

He showed A9.

TacT

*pats self on back for not being a fish and making profitable decisions at the tables. Ian, what about 94?

valor

this isnt close, and patting yourself on the back is extremely results orientated poker

Ste05

Actually a fold here is actually pretty bad, and will actually cost you money in the long term.

TacT

valor wrote:

this isnt close, and patting yourself on the back is extremely results orientated poker

Geez, can I not have my glory moment because I was right for a change please?

How can you expect to be ahead with a villain who has not stepped out of line previously and has shown way more strength than us on two consecutive streets? He already knows we have a nine provided he is not a complete numpty. I'm not always folding this either.

fuzzbox

I would 3 bet the flop and shove the turn.

yaaay me ... wheres my prize?

Ste05

TacT, do you really think this guy would be stepping out of line with 97, 98 or 910 or something similar here??

dvdfan

TacT wrote:

Geez, can I not have my glory moment because I was right for a change please?

How can you expect to be ahead with a villain who has not stepped out of line previously and has shown way more strength than us on two consecutive streets? He already knows we have a nine provided he is not a complete numpty. I'm not always folding this either.

Tact or anyone else that taught this was a fold. Can you play out the scenario below as if you were villain in this case. Im not trying to be a wise azz im just very interested to see how a good poker player might play the hand below in this situation:

You have 9hTh and you are gllsdlz

Seat 1: gllsdlz ( $200)
Seat 6: HERO ( $389.50) SB

Dealt to [ 9d, Kh ]

2 Limpers. Hero completes in SB and BB checks

** Dealing Flop ** : [ 9c, Js, 9s ]

HERO bets (5)
gllsdlz ?????
sahngugu Yet To Act
kadewe_06 Yet To Act

** Dealing Turn ** : [ 4d ]

Now Assuming the following happened on the flop:
HERO bets (5)
gllsdlz raises (20) to 20
sahngugu calls (20)
kadewe_06 folds.
HERO calls (15)

What would you do now on the turn:

HERO checks.
gllsdlz ????
sahngugu Yet To Act

phantom_lord

Hectorjelly wrote:

sorry tact

anyone else find that unnerving?

Samba

I suppose in many ways this hand is like KK/AA except only one hand can beat you in that scenario....

I still feel that on occasion to a specific villain folding in certain situations is not terrible play.

If I was in the Fitz I call this all day long....I don't play much online poker these days but from my online experience against certain villains in this scenario I still find a fold sometimes.

It's surprising how often your gut instinct can send alarm bells ringing.

Granted we do not have notes or any detailed info on the villain, on that basis a call long term is clearly correct as there are many poorer hands that call us.

But against specific villains i.e rocky mc rock n. Peddlar imo a fold is correct.

In the example you provide DVDfan, it really depends on the villain as i've said above, against tight/rocky/solid players, i've been flashed a house for my entire stack all too many times in these unraised pots, unraised pots are generally the ones with small pp's lurking about or EP monster limpers...which is why these scenarios now make me stop and think.

Most rocks are not going to get this aggressive i.e for their entire stack with a rag kicker.