Law?

thedramaticone

Hey everyone!

I really want to study Law next year, but I'm really doubting over whether I should go to UCD or Trinity (I did the Leaving last year and have enough, way more than enough, points for both) because UCD's size and facilities and the great things I've heard about the Law school there sound pretty appealing... I've been in Trinity doing an unrelated course and even though I really like the college, it's not like I would never go anywhere else. However, the Law school there seems to be great too, and I know a couple of the lecturers and they're fantastic, but I'm trying to keep an open mind and want to be happy with my decision in the end...

So, here's my question: all of you who've had experience doing Law in UCD, what did you honestly think of it? Would you recommend it?

singingstranger

Well, while I'm not in Law myself so I'm not really in a position to answer the question (/me deflects to Miss GAAfia and/or others), I can, at least, point out that the UCD Law building in Roebuck is going to be rebuilt in the near future thanks to a €4m donation from Peter Sutherland, an alumnus, so whatever complains that might be lodged about the current facilities might not be entirely relevent by the time you'd graduate from UCD.

That said, I have no idea when building is due to start, so this post could be entirely irrelevant for you. Ah well.

thedramaticone

singingstranger wrote:

Well, while I'm not in Law myself so I'm not really in a position to answer the question (/me deflects to Miss GAAfia and/or others), I can, at least, point out that the UCD Law building in Roebuck is going to be rebuilt in the near future thanks to a €4m donation from Peter Sutherland, an alumnus, so whatever complains that might be lodged about the current facilities might not be entirely relevent by the time you'd graduate from UCD.

That said, I have no idea when building is due to start, so this post could be entirely irrelevant for you. Ah well.

I had no idea!... well, thanks for that. But isn't the Law school in Roebuck Castle? Are they gonna knock it down or something? that'd be sad...it being a castle and whatnot.

and btw singingstranger I'm assuming you're in UCD; do you like it? in general? I know half the ppl there love it and half hate it, but perhaps you could enlighten me on what makes it great? I adapt to anywhere and I think I'd love UCD if I went there, but it helps to have lots of opinions

singingstranger

thedramaticone wrote:

But isn't the Law school in Roebuck Castle? Are they gonna knock it down or something? that'd be sad...it being a castle and whatnot.

Not all of the School is there; a lot of the facility is housed in a building adjoining to it. I'd imagine the Castle itself is a safely listed building but the rest of the facility behind it is supposed to be all rebuilt and stuff.

thedramaticone wrote:

and btw singingstranger I'm assuming you're in UCD; do you like it? in general? I know half the ppl there love it and half hate it, but perhaps you could enlighten me on what makes it great? I adapt to anywhere and I think I'd love UCD if I went there, but it helps to have lots of opinions

Personally, while on Erasmus for the year in Germany, I unashamedly LOVE UCD. I think that there's nowhere else where practically every social aspect or any facility you could want doesn't lie nearby. It's biggest asset - and it's biggest problem - is it's size, in that while many thrive on the bustle of the campus, many others feel it to be too sprawling and impersonal.

To be honest, I think it's best that anyone considering UCD makes up their own mind, and there's another recent thread on whether UCD deserves a CAO spot here. Give it a look and see for yourself; but if you say that you don't mind fitting into new places then it sounds like you'd agree with UCD being exactly what you make of it.

Good luck with your choice.

TheVan

I'm in fourth B&L so I'll spread my wisdom about law!

I find the law really interesting and at this stage I'm sick of the business. As far as I know, the UCD law school is the best in the country followed by UCC and then Trinity. Although that hasn't always been the case it seems to be the way at the moment.

And no, they won't knock down Roebuck Castle, they'll just build a new building. My guess is it will be done in about 3-4 years as they don't have all the funding yet.

besty

Like The Van, I'm 4th B&L and I agree with him. There is a wide offering of subjects on offer (especially through the modular structure) and the Law School has some of the countries' leading experts on the staff. The vast majority of lecturers I've encountrered in the Law School have been very good and I would definitely recommend it.

On a non-academic approach; UCD can be a daunting place. Although I'm lucky enough never to have felt isolated there, it is vast and if you're not good at integrating/interacting with new people, I would speculate that it may not be the most enjoyable place in the world to go to college. With that said, the opposite is true. There are so many clubs/societies etc. on offer that there is bound to be something to interest you there thus fast tracking your integration.

I think UCD is a great place to study, punctuated by lapses in standards (see current results thread) and would recommend it.

mloc

After talking to a lot of both graduates and current law students, it seems that the UCD law degree is more practical and employable than the more theoretical Trinity degree.

B+L is also a great course, and gives you some options in the business field as well. I know a good few people in 4th, 3rd and 2nd year and they all seem to really enjoy it. Great class bond as well, it seems.

Sangre

Did law degree in UCD, doing masters in Trinity (in law).

Go to UCD. Too lazy to give any reasons.

skyhighflyer

Sangre wrote:

Did law degree in UCD, doing masters in Trinity (in law).

Go to UCD. Too lazy to give any reasons.

What he said. I'm on Erasmus at the minute in Paris from UCD law and I'd recommend it anyday.

Why?

You get a nice comfy and well-equipped law faculty away from the main campus and the classes are small enough that you'll get to know most people

The lecturers are by and large very experienced and respected

Nice easy twelve hour week

Lowest failure rate of any UCD course

There's more reasons I can't think of, but sure just go for UCD anyway...

abelard

In first law myself.

As of yet, I have no major problems with the course. All the lecturers are decent, with a few in particular standing out as excellent. There are a few excellent postgraduate students taking tutorials, though not all of them are brilliant.

Lecture content is a bit slow for the first semester, as they have to cover the basics, but it seems to be getting a fair bit more interesting for the second semester. You'll do contract, torts, constitution, legal systems, procedures and legal research.

We were told that the aim of the lectures isn't vocational as such, in that they don't treat the degree as just a precursor to doing Kings Inns/Blackhall, but rather teach it in a purely academic manner. However, should you choose to go on to Inns/Blackhall, the degree should equip you with what you need.

Regarding the situation with the building, facilities are a bit rubbish down in the castle. Particularly irksome is the lack of lockers. Also theres no water fountain (a small gripe which I believe will be rectified soon if not already). There's a bit of a canteen which isn't great but it's a decent space to sit around in if you have an hour between lectures. You'll be able to access computers and should be able to get wireless on a laptop n and around the lecture theatres.

Parts of the current Roebuck Castle are listed, I believe, so what I heard was that they will knock whatever they can and build around the castle. That may just be a rumour though. Suffice to say you'll either be accommodated in the Commerce/B&L building (which is snazzy and new) or get shafted into some prefabs.

Class size will be in the region of 150, comprising of BCL/BCL Maitrise/Law & French Law/Law & Politics/Law & History/Law & Philosophy while tutorials will be about 10-15 people, so you shouldn't have too much of a problem meeting people, and there's a whole lot of clubs and societies to cater to pretty much any interest.

If there's one thing to turn you off UCD it would probably be the shoddy admin. It's kind of a running joke at this stage, but just don't believe any date given for exam timetables/results/etc. The aforementioned size of the campus can be a problem too, you just have to not let it daunt you too much.

I suppose to directly answer your question, I think I would recommend Law. It's a challenging degree and upon completion should be flexible enough to find employment in many sectors. I can't really say I'd recommend it over another college as I have no way to compare, but so far my experience has been pretty positive.

Sangre

You can say a lot of things about law but it definitely isn't a challenging degree.

abelard

Sangre wrote:

You can say a lot of things about law but it definitely isn't a challenging degree.

Yeah actually you're right. I think when I said challenging I really wanted to say stimulating or something like that. You can easily get by without doing much work.

It's late

thedramaticone

Wow, lots of good advice here, thank you all so much! You've been very convincing


I'm still pretty undecided though, I'm keeping Law in UCD as my second choice on my CAO for now, but I still have time to change my mind. Thanks again!!

MrRobert87

Ok, I am in foreign territory but heres my view of Trinity. Currently studying Law at Trinity and all I can say is I love it. The course is interesting and challeging depending on how involved you wish to get into the course (You can breeze through though with a 12 hour course). You will be taught by some of the top legal academics in Ireland, including Gerard Hogan, Ivana Bacik, Gerard Whyte and Neville Cox, and also a few up and coming geniuses.

Your classmates are from all around Ireland, Northern ireland and abroad meaning you meet loads of new people, which might appeal more than the Dublin masses who all head to UCD.
Likewise, theres a large social life in Trinity and plenty of extra curriculer organisations in Law such as the college law review and law society.

So thats a view from the other side. Maybe I'll see ya next year!

Sangre

Yeah, there is only Dublin people in UCD law. :BIGROLLEYES:

Everything you've mention applies to UCD.

TheVan

Dublin masses?

I would have thought it would be Dublin masses heading to Trinners?

(I being in B&L and from Roscommon!)

Ps
Trinners SCUM!

Pythia

There's a convicted terrorist in my brother's law class in Trinity (seriously).
They let in all kinds riff-raff there.
Come to UCD!

Sangre

UCD Law pros;

Own faculty (make better friends)
semesterised (actually good)
3 years (4 is a joke for a law degree)
also many top legal academics
no protestants.
lawsoc is bigger than Trinity version
lawball is better
better sports facilities
no Chief justice/ AG has ever gone to TCD

Duffman

Sangre wrote:

no Chief justice/ AG has ever gone to TCD

or indeed Taoiseach.


But on two more serious notes..

I don't agree with Sangre about the 3 year thing. It depends what you want to do I suppose but you'll find that 3 years passes in a flash. A 4 year degree might be nice, particularly if you're only studying four subjects per year. So that's something Trinity has going for it.

But..

Surprised nobody has mentioned exchange programmes yet. If you want to spend a year abroad then UCDD is definitely the way to go.

In my year (incidentally Sangre's too), nearly 50% of the class spent their third year abroad. You are almost guaranteed to get either an Erasmus or international exchange spot if you want it. The selection of foreign colleges is huge, Sydney, Melbourne, Chicago, Toronto, California to name a few. I think there are more exchange places open to students in law than any other course in the college.

Exchange places in Trinity law are very limited and quite difficult to get.

The opportunity to go abroad should be a fairly important consideration for you at this stage as you'll probably be sick of the place by year 3.

thedramaticone

Duffman wrote:

Surprised nobody has mentioned exchange programmes yet. If you want to spend a year abroad then UCDD is definitely the way to go.

In my year (incidentally Sangre's too), nearly 50% of the class spent their third year abroad. You are almost guaranteed to get either an Erasmus or international exchange spot if you want it. The selection of foreign colleges is huge, Sydney, Melbourne, Chicago, Toronto, California to name a few. I think there are more exchange places open to students in law than any other course in the college.

Exchange places in Trinity law are very limited and quite difficult to get.

The opportunity to go abroad should be a fairly important consideration for you at this stage as you'll probably be sick of the place by year 3.

Actually, I've always known that I would spend 3rd year abroad, I just love the idea! Trinity has an exchange programme with the University of Bologna which would be perfect for me because I love Italy, speak Italian and want to learn about continental law - I might end up living somewhere that uses it! But I know UCD also has exchange programmes with European countries including Italy, do they really have more places than in Trinity??? Because I've always been pretty confident about my academic ability and I'm guessing they choose people to go on these things based on grades, but I want to know that I have a good chance of actually going abroad, and I don't know how well I'm gonna do in law which is something I've never studied before!!

I really would go to UCD if it had more international reknown, I think that's what's keeping me from making it my 1st choice because it really isn't as well known as Trinity in other countries and I'm worried how that could affect me because I don't think I want to live in Ireland. I mean, I might be completely wrong and UCD might actually be recognized in certain circles everywhere for its amazing law degree but...............I don't know!!


I just keep coming back with more questions but don't think we're not getting anywhere guys, this is actually really helping! especially because I'm putting all my doubts together in the one place and can see things more clearly...and hopefully other people will find all this helpful.

Sangre

What does international prowess matter to an Irish law degree?

mloc

thedramaticone wrote:

Trinity has an exchange programme with the University of Bologna which would be perfect for me because I love Italy, speak Italian and want to learn about continental law - I might end up living somewhere that uses it!

My friend was on that exchange last year, really enjoyed it.

Pure Cork

thedramaticone wrote:

I really would go to UCD if it had more international reknown, I think that's what's keeping me from making it my 1st choice because it really isn't as well known as Trinity in other countries and I'm worried how that could affect me because I don't think I want to live in Ireland. I mean, I might be completely wrong and UCD might actually be recognized in certain circles everywhere for its amazing law degree

With Sutherland among the alumni? Really?

Forget about any general "prestige" associated with either UCD or TCD. It's bull and doesn't really matter. It won't get you a job. When you're looking for a job, you and your academic performance will be judged, not the college you went to. Which college do you think you'll perform better in?

Stirling

Unfortunately I have to disagree Pure Cork. I went to UCC for my Undergrad degree and then UCD for my Masters. One of the lads said earlier that in terms of quality of faculty he'd rank them as follows:


1) UCD
2) UCC
3) TCD

and I'd have to mainly agree apart from the fact that I still think that UCC is a finer Law School with huge talent in the faculty. UCD has an edge for two reasons being its alumni and its location. Say what you like about being judged on the basis of academic record and character alone but at times it does make a difference where you went for employment reasons if for no reason that people are more sympathetic, even subconsciously, towards people who went to the same University as themselves. Look at the amount of top Lawyers who are UCD Law grads and you can see how that makes sense. In my view a lot of the reputation that TCD has is more down to perception and bulls*it than it is about actual quality of the Faculty and of the Degree.

In your case thats why I'd go with UCD over TCD but would echo what people have said about the size of the Campus making it hard to adapt to the place but thankfully Law is better than most in this respect.

Best of luck with whatever decision you make!

matt555

Hi im in two minds over whether i want to become a teacher or lawyer..can anyone give me advice about the pro's and con's of both?

matt555

Sangre wrote: »

UCD Law pros;

Own faculty (make better friends)
semesterised (actually good)
3 years (4 is a joke for a law degree)
also many top legal academics
no protestants.
lawsoc is bigger than Trinity version
lawball is better
better sports facilities
no Chief justice/ AG has ever gone to TCD

Is law a worthwhile course in general in relation to the amount of time it takes to qualify fully?

errlloyd

matt555 wrote: »

Is law a worthwhile course in general in relation to the amount of time it takes to qualify fully?

Yeah, about to enter my fourth year of Law, I bloody love it. Its an excellent general degree, and I am just one of many students who is probably considering taking a different path to being a lawyer after graduating.

I'm tired now, I'll write something with more detail later.