Vodafone Wireless Office - Watch Out

defib

:mad: Vodafone Wireless Office plus Minutes Watch Out


Just so mad I had to post.

Long story short, here in the company we joined Vodafone when the wireless office came out and it saved us loads and was great value. We also signed up for a minutes every month. We had been with Vodafone for over a year.

Now about a month ago O2 called in and said they could save us about 15% - 20% on what we were paying Vodafone, and we checked the figures and yes they could. So we signed up got all new blackberry’s and moved to O2.

Vodafone bill came in to the office today charging us a full month in advance from when we moved from them – it also shows we have 1500 free minutes still to use with them, but can’t. What a joke, called them and got nowhere.

So now we are with O2 and have with Vodafone 1500 minutes still to use plus handset and blackberry rental for another month.

ComReg here we come.

Anyone else have the same problem???

cold_filter

They are within their rights. On the contract you signed it will have said they require 28 days notice if you wish to terminate/port etc, so if you plan on moving to a different network and you ring them on the 1st of bed lets say, you call them up and give them your notice and then the teminate your account 28 days later, obvisouly most people dont do this and just go ahead and switch so your liable to pay rental for this 28 day period.

defib

cold_filter wrote:

They are within their rights. On the contract you signed it will have said they require 28 days notice if you wish to terminate/port etc, so if you plan on moving to a different network and you ring them on the 1st of bed lets say, you call them up and give them your notice and then the teminate your account 28 days later, obvisouly most people dont do this and just go ahead and switch so your liable to pay rental for this 28 day period.

I can understand maybe billing rental, but we have been billed for 1500 mins of calls we can now never make, that is not right.

And no f**king way will we pay.....

VODAFONE ARE MUPPETS:mad:

cold_filter

defib wrote:

I can understand maybe billing rental, but we have been billed for 1500 mins of calls we can now never make, that is not right.

And no f**king way will we pay.....

VODAFONE ARE MUPPETS:mad:

Your minutes are your rental, for example if your on wireless office 1500 you pay for the tariff (which includes your minutes) and then 10 euro or whatever for each additional connected mobile, If you left tomorrow to go to meteor o2 would charge you in the same way

cgarvey

So you haven't given them the minimum required notice? If so, you (your company, presumably) do, in fact, owe them, and Vodafone will be well within their rights to mark your credit rating/send in the hevies/sue you. ComReg will (rightfully) be of no help to you

flodis79

OP: Just to make this clear, Vodafone has made alot of strange things, eg the Vodafone UNLIMITED 3g wireless broadband, where they clearly say "unlimited" and equally clear say "fair usage". The problem you have had with the wireless office are sad, but it's unfair to rant over it like this; what they have done is within the T&C and you should have read them before making the definitive move to o2. Sad but true.

defib

flodis79 wrote:

OP: Just to make this clear, Vodafone has made alot of strange things, eg the Vodafone UNLIMITED 3g wireless broadband, where they clearly say "unlimited" and equally clear say "fair usage". The problem you have had with the wireless office are sad, but it's unfair to rant over it like this; what they have done is within the T&C and you should have read them before making the definitive move to o2. Sad but true.

Ok, so where are our 1500 minutes?

When do we get to use them, we don't?

We have been charged for something they will not give us.

Would you pay for 1500 minutes which you will never get, no one is the silly?

I don't see how we owe Vodafone for something we will never get and they will never give us. The law made is easy to move networks that you can now keep your number, Vodafone have found a loophole.

cold_filter

defib wrote:

Ok, so where are our 1500 minutes?

When do we get to use them, we don't?

We have been charged for something they will not give us.

Would you pay for 1500 minutes which you will never get, no one is the silly?

I don't see how we owe Vodafone for something we will never get and they will never give us. The law made is easy to move networks thIat you can now keep your number, Vodafone have found a loophole.

If you had given vodafone 28days notice you could have used these minutes but as you gave them no notice the loss of the minutes are down to you.

Urban Weigl

Why did you not give Vodafone 28 days notice? Were the terms not clear? If the terms weren't clear about 28 days notice, which I do admit I've never heard of (I've only seen 12 months or 18 months contracts, but never about having to give notice), you might have a case.

cgarvey

I'm assuming that you termintated the contract without giving sufficient notice (as per Vodafone terms). If not then the below won't necessarily apply

defib wrote:

Ok, so where are our 1500 minutes?

On your account (which you no longer use because you've moved, or no longer have access to because you terminated it prematurely)

defib wrote:

When do we get to use them, we don't?

See above. Had you given sufficient notice, you'd have had the opportunity.

defib wrote:

We have been charged for something they will not give us.

You have been charged your regular subscription fee for the period during which you failed to give notice.

defib wrote:

Would you pay for 1500 minutes which you will never get, no one is the silly?

No, but I'd expect to have to pay if I terminate early.

defib wrote:

I don't see how we owe Vodafone for something we will never get and they will never give us. The law made is easy to move networks that you can now keep your number, Vodafone have found a loophole.

Next time read the T&C (speaking of law) and you'll realise that you, too, have some legal obligations.

.cg

defib

Nothing in our terms about 28 days notice and nothing about been billed a full month including calls in our plan. The only point was 12 months and we were there longer.

All I can see is its a way of trying to hold onto clients and not let them go over to a new network.

I did feel Vodafone had a great service, but after this I think I will become a sales rep for O2. Like I said our bill shows rental for phone lines and then our package and we are been billed for 1500 minutes we will never get to use - not right.

Who here would pay for something you will never get?

Thank God we never signed a direct debt

flodis79

defib wrote:

Nothing in our terms about 28 days notice and nothing about been billed a full month including calls in our plan. The only point was 12 months and we were there longer.

All I can see is its a way of trying to hold onto clients and not let them go over to a new network.

I did feel Vodafone had a great service, but after this I think I will become a sales rep for O2. Like I said our bill shows rental for phone lines and then our package and we are been billed for 1500 minutes we will never get to use - not right.

Who here would pay for something you will never get?

Thank God we never signed a direct debt

You really think they will give you these minute when you're no longer a customer with Vodafone? Think about it. If you cancel with them, you cannot expect to get any minutes or credits etc carried over or paid out in cash. I think it's quite logical. It's like when you pay €30 for 20gb of download via a broadband service; if you don't use all of these gigs, you cannot ask the provider that the gigs were unfairly withdrawn from you, just because the time is up and the gigs won't get carried over to the next month.

Urban Weigl

It sounds to me like they had a 12 month contract, and they were already with Vodafone longer than that. At no point did Vodafone inform them they needed to give 28 days notice, no?

The onus, in my opinion, is on Vodafone to clearly inform their customers about such important matters, and not hide it away where the customer doesn't realise until it's too late. Although in fairness to Vodafone, this customer should probably have called Vodafone first, before switching, and checked if there were any special conditions such as this.

defib

flodis79 wrote:

You really think they will give you these minute when you're no longer a customer with Vodafone? Think about it. If you cancel with them, you cannot expect to get any minutes or credits etc carried over or paid out in cash. I think it's quite logical. It's like when you pay €30 for 20gb of download via a broadband service; if you don't use all of these gigs, you cannot ask the provider that the gigs were unfairly withdrawn from you, just because the time is up and the gigs won't get carried over to the next month.

No I don't think they should give me the minutes or pay me cash:D

But I don't think they should charge us €150 for minutes we are not going to use and they wont give us.

We moved to 02 on the 19th of this month and on the 23rd Vodafone issued us a bill for rental and minutes for another month, we had already left and the bill is issued for service to the 21st Feb.

Thats 33days for all you loves of giving notice:mad:

The whole war with ComReg and the mobile phone compaines was that each time you moved they woudn't let you keep your number, now that is sorted. Vodafone have a new way of getting you.

Guy:Incognito

Urban Weigl wrote:

The onus, in my opinion, is on Vodafone to clearly inform their customers about such important matters, and not hide it away where the customer doesn't realise until it's too late. Although in fairness to Vodafone, this customer should probably have called Vodafone first, before switching, and checked if there were any special conditions such as this.

Just because people dont read t&c's doesnt mean its hideen. they cant MAKE you read them if you dont want to.

killbillvol2

Vodafone Wireless Office Terms and Conditions

8. This contract is for a twelve (12) month term; if you wish to cancel your contract during the first 12 months you will be subject to a cancellation charge calculated as the number of handsets on your account multiplied by the number of remaining months multiplied by the monthly tariff charge that you pay per handset. You may terminate this contract as set out in the general terms and conditions under which you enjoy access to Vodafone’s mobile telecommunications services. After the initial twelve (12) month period this contract will automatically roll over from month to month until terminated by either you or Vodafone on twenty eight (28) days written notice.

Source: http://www.vodafone.ie/terms/paymonthly/index.jsp#wireless_office

It was a bit careless to just jump from one provider to another without checking the T&Cs.

jesus_thats_gre

The exact same would apply if you moved from O2 to Vodafone. To be honest, the account manager who convinced of you would have known this would happen and should have given you the heads up.

Urban Weigl

Stekelly wrote:

Just because people dont read t&c's doesnt mean its hideen. they cant MAKE you read them if you dont want to.

That's all well and good, but if you're in a store with a contract in front of you and there are people queuing behind you, it makes it easy to miss details like that if they aren't clearly highlighted.

After all, if they can tell you about the contract being either 12 or 18 months depending on which option you choose, it should be a no-brainer to also tell you that you need to give 28 days notice. Which makes me wonder, I have an Unlimited Data plan with Vodafone. I'd never seen anything about 28 days before, I wonder if it applies to me? Hmm. Perhaps I should take 20 minutes out tomorrow and ring Vodafone to find out, just in case.

defib

killbillvol2 wrote:

Vodafone Wireless Office Terms and Conditions

8. This contract is for a twelve (12) month term; if you wish to cancel your contract during the first 12 months you will be subject to a cancellation charge calculated as the number of handsets on your account multiplied by the number of remaining months multiplied by the monthly tariff charge that you pay per handset. You may terminate this contract as set out in the general terms and conditions under which you enjoy access to Vodafone’s mobile telecommunications services. After the initial twelve (12) month period this contract will automatically roll over from month to month until terminated by either you or Vodafone on twenty eight (28) days written notice.

Source: http://www.vodafone.ie/terms/paymonthly/index.jsp#wireless_office

It was a bit careless to just jump from one provider to another without checking the T&Cs.

I guess you missed this bit...

We moved to 02 on the 19th of this month and on the 23rd Vodafone issued us a bill for rental and minutes for another month, we had already left and the bill is issued for service to the 21st Feb.

Thats 33days for all you loves of giving notice.:mad:

We signed up for the Vodafone service in Blanchardstown and they totally messed up the transfer, all our phones when offline for two days. But after that nightmare we were very happy with the cost and the service from Vodafone.

Now we are been penalised for moving, our bill clearly shows two charges.

1) Rental
2) Calls, which we have 1500 minutes, which we can’t use.

That’s the whole point, the charge for something Vodafone will not honour and never give us, we asked them if we moved a phone back to them for 12 months could this be credited. Answer NO.

jesus_thats_gre

The 1500 hundred minutes are provided free of charge with the rental. You are not paying for the 1500 minutes. If you ring Vodafone up, I would be pretty confident they will reconnect all your phones pretty much straight away and organise to have your service discontinued at the end of the 28days notice period, i.e. if you requested the account to be closed on the 20th of this month, your account will be closed on the 20th of Feb. You will then have ample oppurtunity to use the free minutes that are associated with your rental.

Further to my point that the O2 sales person would have known this was going to happen and should have given you the heads up. They pretty much have the exact same policies as Vodafone in this type of incident. As such, I would be pretty confident that the O2 sales rep kept this fact from you so as to ensure that you would move your account over straight away and he/she would get the sale.

Out of curiosity, what do you think will happen if Meteor or Three approach you in 5 months offering you 20% savings over what O2 are offering and you decide to avail of the offer straight away.

You are obviously out to blame someone here and Vodafone is the easy option for you. I think you should consider pointing the finger somewhere in your own direction or the sales manager.

Random

If you're in business and you don't check such simple things...

Ask your O2 account manager if he can do anything for you, he has no obligation too but it might be worth a try .. maybe you'll get some free rental or calls or something ..

Pythia

defib wrote:

I guess you missed this bit...

We moved to 02 on the 19th of this month and on the 23rd Vodafone issued us a bill for rental and minutes for another month, we had already left and the bill is issued for service to the 21st Feb.

Thats 33days for all you loves of giving notice.:mad:

After the initial twelve (12) month period this contract will automatically roll over from month to month until terminated by either you or Vodafone on twenty eight (28) days written notice.

I'm sorry but you diidn't give written notice. Just because you moved doesn't mean it's notice.
You need to inform them in writing 28 days before the move.
Unfortunately in this case you are in the wrong and Vodafone are right. Next time, check the T&C's more closely.

killbillvol2

defib wrote:

I guess you missed this bit...

We moved to 02 on the 19th of this month and on the 23rd Vodafone issued us a bill for rental and minutes for another month, we had already left and the bill is issued for service to the 21st Feb.

Thats 33days for all you loves of giving notice.:mad:

NO.

I didn't miss anything. You did. You didn't read the terms and conditions.

Urban Weigl

It appears that moving to another provider doesn't count as notice. You will continue to get billed by Vodafone.

Random

Urban Weigl wrote:

It appears that moving to another provider doesn't count as notice. You will continue to get billed by Vodafone.

I believe signing up to O2 does count as notice to terminate your agreement with Vodafone, but the 28 days would start from the date you sign up with O2 - which is why he's been billed.

Sam Vimes

Urban Weigl wrote:

It appears that moving to another provider doesn't count as notice. You will continue to get billed by Vodafone.

you have to give 28 days notice. moving to another provider gives zero days notice

Urban Weigl

Commander Vimes wrote:

you have to give 28 days notice. moving to another provider gives zero days notice

I was agreeing with that.

Only interesting thing was that the invoice date was over 28 days after moving to O2. So I'm kinda wondering if Vodafone cancelled the account after that without being given notice, in which case they would seem to have accepted it as notice, or will they bill him forever until he gives them notice, even though he's moved, which would count as cancelling the service.

Sam Vimes

Urban Weigl wrote:

I was agreeing with that.

ah. i should have read the rest of the thread. probably would have been clearer

defib

Urban Weigl wrote:

I was agreeing with that.

Only interesting thing was that the invoice date was over 28 days after moving to O2. So I'm kinda wondering if Vodafone cancelled the account after that without being given notice, in which case they would seem to have accepted it as notice, or will they bill him forever until he gives them notice, even though he's moved, which would count as cancelling the service.

Thank God someone can read what I said. I am not happy with what we have been billed but its more that 28 days.

We have been billed from the time we moved - that is our O2 sim cards were working and Vodfaone were not - 33 DAYS

Should I make the text larger ? ? ?

killbillvol2

QUOTE=killbillvol2][Vodafone Wireless Office Terms and Conditions

8. This contract is for a twelve (12) month term; if you wish to cancel your contract during the first 12 months you will be subject to a cancellation charge calculated as the number of handsets on your account multiplied by the number of remaining months multiplied by the monthly tariff charge that you pay per handset. You may terminate this contract as set out in the general terms and conditions under which you enjoy access to Vodafone’s mobile telecommunications services. After the initial twelve (12) month period this contract will automatically roll over from month to month until terminated by either you or Vodafone on twenty eight (28) days written notice. [/QUOTE]




I'm sorry, was it not big enough? You may have an argument over 5 days (33-28) but I'm guessing you still haven't given them notice in writing as required in your contract. In which case you'll be getting a bill next month as well.

cgarvey

Urban Weigl wrote:

Which makes me wonder, I have an Unlimited Data plan with Vodafone. I'd never seen anything about 28 days before, I wonder if it applies to me?

See section 5.2 of your T&C (assuming we got the same T&C!)

Yes, there should be a plain-English summary of T&C for all providers, but anyone going in to a subscription service without first checking how to get out of it, is looking for trouble.

Yearly contracts and 28 days notice are standard practice across a wide range of subscription-based services. Granted, not all enforce the 28 days.

cgarvey

defib wrote:

We have been billed from the time we moved - that is our O2 sim cards were working and Vodfaone were not - 33 DAYS

But when did you give notice? o2 has nothing to do with Vodafone (I hope you'll agree), so when did you give notice to Vodafone, and what cessation date did you give them then (2 different dates)?

scubagit

If on a similar package plan with O2, do you seriously think the same think won't happen if you decide to move from O2??
The same policy applies with both networks. And as for saving you 20%... Dont count on it. I have seen several O2 Bill analyses in my time and they tend to bend the truth a little. ie Not including items which may drive your bill up. These might included directory enquiries calls, texts, roaming etc.
Talk to them about your additiional 5 days though.

dub_skav

We have been billed from the time we moved - that is our O2 sim cards were working and Vodfaone were not - 33 DAYS

Should I make the text larger ? ? ?

Defib, I don't think Vodafone have done anything wrong - including your supposed extra 5 days.
In the Ts & Cs it states that you have a rolling month on month contract, until you give 28 days notice to cancel said contract, this 28 days is not the most that you will pay, it is when they will stop renewing your contract.
The way I read it this means that if you give notice on the 1st and your bill date is, for example the 27th, that you will not have given the required 28 days and will be billed for an additional month.
So if anything you are lucky that your port date and bill date were so close together as you could legitimately have been billed for 27 days plus 1 month.

Also, as Urban_Weigl says, I would check that your contract has been cancelled as you have still not given Vodafone written notice.

linryan

When you move to o2, o2 contact vodafone, tell them they are taking the numbers onto their network, thats how vodafone knew you were going. If your numbers are now active with o2 then you wont be getting anymore bills from Vodafone, you will be billed up until the date you ceased the line. The bill they sent you is for rental in lieu of the 28 days written notice you didnt give. The whole point of this charge is to deter people from leaving.

lfc1892

This is the process of moving numbers from one network to another. The whole system is regulated by ComReg (very strictly to prevent bad practice such as deliberately stopping a number being ported for reasons other than unpaid bills).

From the moment the "Port" request is submitted by the requester network, you have given notice to the donor network that you are cancelling your contract, this is the only instance where the notice and the cancellation are at exactly the same time. This then means that you are no longer required to give the 28 days notice.

However, you are still liable for the cancel contract fee should you still be in contract.

O2 gives a 14 day period to all customers that Port ON to the network to change their minds without penalty (i.e.they are not charged a cancel contract fee) as far as I'm aware they are the only network that allows this.

I understand that ComReg fines Donor Networks substantial amounts of money for not completing ports within 48 hours. One major Irish network (whom I won't name) had a really terrible time of it over Christmas but the requester network was the one the customers blamed!!!

cgarvey

lfc1892 wrote:

From the moment the "Port" request is submitted by the requester network, you have given notice to the donor network that you are cancelling your contract, this is the only instance where the notice and the cancellation are at exactly the same time. This then means that you are no longer required to give the 28 days notice.

Is that in the Vodafone T&C? I couldn't see it in there anywhere.

lfc1892

you won't find this in their T&cs. It is part of the regulations that govern full mobile number portability. You are still liable for the cancellation of the contract but not held to the 28 day notice.

For example, if you give 28 days notice of cancellation, at the end of that period your number is cancelled. This means the numbers ownership returns directly to the network for their re-use. At this stage you CANNOT move the number to another network as you no longer own it.

However, if you instruct another network to port your number over, your number remains live on the Donor Network until the port is completed, it then becomes live on the requester network. You are now cancelled from all services offered by your original network without need for notice.

ComReg control all of this and moniter it to ensure no anti competitive practices are used by Donor Networks. The only instance in which a Donor network can prevent the port is in the event of bad debt

defib

Just to update you all....


Got another bill from Vodafone for wait for it.......... another month. :mad:

This is taking the piss.....

dub_skav

Ifc1892, is it not different if you have a business contract, i.e. more than one number.
I thought in that case the contract was more strict than for an individual and notice was required. I could be wrong of course.

Skary

Also - keep in mind that when you signed up you would have been paying a month in advance as well, so they keep that as your 28 days notice.. the only charges you should have received from them were calls in excess of your minutes for January. I have had many an argument with VF and their billing which is why I will never touch them again. Are you sure that there are no active numbers left on your old VF account? Its strange that they can generate a bill with no active numbers on their network.