Dundalk to Galway via motorways - toll charges

kluivert

:eek:

I cant believe I have been travelling to galway via kells on the national roads but i have to go to Galway next week end and I said i would go via the motorways to Galway this time.

I only found out that I will have to go through three toll bridges on the way down and same again on the way back

M1 toll - €1.70
M50 toll - €1.90
M4 toll - €2.60

Tolls travelling to Galway = €6.20

SO that 12.40 in total in two days of travelling.

Rudolph Claus

This country is a joke. The motorists are keeping this country running with all the tax we are constantly forced to pay.

Sandwich

Looks very good value to me. Well worth it for the safety, time saving, more reliable journey time and more relaxed driving.

Looks about the same as France and Italy in AFAIK.

highlight100

At those prices i would be taking the Kells,Mullingar,Kilbeggan route.
Quicker also as you compleatly miss the M50

Avns1s

I think its absolutely absurd. I can't understand that when the exchequer is raking in billions that our intelligent government is still pushing the PPP model and striking deals that they cannot get out of that serve no purpose other than to line the pockets of certain individuals.

The bad news is that it will get worse. Take the Dundalk to Galway example, as further sections of this motorway are completed, there will be further tolls on that road and many others.

And yet I heard our esteemed Minister talking about the extra 100 km of motorways that will be completed around galway in the next couple of years. He "forgot" to mention what it will cost us to use them.

maidhc

Sandwich wrote:

Looks very good value to me. Well worth it for the safety, time saving, more reliable journey time and more relaxed driving.

Looks about the same as France and Italy in AFAIK.

I don't really think we should consider safe and high quality roads a luxury in light of the motor tax we pay.

Stark

The M4 toll is absolutely crazy. It's rediculous expensive and it's such a short stretch of motorway between Galway and Dublin. You're better off going through Leixlip.

peasant

maidhc wrote:

I don't really think we should consider safe and high quality roads a luxury in light of the motor tax we pay.

Not to forget VRT ...

Imagine you had to use one or more of these toll stations every day just to get into work, that adds up to serious money.

sdanseo

Get over it...the petrol will cost you €50. You're talking just over the price of a pint to get from one end of the country to the other. You pay the toll so that the taxpayer dosen't have to pay as much for the road and gets it quicker.

It's worth it when the road works. Unlike the M50, which is a stupid tol, not because of the money, but because of the trouble it causes.

Avns1s

Stark wrote:

The M4 toll is absolutely crazy. It's rediculous expensive and it's such a short stretch of motorway between Galway and Dublin. You're better off going through Leixlip.

I couldn't agree more, but its still hard to pass on the convenience of the motorway when you're en route.

bazz26

I dont see why we should be paying a toll for the privilage of driving on good roads, I thought that what we pay motor tax, vrt and tax on fuel for already?

The motorist is a soft touch in this country and consecutive governments know this.

maidhc

sdonn_1 wrote:

Get over it...the petrol will cost you €50. You pay the toll so that the taxpayer dosen't have to pay as much for the road and gets it quicker.

For the most part in our public transport free society: (taxpayer - green party) = motorist

Oh... and about 60% (or more) of the petrol is tax anyway...

Avns1s

sdonn_1 wrote:

Get over it...the petrol will cost you €50. You're talking just over the price of a pint to get from one end of the country to the other. You pay the toll so that the taxpayer dosen't have to pay as much for the road and gets it quicker.

It's worth it when the road works. Unlike the M50, which is a stupid tol, not because of the money, but because of the trouble it causes.

The government and the taxpayer can WELL AFFORD to provide the roads and at the same rate as the PPP will do, in the current economic climate. Then the taxpayer would be in control, could set the rate of tolls and have a return for the taxpayer rather than the private sector. They could also decide the length of time the toll should stay on a particular section of road and then we would be in the situation we're in with the M50.:mad:

sdanseo

Avns1s wrote:

The government and the taxpayer can WELL AFFORD to provide the roads and at the same rate as the PPP will do, in the current economic climate. Then the taxpayer would be in control, could set the rate of tolls and have a return for the taxpayer rather than the private sector. They could also decide the length of time the toll should stay on a particular section of road and then we would be in the situation we're in with the M50.:mad:

Yes, but with the PPP delays are minimal because if the contractor doesn't do it on time, they get penalised. In theory, this affects the cost in the same way - a fixed price at the start of the contract - but that didn't quite work as planned :rolleyes:

EG: Builder: That part will be an extra €100,000
Cullen: We need it done soon, so g'wan, we'll pay for it

I don't have a problem with a toll once it's not one I have to pay every day - for example the M50 toll would be fine if there was no traffic - €4 a day. In the current economic climate that's nothing. Dundalk to Galway is not exactly a communter route hence the large charge.

I can see, and understand the argument for no tolls, and how it is seen as double taxation. But we, the taxpayers (well for me not just yet :P) end up paying less in the long run and the quality is higher, and the delivery time MUCH shorter. Most new road projects are now coming in way ahead of schedule.

maidhc

sdonn_1 wrote:

Yes, but with the PPP delays are minimal because if the contractor doesn't do it on time, they get penalised. In theory, this affects the cost in the same way - a fixed price at the start of the contract - but that didn't quite work as planned :rolleyes:

Any contact can provide for this. It doesn't have to be a PPP. All it takes is intelligent civil servants to ensure an appropriate contract is drafted, and this is something they are getting better at... and not before time.

sdonn_1 wrote:

I don't have a problem with a toll once it's not one I have to pay every day -

People do live in Dundalk and Galway, strange as it may seem.

sdonn_1 wrote:

But we, the taxpayers (well for me not just yet :P) end up paying less in the long run and the quality is higher, and the delivery time MUCH shorter. Most new road projects are now coming in way ahead of schedule.

With PPP we pay less in the short term but more in the long term. E.g. the M50.

As I said, road will come in on time irrespective of PPP if an appropriate contract with appropriate penalties for late delivery is agreed at the outset.

Sandwich

maidhc wrote:

I don't really think we should consider safe and high quality roads a luxury in light of the motor tax we pay.

I'm not considering them a luxury. And yes we do pay high motor tax and VRT.


But someone has to pay for the roads. If 'the governent' pays for it, that means all taxpayers are funding it, whether they use it or not. Surely its much fairer to all, that those who use a given facility should be the ones to pay for it.

France, Spain and Italy (that i know of) have been doing it this way for years - who has the better road network?

maidhc

Sandwich wrote:

But someone has to pay for the roads. If 'the governent' pays for it, that means all taxpayers are funding it, whether they use it or not. Surely its much fairer to all, that those who use a given facility should be the ones to pay for it.

You can apply this logic to almost all public expenditure...e.g. free health care, free education... Many taxpayers benefit from neither, but (rightfully IMO) contribute. I don't see safe roads as being a whole lot less deserving.

Seth Brundle

Sandwich wrote:

Looks very good value to me. Well worth it for the safety, time saving, more reliable journey time and more relaxed driving.

Looks about the same as France and Italy in AFAIK.

Did you not see that he will be taking the M50? Neither safer, time saving, reliable journey times or more relaxed driving.

Stark wrote:

The M4 toll is absolutely crazy. It's rediculous expensive and it's such a short stretch of motorway between Galway and Dublin. You're better off going through Leixlip.

Leixlip? No tolls near here. Don't you mean Enfield?

Stark

Woops, my mistake. Was thinking of where the motorway itself begins rather than where the tolled section begins. Last time I turned off before Leixlip to play it safe.

JHMEG

I heard some plank TD going on about how much fuel he would save by going the M4 (and toll).

I travel the M4/N4 monthly and I know that not only will I save the cost of the toll by going the old road, but I also save a noticeable amount of fuel (and the environment) by not travelling at 120km/h for half my journey.

endplate

Stark wrote:

The M4 toll is absolutely crazy. It's rediculous expensive and it's such a short stretch of motorway between Galway and Dublin. You're better off going through Leixlip.

So the cost of wear and tear on your car extra fuel used from longer distance travelled and time lost due to longer distance and lower speed limit is not worth the measley sum of €2.60 for the convenience you get

mukki

endplate wrote:

So the cost of wear and tear on your car extra fuel used from longer distance travelled and time lost due to longer distance and lower speed limit is not worth the measley sum of €2.60 for the convenience you get

but that 2.60 will keep increasing, wait untill its "€7.50!" and see what you think of it

maidhc

endplate wrote:

So the cost of wear and tear on your car extra fuel used from longer distance travelled and time lost due to longer distance and lower speed limit is not worth the measley sum of €2.60 for the convenience you get

I spend €50 on about 550 miles of driving. I drive 40 miles a weekday and with the odds and ends fill once every 2 weeks or so.

Exactly how spending an extra €52 (2.60x20) could save me money on fuel, were I to be driving on the M4, is a complete and utter mystery. I avoid the M8 Fermoy bypass for this exact reason!

overdriver

endplate wrote:

So the cost of wear and tear on your car extra fuel used from longer distance travelled and time lost due to longer distance and lower speed limit is not worth the measley sum of €2.60 for the convenience you get

That's exactly the attitude that will ensure this rip-off continues and worsens.

As for people NOT using the roads if they don't drive, how do ambulances, fire services, police, and the goods they consume reach them otherwise? It's not as one-dimensional as " I don't have a car, therefor my taxes shouldn't pay for roads". Roads are neccessary for the development of any state.

endplate

maidhc wrote:

I spend €50 on about 550 miles of driving. I drive 40 miles a weekday and with the odds and ends fill once every 2 weeks or so.

Exactly how spending an extra €52 (2.60x20) could save me money on fuel, were I to be driving on the M4, is a complete and utter mystery. I avoid the M8 Fermoy bypass for this exact reason!

Mmm maybe you should read the previous posts but I'll explain it slowly anyway. Stark said that he would prefer to travel an extra 10Km's or so (made that number up but ppl should get my drift) on an 80km/hr road than pay €2.60 to get to the same point in less time and Kms hence saving him fuel and wear and tear on the nice new motorway the Government built for us IMO pretty good value and I don't mind paying it.

Overdriver you should try living in other European countries then you would know that we're not that badly ripped off

As for Mukki inflation is a terrible thing but your pay rises will cover it:p

maidhc

endplate wrote:

Stark said that he would prefer to travel an extra 10Km's or so (made that number up but ppl should get my drift) on an 80km/hr road than pay €2.60 to get to the same point in less time and Kms hence saving him fuel and wear and tear on the nice new motorway the Government built for us IMO pretty good value and I don't mind paying it.

My point is that citizens of a developed nation should be entitled to roads of a certain quality without being indebted to anyone.

What they do in France or Italy is completely irrelevant IMO, but even if you are to draw comparisons in Ireland we seem to be charged high tolls for very little road.

Sandwich

maidhc wrote:

My point is that citizens of a developed nation should be entitled to roads of a certain quality without being indebted to anyone.

What they do in France or Italy is completely irrelevant IMO, but even if you are to draw comparisons in Ireland we seem to be charged high tolls for very little road.

ie. you would support a government abolision of road tolls and an increase in income tax by an appropriate amount to make up the difference?

maidhc

Sandwich wrote:

ie. you would support a government abolision of road tolls and an increase in income tax by an appropriate amount to make up the difference?

Pretty much.

Fuel duty would be a more sensible approach though. No one would be avoiding motorways then, less cars would be going through towns and villages, less children would be getting knocked down outside schools, etc etc etc...

Stark

endplate wrote:

So the cost of wear and tear on your car extra fuel used from longer distance travelled and time lost due to longer distance and lower speed limit is not worth the measley sum of €2.60 for the convenience you get

Honestly, in the case of the M4 toll, I don't think so. I think you save something like 10 mins journey time.

The M8 and M1 tolls are worth paying imo but not the M4 one.

Avns1s

JHMEG wrote:

I heard some plank TD going on about how much fuel he would save by going the M4 (and toll).

I travel the M4/N4 monthly and I know that not only will I save the cost of the toll by going the old road, but I also save a noticeable amount of fuel (and the environment) by not travelling at 120km/h for half my journey.

Of course, it's not illegal to drive at 80 km/h on the motorway to save fuel though you'll probably get a lot of puzzled and even irate looks!:D

Stark

Bypasses definitely shouldn't be tolled. They're there for the benefit of people living in the bypassed towns and villages, not just the motorists who use the road.

maidhc

Stark wrote:

Bypasses definitely shouldn't be tolled. They're there for the benefit of people living in the bypassed towns and villages, not just the motorists who use the road.

When they opened the Fermoy bypass they effectively diverted hundreds of trucks past the national school in Watergrasshill. They ensured that people not paying the toll would also be diverted through a village already bypassed using taxpayers money.

It shows that despite all the talk about road safety, speeding and RBT, the people who decide these matters have no scruples about weighing life against toll income.

There is now a roadblock stopping cars going up past the school, but the trucks (including those owned by An Post, who don't do tolls) still go through part of the village.

It really really sickens me.

mukki

endplate wrote:

As for Mukki inflation is a terrible thing but your pay rises will cover it:p

it will be harder for me to get "employe of the month!"

kluivert

I dont mind paying tolls. I believe that once the development costs have been recoup then the tolls should be removed.

Realistic terms of tolls should be inforced by the department of transport ie the lenght of time toll bridge are to remain open, ie five years etc.

I agree with the points highlighted above.

Why do we pay;

Road Tax.
*VRT.
Excise on Petrol.

If we are going to be provide proper roads from private developers and then be charged by them as well, why pay for the above.

* Illegal taxation by our government IMO.

I will be buying my next car in the North and it will be registered to a Northern Address, feck this government.