PC based recording set up

Maccattack

I have been recording on a Roland VS1680 for the last few years and have a load of external effects, a EMU P2K synth etc but im thinking of moving over to PC.

Thing is I know very little about it.

I know I need a PC (duh)
a sound card
recording software
I know i can replace the P2K with a software version
but thats about it.

Although i use the synth a bit it is mainly guitar based stuff im doing so i need to be sure i can record guitars drums etc.

can anyone give me some direction on what i need to consider?

squibs

The first thing is that the PC will be more difficult to use (the price to pay for all that extra functionality). You'll need to have a bit of tech savvy and enjoy learning large software apps. You'll need to be prepared to spend the forst months with a manual in each hand and the next number of months with the guitar in one hand and a mouse in the other.

Having said that it's well worth it - a PC can do incredible stuff.

If you are happy to do your drums on the PC, you can get some great results with BFD, Steinberg Virtual Drummer, Rayzoon Jamstix, and others. Most of these come with great acoustic samples and a drum brain that will play along like a real drummer. For straight rock and ballads they are excellent. For prog rock 12/7 shuffles they are not so great. Try some demos.

If you can live with the above, you'll only need a stereo in/out coundcard. Give some thought as to whether you need a condensor mic and preamp with phantom power. If a dynamic mic will do you, a soundcard with a decent internal preamp will suffice. You'll probably also want midi in/out on the soundcard to leverage your proteus. if you have spdif digital output in any part of your guitar rig, spdif capacity on your soundcard will help. It's just spooky to hear an electric guitar with zero noise.

With the PC - the more powerful the better, especially if you are using software samplers and instruments.

For recording purposes, Audacity is free but limited.

Sonar home studio, Cubase SE, Traktion, N-Track all come reccomended. You might be able to get a soundcard with a software bundle which will prove very cost effective.

Maccattack

Thanks for the excellent reply

The first thing is that the PC will be more difficult to use (the price to pay for all that extra functionality). You'll need to have a bit of tech savvy and enjoy learning large software apps. You'll need to be prepared to spend the forst months with a manual in each hand and the next number of months with the guitar in one hand and a mouse in the other.

Having said that it's well worth it - a PC can do incredible stuff.

No probs there.

If you are happy to do your drums on the PC, you can get some great results with BFD, Steinberg Virtual Drummer, Rayzoon Jamstix, and others. Most of these come with great acoustic samples and a drum brain that will play along like a real drummer. For straight rock and ballads they are excellent. For prog rock 12/7 shuffles they are not so great. Try some demos.

Any of them have decent pre set patterns?

Ive heard some things done with BFD and Drumkit from hell. Not 100% convincing to my ear (former drummer) but very good.

At the moment I have a clavia ddrum 4 unit that I play/record live via roland pads.

I wonder if I could incorporate that some how. It has excellent dynamics that give drum tracks a VERY realistic sound and feel.

It would be great to be able to edit a midi map that has been played live then run it back through the ddrum. But I want to slim things down as much as poss because one of the main reasons for changing to PC is because im moving country and cant take too much with me.If you can live with the above, you'll only need a stereo in/out coundcard. Give some thought as to whether you need a condensor mic and preamp with phantom power. If a dynamic mic will do you, a soundcard with a decent internal preamp will suffice. You'll probably also want midi in/out on the soundcard to leverage your proteus. if you have spdif digital output in any part of your guitar rig, spdif capacity on your soundcard will help. It's just spooky to hear an electric guitar with zero noise.

I have several mics including condensers so would need a pre amp. Do soundcards come with these?

As for the proteus I was thinking of switching to the software version Emulator X. I think I would need a separate soundcard for that(?)

What about output? Do I need an amp and monitors or just monitors?

cornbb

Maccattack wrote:

Any of them have decent pre set patterns?

You get decent preset kits with such drum machines. As for patterns, I'd suggest downloading MIDI drum files to get started, there are thousands of such free files on the web.

I wonder if I could incorporate that some how. It has excellent dynamics that give drum tracks a VERY realistic sound and feel.

Get a soundcard/audio interface (same thing) with MIDI I/O, assuming your pads have a MIDI output then this will enable you to record realistic drumming into your sequencer.

have several mics including condensers so would need a pre amp. Do soundcards come with these?

Most half decent audio interfaces come with phantom power, which is required for condensers, so you wouldn't have a problem there.

As for the proteus I was thinking of switching to the software version Emulator X. I think I would need a separate soundcard for that(?)

You would need a good soundcard/audio interface to get the best out of this software, but between the MIDI I/O and the phantom power I think we've already established that you need one of these

What about output? Do I need an amp and monitors or just monitors?

You have 2 choices: you can get passive monitors and a separate amplifier, or you can buy active monitors which have their own in-built amps.

squibs

Re the drum software, most of the below have preset patterns. The one I use - rayzoon, also allows you to program rule based patterns and will play variations on that for a human feel. You have fine control over ghost strokes, whether to use side stick instead of snare when playing softly. Impossible to describe all the feature - download the demo at rayzoon.com. With a little tweaking, it will fool even a drummer so long as the patterns are not too ambitious.

You'll definitely be able to incorporate the roland pads. If you have more than one midi device you will probably need an audio/midi interface with multiple midi ports, or a standalone midi interface with multiple midi IOs. I'm not familiar with the clavia - but I assume its a drum sampler/synth. If so you can incorporate it into your rig, and have your midi sequencer drive it.

If you have condensors, you must have a preamp of some sort already that gives them a 48v power supply? Can you use whatever you're using to output to the soundcard? Maybe you have an analogue mixing desk with phantom power and direct outs?

If you are using the software proteus, yes you'll need a soundcard, the same soundcard that can be used for everything else. So basically how many audio ins and outs do you need? Likewise with MIDI?

If you buy active monitors, the amp is built into the speaker enclosure. Passive monitors will need a standalone amp.

squibs

@Cornbb: D'oh! Beat me to it.

Fingers Mcginty

n track is great. It's what i use mostly. Didn't really take to cakewalk or cubase. Don't get me wrong they are great programs in themselves but a little complex for what i want to do which is basically just laying down a few tracks. I was using a portastudio prior to this and am used to hitting record and playing.
I found with the others i was spending too much time getting used to the software and not enough time with ma guitar!

Maccattack

Thanks for the informative answers. You are making things much clearer for me.

I will check out rayzoon. It sounds interesting.

Im trying to condense my gear as much as possible so I have less to ship. If I do go for a PC based option I will probably wait til I get to Oz to buy the stuff I need.

The VS 1680 has phantom power and I also have a compressor with phantom power which I use for my main vocal mic. But ill prob sell all that so would need to make sure my sound card has that.

For monitoring I currently have a Samson servo amp and tannoy monitors. I guess I could sell both to buy active monitors.


The drums worry me. The ddrum brain is quite big and obviously so is the kit. Not sure what to do there. Maybe sell and replace when I get there.


What are your experiences with mixing and fiddling on screen? Its not totally necessary to have a console anymore is it?

Have you had any experience with pro tools?

Can you recommend some sound cards with plenty of inputs.

Ie: ¼ “, spdif, midi, xlr . plus EXCELLENT sound quality. Pro quality.

And lastly. Would I need to buy a music specific pc or any good spec one. I heard some processors aren’t too good for audio.

Thanks for the advice.

cornbb

squibs wrote:

@Cornbb: D'oh! Beat me to it.

Hehe. I've got your back man

cornbb

Maccattack wrote:

What are your experiences with mixing and fiddling on screen? Its not totally necessary to have a console anymore is it?

Pissing around with a mouse can be a pain in the arse. It might be an idea to pick up a control surface, this looks like a mixer but basically acts as a remote control for controlling faders etc on your screen.

Have you had any experience with pro tools?

Yep, its the biz when it comes to audio recording/production but if you are making electronic music or using lots of MIDI I'd recommend Cubase or something like that. Pro Tools is bloody expensive too

Can you recommend some sound cards with plenty of inputs.

Ie: ¼ “, spdif, midi, xlr . plus EXCELLENT sound quality. Pro quality.

I've got an E-MU 1616, its got all of that stuff and its the dogs bollix (or at least I think so). Only 2 XLR/phantom power inputs though. You can go for the 1616m with mastering grade converters if you wanna splash out plenty of cash

Maccattack

Ill take your word that the 1616 is good.

i had a look at thomann and they have a emulator x package with the 1616m for about 460 quid.

the interface looks like its external. would that be for a laptop?

whtas the dif between PCI and PCMCIA. what do these terms mean?



prob a stupid question but am i right in thinking that i would no longer need a DI box for recording bass n stuff?

cornbb

PCI is for a desktop PC and PCMCIA is for a laptop. The box you see is external in both cases, it hooks up with the PCI (or PCMCIA) card with an ethernet cable. Here's the PCI version: http://www.musicworksdistribution.com/images/producten/emu-1616pci_500_ffffff.jpg This particular E-MU soundcard comes with onboard DSP power and loads of included plugins, which means you can use these plugins as VSTs or whatever without drawing extra resources from your CPU. Which is very nice indeed.

Maccattack

cornbb wrote:

I've got an E-MU 1616, its got all of that stuff and its the dogs bollix (or at least I think so). Only 2 XLR/phantom power inputs though. You can go for the 1616m with mastering grade converters if you wanna splash out plenty of cash

Is there a Mac version of the 1616. I cant find it anywhere...

cornbb

Nope fraid not. That among other things was actually one of the factors that stopped me from switching to Mac, didn't fancy having to buy a new interface too.

Maccattack

that sucks. I was planning on going Mac. I suppose ill have to keep my P2K now...