Poker Books - Intermediate Level

dvdfan

Hi,

Ive been playing STT's since probably October and moved through the levels to the $20 which i do well at. Tried $50 level twice but i was under bankrolled both times and ran bad first time, second time done alot better but decided to drop back to $20 until i build a bigger bankroll.

Ive decided i want to start playing cash games. In truth i find them boring compared to STT's as i never seem to lose or win more than 1-2 Buyins within an hour or two. I dont like to play more than 2 tables at a time.

Ill describe my play,weaknesses etc to give you a better idea of what book might suit me better.

Anyway i like to play Tight Agressive, Ive read Harringtons first 2 books but no other poker books and i want to read a couple of poker books on cash games now that im going to give it a go. I want to start at 10c/25c and work my way up as high as possible but im not in too much of a hurry as i want a solid bankroll for each level. My biggest weakness is probably Calculating Pot Odds, Im very happy with my preflop play in STT's but there might be a different concept for cash games, ive still a bit to learn on position as i dont think i realise its full importance. Post flop i think ive alot to learn but im probably intermediate.

I know this is been done to death so im not going to ask what are the best books. Ive gone through all the old threads and came up with 2 books.

Skalansky's Theory Of Poker
Phil Gordons Little Green Book

These seem to be the most popular when recommendations are giving out, do you think these would suit or would you recommend something else. I dont mind buying 3 or 4 different books if i can learn a small bit from each. Lastly would it matter what order i read the books in or is one more advanced than the other.

Thanks
DvdFan

hotspur

Negreanu's Power Hold EM Strategy is out in aabout a week's time, I believe it has contributions from 10 top players. Could well be good. Didn't Sklansky and Miller do a NL cash hold em book? Anyone think it's any good?

Scouser in Dub

Skalnskys Theory of Poker is really generic but a very valuable read, it introduces some very valuable concepts in a way that applies to all poker not just NLHE. It is a bit limit centred at times.

NLHE Theory and Practice by Sklansky and Miller is excellent, imo is the best stratgey book I have bought.

1/2 buyins in 1/2 hours is boring?

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

DeadParrot

I've noticed you're TAG tendencies when we've played dvdfan. If you want slanksy's I have it on pdf. Its a bit bulky (14mb) so gmail would be what you'd need.

Actually, have a look at rapidshare, that's where I got mine

Hitman Actual

If you're not up to speed with pot odds, etc, then I guarantee you that the Sklansky/Miller book will be quite tough. But it's definately the best book out there at the moment for NLHE cash. One of the few other book out there for big bet poker is "Pot-limit and No-limit poker" by Ciaffone and Reuben. Haven't read it in a while but I think there's a lot of decent material there, and it covers plenty of other games as well.

Phil Gordons book is really a tournament book, imo, and doesn't cover anything that you won't find in Harrington. It's really just an insight into how Gordon plays. A nice quick read though.

One of the best resources is the SSNL forum on 2+2 and that's a really good place to start:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3239210&an=0&page=0#Post3239210

Flipper

hotspur wrote:

Negreanu's Power Hold EM Strategy is out in aabout a week's time, I believe it has contributions from 10 top players. Could well be good. Didn't Sklansky and Miller do a NL cash hold em book? Anyone think it's any good?

Is this out already? I bought it through a link on full contact about 3 weeks ago. Delivery was pretty quick. It's actually not bad. Would be ideal for intermediate players. Very easy to read and well laid out.

opr

Flipper wrote:

Is this out already? I bought it through a link on full contact about 3 weeks ago. Delivery was pretty quick. It's actually not bad. Would be ideal for intermediate players. Very easy to read and well laid out.

Did they release it on Full Tilt early ?? I checked a few of the shipping websites and it has not been released yet.

Does it look like this ?

http://www.amazon.com/Daniel-Negreanus-Power-Holdem-Strategy/dp/1580422047

Opr

Flipper

opr wrote:

Did they release it on Full Tilt early ?? I checked a few of the shipping websites and it has not been released yet.

Does it look like this ?

http://www.amazon.com/Daniel-Negreanus-Power-Holdem-Strategy/dp/1580422047

Opr

No... It looks like this: http://cardsharkmedia.com/book.html.

Maybe i'm on about a differnet one but this is still not bad

dvdfan

Scouser in Dub wrote:

1/2 buyins in 1/2 hours is boring?

No its just sometimes i could be playing for 2-3 hours and after buying in at the max (€40 for 10c/25c on tribeca and half the players are usually shortstacked) i often might be up or down €10-€20 euro's. This is boring for me and i sometimes start playing hands i shouldnt out of bordem and bluffing when i shouldnt and give up and go back to STT's. Maybe i need more patients and maybe ive too much expectations from reading about people who easily move through the levels. I'd feel comfortable playing at 20c/50c €100 buyin but i know i need to start beating the 10c/25c level first. Cash Games are very different to SNG's but i can win €100+ in a good 3 hour session single tabling if i hit a good run but winning €10-€20 on cash games after that long dosent seem to get my adreniline going.

This is why i want to start reading about cash game startegy's, maybe im doing alot of things wrong but i get very fustrated playing for 30 mins card dead then i get AA and KK and only get action from 1-2 shortstacks.

phantom_lord

Amazon doesn't take payments via neteller by chance does it? Is there any simple way of topping up a paypal account with neteller?

opr

dvdfan wrote:

This is why i want to start reading about cash game startegy's, maybe im doing alot of things wrong but i get very fustrated playing for 30 mins card dead then i get AA and KK and only get action from 1-2 shortstacks.

I agree with the rest that NLHE thoery and pratice is an excellent book and also i would take a look at a little know book called supersystem. Supposely some guy that is pretty good at poker wrote it.
The link lenny posted is excellent. Included is this link which has some great advice on the level your playing at now.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=ssplnlpoker&Number=1618086

Do you multitable ? If not why not ? Do you play 6max or full ring ?


Flipper - No i don't think that is the new cash book that is coming out.

Opr

dvdfan

I play full ring, i dont play more than 2 table for a couple of reasons. 1) I like to take notes rather than depend solely on stats. Trying to read these notes to refesh myself on what type of plays he makes while 4 tabling would not be maintainable. 2)I said earlier in the post that one of my weaknesses was pot odds, i understand pot odds and can work them out on paper not under pressure but sometimes when the maths are bit tricker and i have 2 tables flashing and i have 30 secs i cant get my head around it.

I have a good awareness of what outs a flush,straight etc have off by heart but its just doing the multiplication under time pressure. Im actually good at maths as long as i can see it on a page and write it out but in my head im not as strong. When it comes to working out equity and how many times i need the player to fold/call to make the move profitable then forget about... i'd need 5 mins not 30 seconds.

I can make more 1 tabling than 4 tabling sng's simply because i think i use my notes well which i cant do multitabling and i play bad and make wrong decisions under pressure when multitabling that i wouldnt make 1 tabling. I can 2 table cash games because its always full rings but when i do that on sng's i start to play bad when i enivitably get shorthanded at one of the tables.

I'll defo check out that link and i got my hands on a a good few poker ebooks so ive alot of reading to do ...Thanks

Mr. Flibble

dvdfan, you probably have heard this before but incase not: to calculate your win % quickly from your outs multiply your outs by 4 if there are 2 cards to come and by 2 if there is one card to come.

So say you have AhKh and the board is JhQs2h4c and you thing you are up against a set. You have 7 flush outs and 3 straight outs (not counting the Th twice), so 10x2 = 20%.
On the flop you would have around 40%.

Do you use poker tracker. I suggest using it and GT+/PAHUD and getting used to the stats.

opr

dvdfan wrote:

I play full ring, i dont play more than 2 table for a couple of reasons. 1) I like to take notes rather than depend solely on stats. Trying to read these notes to refesh myself on what type of plays he makes while 4 tabling would not be maintainable.

One of the things you said is that you get bored pretty easily and full ring has alot to do with patience. I would consider switching to 6max. Generally you will play more hands and need to get involved more. You will also have many more interesting decisions. In the sticky link in this forum you will find a post from Fuzzbox that is excellent on the fundamentals of 6max play.

Note taking is invaluable i just wonder are you going over board. I mean you can do alot of stuff to cut down the time this takes. Also you want notes that you can read at a glance. Heres a good thread on notes.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=6331669&an=0&page=2#Post6331669

dvdfan wrote:

2)I said earlier in the post that one of my weaknesses was pot odds, i understand pot odds and can work them out on paper not under pressure but sometimes when the maths are bit tricker and i have 2 tables flashing and i have 30 secs i cant get my head around it.

I mean if this is really bothering you a number of programs can help you out here.
But i mean all you need to do is think about how many out you have. Then use something called the 2-4 rule. It works like this multiply your outs by 4 for the turn and river or by 2 for just the river. So lets say i have 9 outs i am about 36% to hit with the turn and river left to come but only 18% with the river. You then just equate this to the pot odds to see if a call is good or bad.

dvdfan wrote:

When it comes to working out equity and how many times i need the player to fold/call to make the move profitable then forget about... i'd need 5 mins not 30 seconds.

First the fact that you are thinking about this at all is great it means when you are making a decision its not just a blind push with draws.

I don't know too many people that can do these calculations in their head. Its all about practice. After a while you will find the same kind of situtions come up over and over. So if you go back over sessions and make the calculations you will learn from this.
I mean thinking about it logically the more equity my hand has and the less i am betting into the pot the lower his fold percentage has to be.
So like if i am all in for around a pot size bet (We will usually be making pot sized bets or a bit more) with about 40% equity i am basically freerolling. Remember equity is just the number of times we will hit our draw.

If you would like me to do a few example thats no problem.

dvdfan wrote:

I can make more 1 tabling than 4 tabling sng's simply because i think i use my notes well which i cant do multitabling and i play bad and make wrong decisions under pressure when multitabling that i wouldnt make 1 tabling. I can 2 table cash games because its always full rings but when i do that on sng's i start to play bad when i enivitably get shorthanded at one of the tables.

I mean generally you will be folding so many hands in a 6 max cash game that if you are playing two of them it should not put you under to much pressure.

Opr

Brayruit

opr wrote:

The link lenny posted is excellent. Included is this link which has some great advice on the level your playing at now.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=ssplnlpoker&Number=1618086

hadn't seen this before... eggselent link

Quote from fimbulwinter: CAVEAT: THIS WORKS FOR ME, IT MAY NOT FOR YOU. THIS ASSUMES YOU'RE EXPERIENCED ENOUGH TO PLAY A POSSIBLY DOMINATED SUITED/CONNECTED/PAIRED HAND AND THAT YOU KNOW THE 5/10 RULE AND APPLY IT.

5/10 rule ???

Hitman Actual

Brayruit wrote:

hadn't seen this before... eggselent link

Quote from fimbulwinter: CAVEAT: THIS WORKS FOR ME, IT MAY NOT FOR YOU. THIS ASSUMES YOU'RE EXPERIENCED ENOUGH TO PLAY A POSSIBLY DOMINATED SUITED/CONNECTED/PAIRED HAND AND THAT YOU KNOW THE 5/10 RULE AND APPLY IT.

5/10 rule ???

See this thread. The answer is there somewhere!

Brayruit

lenny_leonard wrote:

See this thread. The answer is there somewhere!

Got it thx...

If you think you're behind, normally only call with a pp if its for less than 5% of your stack. If its less than 10% of your stack, a call can be considered depending on the other factors.

valor

dont read poker books

Brayruit

valor wrote:

dont read poker books

yeah but no but yeah but no but yeah but...

I can think of lots of reasons not to read poker books, but...

• Read them to maybe learn a different way of thinking about the game... that you can then happily partly or fully reject
• Read them to see how people who read poker books play

... seem reasonable?

Brayruit

... and another thing...

A lot of people who post here say that reading this board (and 2+2, and possibly a few others) is much better than reading poker books - makes sense to me, especially reading the post mortems of some of the excellent contributors

But surely some of what is learnt here could also be picked up from a well written book in a potentially more organised way... maybe fimbulwhatever's advice would be a good chapter?