Credit Card Debt

exCrumlinBoyo

Quick Question Guys,

I have not been living in Ireland for the past 5 years. At the time of leaving to live in the States it was all done fairly quickly and not much time to arrange much.

When I left I had some credit card debt with two companies which at the time totaled to around 5000 euro. I have never made any attempt to pay this off.

My question is, what do companies do in this type of situation? Is there a time frame in which they give up hope of recovering the debt? Will my accounts still be accruing Interest? I know my credit is shot, but how long dose something last like that on your credit report….

I don’t plan on moving back to Ireland any time soon, but may do in the future.

Anyone with any info I would greatly appreciate it.

I was given both cards by the banks when I was 19 years of age. I enquired about them, but decided not to peruse them and they just sent me out the cards. I was young and stupid and looked at it as free money. My mum over the years has collected several letters attempting to collect the debt, but they have since stopped sending them.

Thanks again.

dumbyearbook

Your going to end up in prison, they could arrest you as you step off a plane in Dublin or Shannon and take you to court and then when you can't pay you declare yourself bankrupt and you'll never be able to talk to a bank again.

Of course im just guessing but i would nt rush back......my mate had loans in the UK they tracked him down and sent debt collectors letters - he paid his dues basically, lots of ppl have silly debt from when they were young, we dont all bugger off and leave it after us - guys like you are what makes it difficult for others to get loans

Ruu_Old

I don't have much of an answer to your query. Will it even show up on your credit report when you go to apply for any card in the US? I am thinking not. I had to start from scratch meaning I had nothing on my credit history when moving to the US, my BOI Mastercard meant nothing, nor my loans or anything else back in Ireland that I had paid off and closed. I had to get a secured credit card to start off with.

exCrumlinBoyo

dumbyearbook wrote:

Your going to end up in prison, they could arrest you as you step off a plane in Dublin or Shannon and take you to court and then when you can't pay you declare yourself bankrupt and you'll never be able to talk to a bank again.

Of course im just guessing but i would nt rush back......my mate had loans in the UK they tracked him down and sent debt collectors letters - he paid his dues basically, lots of ppl have silly debt from when they were young, we dont all bugger off and leave it after us - guys like you are what makes it difficult for others to get loans

Thanks for your input.....

exCrumlinBoyo

Ruu wrote:

I don't have much of an answer to your query. Will it even show up on your credit report when you go to apply for any card in the US? I am thinking not. I had to start from scratch meaning I had nothing on my credit history when moving to the US, my BOI Mastercard meant nothing, nor my loans or anything else back in Ireland that I had paid off and closed. I had to get a secured credit card to start off with.

This is what is messed up Ruu…. I have a 710 credit rating over here in the States. I can walk into any bank and they are throwing money at me. I have a mortgage and a car payment, credit cards ect. The only difference now is that I am not 19……

I started fresh also when I got over here and my bank loaned me $500 and I paid it back and it all started there

Our man in Havana

dumbyearbook wrote:

Your going to end up in prison, they could arrest you as you step off a plane in Dublin or Shannon and take you to court and then when you can't pay you declare yourself bankrupt and you'll never be able to talk to a bank again.

Would never happen. Tis a civil matter and the Gardai couldn't care less tbh. They don't keep lists of bad debtors at Dublin or Shannon. If they ever got a commital warrant (which I seriously doubt) it would require the bank to know you were in the country before they could execute the warrant. More than likely the matter has gone into the deep freeze and won't be raised again unless someone digs it up again eg you apply for banking services. You won't be completly safe until 12 years have passed.

dermot_sheehan

A bank has 6 years from a breach of contract to issue proceedings to enforce that contract (i.e. sue for the debt). This is a civil matter. Bear in mind they may have issued proceedings while you were away in which case the clock stops. In addition if you issue any written acknowledgement of the debt the 6 year clock resets.

How long the irish credit bureau www.icb.ie keeps a record of the debt is a different matter.

This is a civil matter, not criminal.

Our man in Havana

Isn't there only a 12 year window to enforce a judgment? Also if the OP could not be found and all his post was returned wouldn't the banks have a job to even get a judgment in the first place? IE would they have to prove proper service of documents etc?

exCrumlinBoyo

Thanks for all the info.

Does anyone know if interest keeps on accumulating on the accounts? In other words if I decided to tackle the issue would I be in for a shock to find the amount I now owe to be something outrageous?

Jo King

Interest keeps accumulating. The banks have your date of birth etc and if you come back they will be on to you. They may be entitled to the last six years interest even if the main debt becomes statute-barred. You can ask for your file from the credit control bureau. If it shows a debt against you every lender will be aware of it. The bank may negotiate. If you contacted them and offered a sum in full and final settlement they may accept it.

dermot_sheehan

Bond-007 wrote:

Isn't there only a 12 year window to enforce a judgment? Also if the OP could not be found and all his post was returned wouldn't the banks have a job to even get a judgment in the first place? IE would they have to prove proper service of documents etc?

12 year statute of limitations for land and contracts under seal, 6 for simple contracts.

this is time to issue proceedings though,

sh_o

gabhain7 wrote:

12 year statute of limitations for land and contracts under seal, 6 for simple contracts.

this is time to issue proceedings though,

6 years for the bank to bring proceedings against you. If they bring proceedings and get judgement against you, then they have 12 years to enforce this.

Two parts of the Statute of limitations Act, 1957 are relevant here:
11.—(1) The following actions shall not be brought after the expiration of six years from the date on which the cause of action accrued—
( a ) actions founded on simple contract;

(6) ( a ) An action shall not be brought upon a judgment after the expiration of twelve years from the date on which the judgment became enforceable.

Jo King

Interest keeps being added to a debt and the cause of action accrues for that amount of money at that time so the bank can always get the last six years interest. Even a judgement will not stop this.

sh_o

Jo King wrote:

Interest keeps being added to a debt and the cause of action accrues for that amount of money at that time so the bank can always get the last six years interest. Even a judgement will not stop this.

I presume it would not be the interest pursuant to the contract in the case of a judgment as surely the contract is then at an end?
Would it just be interest pursuant to section 22 of the Courts Act 1981 (if expressly pleaded)?
Or would it be on a restitution type 'unjust enrichment' basis?

Jo King

Banks sometimes do not seek a judgement. If a judgement was obtained Courts Act interest would accrue on it. That would eventually become statute barred.

gerryok1

Hey excrumlin, the exact same hppened me, moved from Ireland, had 2K on one and 2.5K on another, like you thought it was free money. The best way to approach it is call or email the debt collectors or the bank in question. The interest will not have accrued from last bill.
All they will want back is the amount as in when
the account was closed. I was applying for a mortgage so I applied for my credit rating to the credit Bureau. To my suprise just one had been registered.
I called them and paid it off in two stages. It will stay on your credit history as paid in full and will come off after 3/4 years. Hope this helps.

Our man in Havana

Jo King wrote:

Banks sometimes do not seek a judgement. If a judgement was obtained Courts Act interest would accrue on it. That would eventually become statute barred.

Can they keep adding interest in excess of the courts act interest rates?

Tzetze

exCrumlinBoyo, as you probably know, you're far from being the only person in this situation. The bank has you exactly where it wants you. After throwing "free cash" at frivoulous, carefree youngsters, the banks get a firm grip when debts spiral out of control. The credit ends, and they pursue their "customer" through the law to ensure a steady income for many years while the customer is left to chip at the interest for who knows how long.

I was watching a Noam Chomsky lecture on youtube (link) where he scathed these kinds of actions by the banks of the world and by Bush, who almost two years ago, "adjusted" US Law to gain an even tighter grip on those who are in most need of financial help.

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7575010/ (April 2005) wrote:

WASHINGTON - President Bush signed the biggest rewrite of U.S. bankruptcy law in a quarter century on Wednesday, making it harder for debt-ridden Americans to wipe out their obligations.

“Bankruptcy should always be a last resort in our legal system,” Bush said. “If someone does not pay his or her debts the rest of society ends up paying them.”

Many debtors will have to work out repayment plans instead of having their obligations erased in bankruptcy court under the law, which will go into effect in six months.

Not much help to your original question, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

Jo King

Bond-007 wrote:

Can they keep adding interest in excess of the courts act interest rates?

They charge the interest rate provided in the original loan agreement. Courts Act interest only becomes relevant when a judgment has been obtained. there is a specific statuary provision forbidding action to recover it or any interest accumulated after 12 years.

Our man in Havana

So once judgment has been obtained they can only charge the court rate of interest?

johnnyskeleton

Bond-007 wrote:

Tis a civil matter and the Gardai couldn't care less tbh. You won't be completly safe until 12 years have passed.

Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) 2001 [Making off without payment]
8.—(1) Subject to subsection (2), a person who, knowing that payment on the spot for any goods obtained or any service done is required or expected, dishonestly makes off without having paid as required or expected and with the intention of avoiding payment on the spot is guilty of an offence.
[subsection (2) - doesn't apply to illegal payments]
...
(7) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on conviction on indictment to a fine not exceeding £3,000 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years or both.

Joe King wrote:

If a judgement was obtained Courts Act interest would accrue on it.

The courts act only really comes into play when there is no interest specified in the original agreement. If they obtained a judgment they could use the interest rate of the credit card, which I imagine is significantly more than the courts act. So they can still keep charging interest if they want.

Courts Act, 1981 [Power of court to order payment of interest on awards]
22.—(1) Where in any proceedings a court orders the payment by any person of a sum of money (which expression includes in this section damages), the judge concerned may, if he thinks fit, also order the payment by the person of interest at the rate per annum standing specified for the time being in section 26 of the Debtors (Ireland) Act, 1840, on the whole or any part of the sum in respect of the whole or any part of the period between the date when the cause of action accrued and the date of the judgement.

As to the OP's question if there is a time frame for which they give up on such debts, it really depends on the institution in question. For the recovery of debt there are limitations periods, but you should seek specific legal advice (i.e. from a solicitor) on this issue (because it depends on what the bank in question has done to try to recover the money). It may also be a criminal offence if you acted dishonestly or with an intent to defraud (depending on the circumstances and the date at which you left). However, it is up to the banks, and if you pissed them off they are more likely to chase you up on it.

In my personal (as opposed to legal) opinion, €5000 is a lot of money, even for banks. I'm surprized that they gave you so much money at 19. Did your parents or someone go guarantor for you? If they did, the bank may try to recover the money from them.

You could make enquires with the Irish credit bureau or with the banks, but you do so at your own risk.