LEARNER DRIVERS - Wear the plate?

md99

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md99

I know that many around motorway areas take theirs down to use them. Others do without them to avoid Garda attention.

I had them cut out for my first few months of driving, then got sick of them, don't have them now and can't complain

overdriver

I don't understand the mentality of people cutting their L-plates. You'rersupposed to have them up if you're an L-driver, by law, as they are and not modified to your particular tastes.

it's the usual Irish mentality of flaunting the rules because we "know better". The same as people driving round with front fogs on,or in illegally modded cars, or with loud exhausts etc etc.

seamus

overdriver wrote:

I don't understand the mentality of people cutting their L-plates. You'rersupposed to have them up if you're an L-driver, by law, as they are and not modified to your particular tastes.

Cutting them is for idiots. It's exactly as illegal as not having plates at all, so you shouldn't waste your time cutting them out in the belief that you're safe.

It's a little bit of a vicious circle this one.

1. There are too many people driving on provisional licences, day-to-day. Provisional licences should be for learning, not for commuting or popping down to the local shops.
2. Too many provisional drivers doing stupid things causes frustration for other drivers, many of whom then treat learners as second-class drivers and generally spend their time trying to get around them
3. Learners recognise that an L plate is akin to painting your car bright orange, and end up getting bullied and forced about the place, even when they're driving fine. So the remove their plates, the issue of being a learner drops away as a priority and they get lazy about getting their test/lessons*. Back to step 1

* Waiting lists are long, but there are huge numbers who haven't bothered applying for a test, or having failed a test, have a mental block against going straight back and trying again.

Seth Brundle

Should I add an option for those of us who have passed our tests?

@md99 - what was the logic of cutting them? Also you "got sick of them"? So what - put them back up!

Pherekydes

Why not rename the thread, "Learner Drivers: Obey the Rules of the Road and the Road Traffic Act?" :rolleyes:

Ronan|Raven

When I was on my provisional I used them at all times. Dont see the point in these half butchered plates on cars.

Idleater

seamus wrote:

... you shouldn't waste your time cutting them out in the belief that you're safe....
... Learners recognise that an L plate is akin to painting your car bright orange, and end up getting bullied and forced about the place, even when they're driving fine....

Here is the odd thing,

As a fully licensed motorcyclist (and cage driver) I have to be very aware of the types of driver driving every vehicle on the road in front and behind me.

When I am driving, and I see a L plated car, I automatically think "oh oo - learner ahead, this idiot is probably going to stall, not look in their mirror, not indicate, miss a gear etc etc etc".

If they do do something stupid, then my "stereotyping" of them has been vindicated because I can say to myself, well done for being aware of that.

On the other hand, if there is a learner in a non L-plated car, and they do something stupid (which is quite likely since they are learning but think they are good drivers), then everybody around them, goes and complains about "muppet in the fast lane", "muppet holding up the queue", "muppet not indicating" etc etc and starts internet threads about these topics.

Therefore, I am of the opinion, that if you have the L-plates properly displayed it gives some "excuse" for your bad driving. If you do anything wrong while you are a learner and have cut-out or no plates up, then you deserve to be hounded off the road by everyone else. If you think you are up to the cut and thrust of modern day irish driving, then live by the sword, die by the sword so to speak.

For the record, I have full L-plates up in my car, because although I am fully licensed, I do have a provisional driver learning in the car. I have never been hounded off the road by other road users, and when the learner is driving, I explain to them not to worry about the car behind, because you have L-Plates up - what does the car behind expect?
"OOOhhh a Learner obeying the speed limit and taking off slowly from the lights. Jeez never thought that would happen." :rolleyes:

L.

Lpfsox

as a learner driver (though test is coming up soon), I've got the full plates up in my car. I've found that for the most part, other drivers cut you some slack if you cut out/obey the rules (like slowing down and changing down gears for speedbumps etc) but there are some, and I'm looking at you Mr Fat Baldy Mercedes Driver, who do everything they can to intimidate you, pulling in close behind you on hills, overtaking you without any warning etc.

I think they forget that they were learners once too.

Gary ITR

Voted on behalf of the missus, full plate

Lpfsox

just one thing though:

like I said, having the L plate displayed usually means other drivers are a bit more patient however, I've recently had trouble with my car cutting out suddenly and losing power in low gears. I'm fairly sure that other drivers reckoned it was incompetence on my part rather than mechanical failure when I couldn't pull away from stop lights or just cut out suddenly but they're the breaks I suppose. Frustrating though.

miju

seamus wrote:

It's exactly as illegal as not having plates at all,

it's actually not once there is a 2cm white edge around the L , though have to agree with you can't understand people cutting them myself

seamus wrote:

Learners recognise that an L plate is akin to painting your car bright orange, and end up getting bullied and forced about the place, even when they're driving fine. So the remove their plates, the issue of being a learner drops away as a priority and they get lazy about getting their test/lessons

this would have been the reasoning for me not having L plates plus the fact that i didn't consider myself a learner driver either and i didnt need some stupid piece of paper to tell me either

though it's all good now cos i got my full license and passed first time with only 1 minor mark in my test

seamus

miju wrote:

it's actually not once there is a 2cm white edge around the L

I was sure I'd seen that requirement for a border written somewhere but I can't find it now.

The actual requirement is that the plate must be a rectangle, it must be at least 15cm high, and must have a red L on a white background, clearly visible.

So trimming the edges off the plate to make it smaller than 15cm, or removing the white background is equivalent to not having one at all.

Anan1

Lpfsox wrote:

just one thing though:

like I said, having the L plate displayed usually means other drivers are a bit more patient however, I've recently had trouble with my car cutting out suddenly and losing power in low gears. I'm fairly sure that other drivers reckoned it was incompetence on my part rather than mechanical failure when I couldn't pull away from stop lights or just cut out suddenly but they're the breaks I suppose. Frustrating though.

It doesn't matter what they thought, as long as they gave you a bit more room.;)

mik_da_man

Lpfsox wrote:

as a learner driver (though test is coming up soon), I've got the full plates up in my car. I've found that for the most part, other drivers cut you some slack if you cut out/obey the rules (like slowing down and changing down gears for speedbumps etc)

I'd agree with that.
I always would give a person with L plates a bit more slack and time to make maneouvers. I was a learner too

But saying that I only put my plates up on the day I did my test - when I passed they were straight off again

Mossy Monk

full plate for me

the L cut out looks retarded imo

RobertFoster

I don't understand people cutting their L plates either. Perhaps, if it's a tiny car and the plates block your vision, then maybe there's a reason...

What I really don't get it people putting their L plates on upside down. If you can't get that right, there's no hope for you

Cerdito

I think people cut the "L" out because they're embarassed at having L-Plates up, and this makes them less noticeable.

That said, the embarassment factor of having L-Plates can be a good motivator for passing the test!

John Mason

i never had my L-plates on so the simple reason, every idiot on the road thought it was okay to bully me. So in order to save the lives of other road users, it was better i took my plates because i was on the verge of getting out of my car and battering someone to death a jack

event

when i was a alearner, i had the full ones up, but still drove on the motorways

Hobbes

Only reason I can think someone might cut the L-Plates (or not have them up) that drivers who have been on the road for a long time act like complete tards with the person with the L-Plates.

If they pause for more then 2 seconds at a stop I've seen cars behind them flash them, blow the horn, try to overtake them or scream abuse.

Anan1

I kept mine up while I was learning. Gave me a good incentive to pass the test!

Fey!

I was made keep mine up while I was learning. Got rid of them when I passed my test just after my 18th birthday (many moons ago!!!!)

Stark

Hobbes wrote:

Only reason I can think someone might cut the L-Plates (or not have them up) that drivers who have been on the road for a long time act like complete tards with the person with the L-Plates.

If they pause for more then 2 seconds at a stop I've seen cars behind them flash them, blow the horn, try to overtake them or scream abuse.

I've had people blow the horn at me even when I react immediately to the lights. In fact, I've moved forward by the time they manage to sound the horn: difference between a twenty-something year old's reaction time and a forty-something year old's reaction time

That said, I haven't noticed much bullying with L-plates up. The kinds of people I have had hassle off are generally the kinds of people who hassle everyone they see to be "stealing my road space" so they can get to the shops quicker and bully whoever's behind the till.

overdriver

RobertFoster wrote:

I don't understand people cutting their L plates either. Perhaps, if it's a tiny car and the plates block your vision, then maybe there's a reason...

What I really don't get it people putting their L plates on upside down. If you can't get that right, there's no hope for you

Can't you stick them to the body of the car in that case?

Volvoboy

Had them up for a week when i first started driving, that was last febuary, getting my test soon. The guards dont enforce it enough.


-VB-

Rippy

I would say a lot of people leave them off as they are driving solo instead of having qualified driver with them. Many learners in this country totally ignore ALL conditions of prov. licence and the Guards do feck all!
Also why do learners on bikes not have to display plates? I did in England. (also restricted to 125cc).

dudara

I have the full plates up, hopefully not for long as the test is Monday.

I don't like having them up though as sometimes I do feel that other drivers are cutting me up purely because of the plates. But I think Stark's point is valid there, they probably are the kind of drivers who cut every one up.

md99

To answer your questions (in the first page) regarding the L plates, their butchering and neglect, and why.... from a learner drivers perspective.

There are numerous reasons why this is done, the first of which being the fact that learner drivers want to hide the fact that they're learner drivers. This is especially common in adult provisionals. Some are embarrassed.

It's common in younger drivers too, who are either
(i) afraid of Garda inspection,
(ii) afraid of 'bullying' from other drivers,
(iii) wanting to use the motorways,
(iv) in the case of those more experienced learner drivers who have been driving well for quite some time - not wanting to be labelled in the same category as the countless clowns and boy racers you see around wearing the same plates

Then of course there's the simple fact that
(v) a car with no L plates looks more attractive than a car with L plates.

Many people take them down so as not to (materially) devaluate their vehicles. Some are proud of their vehicles and dislike the cheapening effect of the L plates.

For me, it is a mixture of (iv) and (v)

There is a sixth reason which is less common but must be considered irregardless.

(vi) People think it's cool to break the rules, and many drive without their plates for attention and 'respect' from their peers....

Del2005

nereid wrote:

For the record, I have full L-plates up in my car, because although I am fully licensed, I do have a provisional driver learning in the car. I have never been hounded off the road by other road users, and when the learner is driving, I explain to them not to worry about the car behind, because you have L-Plates up - what does the car behind expect?
"OOOhhh a Learner obeying the speed limit and taking off slowly from the lights. Jeez never thought that would happen." :rolleyes:

L.

Sorry to break the news to you Nereid, you are breaking the law when you drive your car. A fully licenced driver can't drive with L plates displayed. Can't find the law, but when I was learning in the artic any time we dropped the trailer my instructor took the L plates down

Many people take them down so as not to (materially) devaluate their vehicles. Some are proud of their vehicles and dislike the cheapening effect of the L plates.

How does a piece of plastic on the window devalue a car?

md99

Del2005 wrote:

How does a piece of plastic on the window devalue a car?

I said materially. Think before you talk.

I HATE time wasting questions like this. I may be a provisional driver but that doesn't mean all my posts are meaningless and there to be taken apart.

Hagar

md99 wrote:

Many people take them down so as not to (materially) devaluate their vehicles.

Get down off your "L Plated" high horse young fellow.
That sentence is crying out to be taken apart.
Materially means "in a significant or important manner".
I couldn't find a meaning for "devaluate".

An "L plate" is removable so it has no material effect on the value of a vehicle. Unless you have nailed it on or something stupid like that.
I'm guessing what you are trying to say is "Many people take them down so as not cosmetically devalue their vehicles". Although given the number of other stickers often seen on cars driven by some learners the point is moot.

Saruman

When i was a learner in 98 i had them on all the time! I drove on motorways too after i figured out the the garda do not care. Probably because there are too many provisional drivers but also because the person driving is not always a learner and you cant just take them off and put them back on... well i could since i printed them out for free and put them on with blue tac

Not doing poll as it does not apply to me any more.

miju

Hagar wrote:

Materially means "in a significant or important manner".
I couldn't find a meaning for "devaluate".

i'd say he meant it takes away from the aestethics of the car hagar

Saruman wrote:

Not doing poll as it does not apply to me any more.

booo , hisss , spoilsport

Idleater

Del2005 wrote:

Sorry to break the news to you Nereid, you are breaking the law when you drive your car. A fully licenced driver can't drive with L plates displayed. Can't find the law, but when I was learning in the artic any time we dropped the trailer my instructor took the L plates down

Well do everyone a favour and find the law? I have had a quick browse of the statute book and have only found requirements of provisional drivers to have the L Plates up, but none that state that full license holders must not display them.

I find it extremely hard to believe what you state to be true.

For the basic reason that for example a Learner Bus/ Instructor Car/van/truck, all have bit L plates painted onto them.

In the hypothetic instance that a trainee for example becomes ill while out on the road, does the fully qualified driver/instructor beside them drive the vehicle home? Or do they sit there in the middle of the road waiting for another trainee to get a taxi out so that they can drive the vehicle back to the garage?

L.

Stark

It's the law in the UK that you can't have L-plates up when it's a fully licenced driver driving. I used to be of the opinion that it was the same here, but I haven't been able to find any law for it either.

Usually when I see a saloon car with L-plates and someone over 40 driving, I tend to assume they're the parent of a learner rather than a learner themselves. Which makes it a bit stupid for people to be driving around without them because they're ashamed to be seeing as an "oldie with a provo".

godtabh

I drove with them up when I was an L-Driver. I'm not any more. Edit : a learner driver

But L-plates can damage your car. Stick them on metal parts and the piece covered by the l-plate wont be affect by the UV light and wont seem faded compared to other parts of the car (may only apply to older cars)

When I took down my l-plates the out line of it was "burned" on to the windows. Hasn't come off yet despite washing it but I'm not bothered. If I was selling it I would probably make more of an effort

gobby

Got my licence this month so not a learner anymore. I'm 26 by the way. I had started driving when I was 19.

I was in a crash. Wasn't serious and was my fault (through inexperience). So the insurance went up and I didn't drive again until last year.

Back in the day (when I was 19) I had the L plates up alright but for the past year I didn't. The only day I put them up was for my test. Passed first time and took them straight down again.

I voted 'no' in the poll as most recently I didn't have them up but my situation is a little strange (ie. driving for maybe 1 year when I was 19 then not again until I was 25).

voxpop

One of the reasons for cutting around the L is because you can fail the NCT because the full L-Plate is "blocking visibility"

Stark

Could people not just take them down for the NCT?

Vegeta

everyone is always a "learner" driver, the day you've seen everything on the road or cannot improve a single aspect of your driving is the day satan needs an over coat.

Just because you have a full license does not mean you know everything and have nothing left to learn.

I am a provisional license holder and display my plates.

overdriver

voxpop wrote:

One of the reasons for cutting around the L is because you can fail the NCT because the full L-Plate is "blocking visibility"

That's a ridiculous excuse. They come down and go up in seconds. When you park your car at the NCT centre take them down. Put them back up before you drive out - hopefully with your cert in hand!

voxpop

overdriver wrote:

That's a ridiculous excuse. They come down and go up in seconds. When you park your car at the NCT centre take them down. Put them back up before you drive out - hopefully with your cert in hand!

Well if the L-Plate is offically blocking visibility then are you not safer to remove some of the white backing and pass the NCT rather than removing the L-Plate for the test and then putting it back thus blocking visibility. I suppose you could replace your baldy tires for the NCT and then put them back on after the test, no use in wasting good tires.

overdriver

No, you're not. For a start, your argument is entiirely specious because you haven't actually proved that's happened - i.e. someone failing an NCT for an L plate lowering their visibility. I seriously doubt it's happened, but assuming it has, there are many things that person could've done instead of illegally butchering their L-plates. Moved them to the corner of the window, or the rear hatch, or a visible part of the bodywork, for example.

You won't win the argument by introducing the notion of someone changing their dodgy tyres, because YOU introduced that random nonsense, not anyone else. It's hardly the same thing.

miju

L plate causing you to fail the NCT is a stupid excuse , all you gotta do is put the L plate on the back , seriously either dont cut the L or just dont put up an L plate in the first place , me thinks its retarded looking with cut L plates

voxpop

overdriver wrote:

No, you're not. For a start, your argument is entiirely specious because you haven't actually proved that's happened - i.e. someone failing an NCT for an L plate lowering their visibility. I seriously doubt it's happened, but assuming it has, there are many things that person could've done instead of illegally butchering their L-plates. Moved them to the corner of the window, or the rear hatch, or a visible part of the bodywork, for example.

You won't win the argument by introducing the notion of someone changing their dodgy tyres, because YOU introduced that random nonsense, not anyone else. It's hardly the same thing.

Fisrtly Im not trying to win an argument here just giving a valid reason why an L-Plate might be modified.

Secondly it did happen - I know the person it happened to and the L-Plate was in the top left corner of the windscreen yet according to the NCT it blocked visibility. On modifing the L-Plate the car passed the NCT. If you think this is ridiculous then direct your torrent of abuse towards the NCT.

To be honest you come accross as an arrogant twat by declaring what Ive said as nonsence when you obviously havnt a clue.

@Miju
The L-Plate must be displayed on the front and the rear

Seth Brundle

voxpop wrote:

Secondly it did happen - I know the person it happened to and the L-Plate was in the top left corner of the windscreen yet according to the NCT it blocked visibility

I believe you - thousands wouldn't!

miju

voxpop wrote:

@Miju
The L-Plate must be displayed on the front and the rear

sorry should have clarified i meant put em on the body on the front and back instead of the windscreen

The_Conductor

Slow coach wrote:

Why not rename the thread, "Learner Drivers: Obey the Rules of the Road and the Road Traffic Act?" :rolleyes:

Have to agree 100% on this one......

S.

BrianD3

IME drivers who cut away the border of their L plates are some of the worst muppets on the roads. Anytime I am driving in the vicinity of a vehicle with butchered plates it is a virtual guarantee that within a minute the driver will have done something stupid, dangerous, illegal or inconsiderate.

The good thing abiout these "plates" is they're a telltale sign that you're dealing with an idiot. Another good telltale sign is if the car has any form of fancy numberplate. Special mention goes to knackers who have Irish registrations but on yellow plates :rolleyes:

overdriver

voxpop wrote:

Fisrtly Im not trying to win an argument here just giving a valid reason why an L-Plate might be modified.

Secondly it did happen - I know the person it happened to and the L-Plate was in the top left corner of the windscreen yet according to the NCT it blocked visibility. On modifing the L-Plate the car passed the NCT. If you think this is ridiculous then direct your torrent of abuse towards the NCT.

To be honest you come accross as an arrogant twat by declaring what Ive said as nonsence when you obviously havnt a clue.

@Miju
The L-Plate must be displayed on the front and the rear

Your post is full of paradoxes. Firstly, how do you make out I haven't a clue? You come on here with a highly suspect story about an L plate blocking visibilty, and when it's pointed out that butchering the plate makes it illegal, and that your imaginary friend could have affixed it somewhere else, you start calling people names. Then you say I'M an arrogant twat? You're doing yourself no favours.


Next, point out where I abused you in a even a stream, never mind a torrent. The only one stooping to abuse is you.