Are Merc's really that bad?

cubix

Having been watching a lot of re-runs on Uk-G2 of Top Gear and any time the boys start reviewing merc's they always seem to rip the p%ss out of the build quality. They might demostrate how the back of the drivers seat will rock back and forwards etc.

Cubix

Max_Damage

I know that the electrics in C-Class' are meant to be crap, and I've heard before that some of the E-Class' from the late 90's rust prematurely.

cantdecide

apparently.

i know of a guy who has a top spec '03 E320 CDi who's had a new gearbox. my former boss also had a lot of expensive niggly problems with his aircon in his ....'03 E200K. the examples seem to just go on and on.

my brother used a merc specialist who trained on the older mercs in the main dealer and he says they've gone to the dogs. it seems the design is there but they are cutting corners in manufacturing.

i'm still a big fan though. i'll wait to buy one until i'm getting my full warranty on a brand new one. the '92 bmw will do me for now

Wishbone Ash

cubix wrote:

They might demostrate how the back of the drivers seat will rock back and forwards

I've had an E300 TD for several years and have had two problems. The above and an occasional sticking drivers window. Everything else is fine though so far.

TomMc

Years ago they were bulletproof, over engineered ........ alas nowadays accountants run car companies not engineers. Larger market share and increasing company profits are seen as the only thing that matters ...... mass market production usually results in a lower quality end product (except for manufacturers like Toyota who have perfected it).

Mercedes should stick to what they know best, building large executive cars. Building smaller or volume sellling cars to a budget is something they know nothing about and have relatively little experience off. Toyota & Ford will always do a better job of it, its their exact market since the year dot and they have the economies of scale to do it properly.

It is sad to see a once great marque like Mercedes pander to the masses. There's too many 4 cylinder mercs with cloth seats, hubcaps and their crude manual gearbox about, for my tastes.

Wishbone Ash

TomMc wrote:

Years ago they were bulletproof, over engineered ........ alas nowadays accountants run car companies not engineers. Larger market share and increasing company profits are seen as the only thing that matters ...... mass market production usually results in a lower quality end product (except for manufacturers like Toyota who have perfected it).

Mercedes should stick to what they know best, building large executive cars. Building smaller or volume sellling cars to a budget is something they know nothing about and have relatively little experience off. Toyota & Ford will always do a better job of it, its their exact market since the year dot and they have the economies of scale to do it properly.

It is sad to see a once great marque like Mercedes pander to the masses. There's too many 4 cylinder mercs with cloth seats, hubcaps and their crude manual gearbox about, for my tastes.

They have supposedly learned from the mistakes of the W210 for example. Apparently the W211 is much improved.

junkyard

I wouldn't touch a Merc. with a barge poll tbh. I've had loads of them over the years and I'll agree with the previous posts that the older ones were great but the new ones are rubbish. The only ones worth considering are the SL's and even they are hit and miss as regards reliability, my gf has a 350SL (bought against my advice I might add) and its given a fair few stupid problems, nothing major but things like the electric roof deciding not to close when it was supposed to and other electrical things.

Mr.Diagnostic

E-Class -
124, one of the best cars ever, bulet proof.
210, a big step down in quality from 124 but not too bad.
211, a serious step down for 210.

C-Class -
202, quite a good car, only a few problems.
203, a major step down from 202.

S-Class -
140, I think very few people like them but not bad quality wise.
220, very like the 211, not good at all.
221, this is just a joke.

Most of the problems are electronic. The amount of control units that I replace is unreal. These are expensive repairs due to parts cost and Mercedes decision to have every control unit need programming.
The 1.8K engine in the 211 and 203 is very poor.
It is not rampant but quite common for timing chains to be worn out at 40k miles.

Having said all that, I am aware that I only see the problem ones but there are a lot of them.

I feel sorry for the type of guy who has aspired to a 4 or 5 year old 203 and then gets hit with repair bills in the thousands for silly things like electronic fuse boxes (SAM modules) and instrument clusters that just die.

Another thing about them is that very few garages can repair them efficiently. Because of the complexity of the systems anyone without the correct equipment, training and data is lost.

Max_Damage

I'll take an early 80's W123 300D with a quater of a million miles on it over any new Mercedes.

Mercedes are going down the same dark road Rover did 30 odd years ago. It will come a point where Mercedes will realise the error of their ways, but hopefully it won't be too late by then.

oddy

I'm not really into cars but i would like to asked your advice on the so called New "B" Class Merc.

nodger

I've had my '98 CLK 230 for about 2 years now and I've never had any mechanical trouble with it. The only issue was that the electric windows and sunroof had to be 'retrained' following a dead battery. Other than that, I've had completely trouble-free driving.

prospect

I am sorry, am I reading this thread correctly?
Because I keep seeing the words Merc and Mercedes repeated, but I am sure you all mean Alfa.

Or are there shades of grey starting to appear in all your fields of vision :eek: !?!?!?!

mike65

The rot set in when Damiler Benz was panicked by Lexus at the exec end of the market while deciding to start filling niches that it had hitherto never thought worthy of the marque (A Class, V Class fer Christs sake!)

Basicly buy prior to 1996 and look for a service history or lots of bills and receipts!

Mike.

Anan1

mike65 wrote:

Basicly buy prior to 1996 and look for a service history or lots of bills and receipts!

Mike.

I'd say prior to 93 for the E-class - the W124 started rusting from the 93 facelift on.

mike65

True those front wings are a commen thread topic on Merc forums but the 93-96 w124s look nicer!

Mike.

peasant

Anan1 wrote:

I'd say prior to 93 for the E-class - the W124 started rusting from the 93 facelift on.

Yeees ...but ...

A 93 (or older) E-class by now is so old and unloved that your chance of finding a good one is pretty slim ...they weren't built of stainless steel either.

Wheel arches, sills (especially at the weld points of the C-pillar), fixing points for the jack and on the estates the rear window frames ...I'm yet to find one that isn't "holy" in at least one of these spots.

Well ..I did find one (one!) estate but the owner insisted that it was worth 6k.
(for a 89 with 180 k miles ....gaga!)

mike65

Thats nothing, some crazy person on carzone has a low milage 190e on there for 8 grand! click the :eek: The later w124 engines are better as well.

Mike.

Volvoboy

Hmmmm, Altho* i do like the 99-05 S class they are just too plasticy, too many electricy things to go wrong, i'd take a 1980 300SEL over with 250k mls on the clock, over a fully loaded '07 S600L any day of the week.


-VB-


*I dont want another bloody spelling test Mike65!

Anan1

peasant wrote:

Yeees ...but ...

A 93 (or older) E-class by now is so old and unloved that your chance of finding a good one is pretty slim ...they weren't built of stainless steel either.

Wheel arches, sills (especially at the weld points of the C-pillar), fixing points for the jack and on the estates the rear window frames ...I'm yet to find one that isn't "holy" in at least one of these spots.

Well ..I did find one (one!) estate but the owner insisted that it was worth 6k.
(for a 89 with 180 k miles ....gaga!)

I used to have a 93 pre-facelift 320E with the 5 speed auto and all the toys. No rust whatsoever. Sold it for ... 6k.;)

Blue850

Volvoboy wrote:

Hmmmm, Altho* i do like the 99-05 S class they are just too plasticy, too many electricy things to go wrong, i'd take a 1980 300SEL over with 250k mls on the clock, over a fully loaded '07 S600L any day of the week.

1980 300SEL? no 300s until 1986

HashSlinging

What about the 96 - 02 E class in diesel, I've been toying with the idea of getting one and keeping it for 10 years, either 220 CDi or 270 CDi. are they worth a look.

nialler

I have a 00 S320, fantastic car but again little electronic problems cause all sorts of issues. Gearbox fluid needed to be changed also. And now at 85,000 miles needs 12 plugs and probably 2 Leads as she's misfiring on 1 & 2.

Now it could be me but when I hit the close the window automatically button it goes half way up stops and goes down a tad, so I gently press the button to close the window (intermittant, but more often than not).

Passenger seat babyseat sensor, that's causing my SRS warning light to stay on (more often than not) so the seat needs to be stripped and sensor mat replaced (this is a very common problem).

Front passenger memory control unit for the seat has a mind of its own, again intermittant but sometimes likes to get comfy with the dashboard moving the seat right forward.

They're my niggly little problems, still love the car though.

Wishbone Ash

nialler wrote:

when I hit the close the window automatically button it goes half way up stops and goes down a tad

I have the exact same problem with my W210. It's one of those niggly things that are too small to do much about, yet very annoying when it happens (especially in the rain).

MercMad

I've said this before but I'll try to be short on this. Despite my love for this marque I am not blind to their problems and if I decide to change my current daily driver I will also look elsewhere !

Fact is that DC will never make cars the way they used to simply because people wont pay for them. The have had to change with the times like others. When the W140 S-Class was made in 1991 it was without a doubt "the best car in the World" as far as a complete package went, but it arrived at a time when there was Worldwide reccession and it was significantly more austentacious when compared to the W126.

Thousands of them sat unsold for months and months and the facelift came quickly making the cars look slimmers and lower i.e less brash !

Anyway if you look back to the 60's the really only had 3 bodyshells, Fintail,Coupe and SL.........okay there were LWB and 600 versions too but they are now a volume manufacturer ...........no different to any other volume manufacturer, so the production techniques are the same. Never again will we see hand finished cars, we can have individually tailered options making the cars unique, and there is no doubt that the electronics and specifications are impressive, huge technology, but nobody, particularly dealers are investing in the training !

Also DC does not make their own electronics so if you tell your supplier that you want a component to do XYZ.............but you only want to pay XY for it then you dont get a quality component !

Anyway I have owned both W202 C-Class (still do) and W203 C-Class ( 2 off) and never had an issues with the new cars whatsoever ! I honestly do not know what they are referring to when they say things like "cheap plastics, reduction in build quality" etc............I dont see it anywhere ! Standard servicing only, nothing else !

The ride on the W202 is better, but that is most likely down to the low profile tyres and Avantgarde spec on the W203, which handles fantastically. Its as good a any 3 series on the the twisty road, I owned 2 E36 323i's !

I currently have a W209 CLK which has never given me any trouble, save for a transmission leak which I fixed in about 30 minutes for €7.81.....to be exact ! Its just had its 3rd Full service (€500 all in) and has needed nothing else in 50,000 miles !

First Full service €350
Second €425
Third €510

All Main dealer !

I'm very happy with that !

The W210's have rust issues MY98-MY2000 and the early MY02 W211 have some electrical glitches as do W220 S-Classes and the dealer are absolutely useless in this respect. All of them !!

I dont agree that they are not well made cars though and I think the newer MY07 E-Classes are even better as are the W221 S-Classes !

I have experience with modern Audi's, my BIL is a fan and these are defintely no better as far as build quality and other faults go. BMW's ..........dont even go there..............good build quality, sh1te dealers, worse salesmen, and plenty of electrical faults, repeat ones too then you also have suspension that wears out and manual gearbox faults !

I could actually forgive a car that broke down and left me stranded, but I couldn't forgive a dealer who didn't fix it first time, and thats the biggest problem with Mercedes cars !

Like others have said in the 60's/70's and 80's MB produced the most over engineered cars the World has ever seen, nobody else came close, but that day is gone and it wont ever return, not for anyone !

MercMad

I have the exact same problem with my W210. It's one of those niggly things that are too small to do much about, yet very annoying when it happens (especially in the rain).

..........the motor draws too much current so the cut-out safety switch activates. Lubricate the guides and channels !

BrianD3

MercMad wrote:

Like others have said in the 60's/70's and 80's MB produced the most over engineered cars the World has ever seen

But were the cars actually as "bulletproof" as their reputation suggests? I have an old buyers guide for the W116 S class and according to it these cars were very prone to structural rot and in that respect were little or no better than other cars of the same era. There's also mention of mechanical problems like prematurely worn steering boxes and suspension, timing chains needing replacing at as little as 40k miles etc.

Have seen rusty W124s myself, both post and pre facelift. Of course the pre facelift are an old car now but seem to suffer more from rust than a similar age Audi 100 or even a Renault 25.

Mechanically the likes of the W124 seem to be go forever but I reckon some of this is due to the cars retaining their value and having a "prestige" reputation so are worth fixing when they go wrong - when a less prestige car with the same fault would have gotten scrapped.

My opinion on all of this is that people exaggerate both when bashing the newer Mercedes and praising the older ones. The motor trade may see a lot of problems with new Mercs but some of that is due to the fact that there are far more of them on Irish roads these days than 20 or even 10 years ago.

Have also heard people going on about the passive safety of old cars - how the old W124 is a safer car in a crash than any modern EuroNCAP car. Complete nonsense TBH. Mercedes were safety pioneers and were ahead of the game for years but a) some of it was marketing hype b) other manufacturers have now closed any gap that there was c) newer Mercs are still way ahead of older ones

MercMad

Yes I would agree with a lot of what you say, all pre-1980'ish cars rusted, particularly ones on UK roads. The W116 was designed in the 60's and launched in 1972 so the cavity protection was minimal, if non-existant !

Mechanically they were far more durable, suspensions setups, bushes, blah blah never wore out !

You are correct about the volume thing too, 1000 new Benz's sold here each year in the 80's....................now its that per month !