Ward Union Hunt in hot water

Just The One

Ward Union Hunt are in hot water after yesterday's hunt in Meath when they went galloping down a street with disregard for people walking. It also seems as though one horse fell and went sliding along the ground endangering people on the street. There also seems to have been some incident with a school.


However, it bring me to the question as to whether hunting with hounds should be banned?

doctor evil

Don't know - I am going to sit on the fence on this one

Are you sure they were actually galloping?, that I find hard to believe. WHat exactly do you mean by street, sure you don`t mean road or pathway out in the middle of nowhere as opposed to street in town centre?.

Wrong place for this thread.

Don't know - I am going to sit on the fence on this one

No it should not mainly because I hate the crusties that complain about this.(I love After hours questions)

The Hill Billy

No

This would be better off in Humanities TBH.

I voted Yes.

Edit: I'm not a crusty. I actually enjoy hunting, but only animals that I would eat, & never any more than I could fit in my freezer.

Just The One

No

doctor evil wrote:

Are you sure they were actually galloping?, that I find hard to believe. WHat exactly do you mean by street, sure you don`t mean road or pathway out in the middle of nowhere as opposed to street in town centre?.

Wrong place for this thread.

Oliver (Russell I think) of the Ward Union was just on Liveline talking about it. He has held his hands up and said that they should not have been galloping down a tarmacadam street past a school - so i guess the answer is yes, they were galloping.

Just The One

No

Deleted User wrote:

No it should not mainly because I hate the crusties that complain about this.(I love After hours questions)

and who are the crusties and what defines a crustie?

Don't know - I am going to sit on the fence on this one

The same people who take LSD and cannabis and what ever other **** they get,always complain about how the world is so evil but never do anything to try and change it.People who pore acid on people who hunt car's.Thats really proving your point to the huntsmen and women.Same as those dopey crusties who attacked planes in Shannon.

But most importantly.Why the hell don't crusties know to use a shower or even a bath?

ferdi

No

Just The One wrote:

and who are the crusties and what defines a crustie?

i checked google images...apparently these are crusties.

i dont like fox hunting myself, hunt for food, not for sport.. imo.

Ruu_Old

Bumped over to Humanities so it can be discussed, send it back to me if it ain't in the right spot, mods. Thanks.

ferdi

No

Deleted User wrote:

The same people who take LSD and cannabis and what ever other **** they get,always complain about how the world is so evil but never do anything to try and change it.People who pore acid on people who hunt car's.Thats really proving your point to the huntsmen and women.Same as those dopey crusties who attacked planes in Shannon.

But most importantly.Why the hell don't crusties know to use a shower or even a bath?

sounds like someone needs to expand their mind & stop being so judgmental....simplify, man!

Don't know - I am going to sit on the fence on this one

Just to point out.I posted my previous posts in after hours!Please don't ban me!:o

doctor evil

Don't know - I am going to sit on the fence on this one

Was there any pedestrians on the road at the time?, I find it hard to believe that any one with a bit of sense would actually gallop on tarmacadam, trotting yes.


I know what you mean Dazzler, those that complain without knowing or understanding the full facts.

Just The One

No

Deleted User wrote:

The same people who take LSD and cannabis and what ever other **** they get,always complain about how the world is so evil but never do anything to try and change it.People who pore acid on people who hunt car's.Thats really proving your point to the huntsmen and women.Same as those dopey crusties who attacked planes in Shannon.

But most importantly.Why the hell don't crusties know to use a shower or even a bath?

Seems like you are trying to tar everyone with the same brush. Can I take it that you are in favour of hunting with hounds?

Personally, I would like to see it banned - does that mean that I am one of these lsd junkies that pour acid on cars that belong to people who follow the hunt?

Just The One

No

doctor evil wrote:

I find it hard to believe that any one with a bit of sense would actually gallop on tarmacadam, trotting yes.

not according to Oliver Russell who, I believe, is the master of the ward union hunt. he said that it shouldn't have happened but it did.

Archeron

OP, where in Meath did that happen do you know?

I live in Meath and I was gobsmacked recently when I read that a local school was organizing a hunt as a fund raiser. I personally dont agree with hunting for sport (although I am not knowledgeable on the practice and am open to hearing reasons why its not a bad thing), and thought this was an odd thing to have the childer involved in, considering the heated opinions so may people have about it.

Just The One

No

Archeron wrote:

OP, where in Meath did that happen do you know?

I live in Meath and I was gobsmacked recently when I read that a local school was organizing a hunt as a fund raiser. I personally dont agree with hunting for sport (although I am not knowledgeable on the practice and am open to hearing reasons why its not a bad thing), and thought this was an odd thing to have ther childer involved in, considering the heated opinions so may people have about it.

I think it was Kildalkey in Meath.

As regards that school fundraiser, i don't blame you for being shocked.

FlutterinBantam

Don't know - I am going to sit on the fence on this one

From what I heard on Liveline it was a hunt that went wrong, Apparently the stag vaulted into a national school playground and the hounds followed.
What made me snigger was the amount of Dubs who rang in condemning the occurance,with absolutely noooo regard to country traditions or mores.

It shouldn't have happened but the vitriol from the Dubs made me think...Hmmm future conflict in the offing.

No effort whatsoever made to accomodate the others point of view.

Just The One

No

FlutterinBantam wrote:

From what I heard on Liveline it was a hunt that went wrong, Apparently the stag vaulted into a national school playground and the hounds followed.
What made me snigger was the amount of Dubs who rang in condemning the occurance,with absolutely noooo regard to country traditions or mores.

It shouldn't have happened but the vitriol from the Dubs made me think...Hmmm future conflict in the offing.

No effort whatsoever made to accomodate the others point of view.

i did not hear the entire thing so at least you can fill in some of the blanks. I somewhat agree with you about some people jumping on the bandwagon with their comments. However, I live in the middle of hunting country and don't really care about country traditions etc... I do believe that you cannot have a good debate without listen to both sides and letting the other side have their say. There is no point in trying to shout each other down.

FlutterinBantam

Don't know - I am going to sit on the fence on this one

Well..of course it was typical Duffy ,he saw a situation were he could play the "class" card as he ALWAYS does.He did it in the "eulogy" debate as well.
Some things NEVER change!!

However, leaving radio ratings aside,I must say that city people moving to country and country people moving to the city should accomodate each others long standing pursuits .

Otherwise we will have the stupid uncaring "warfare " that goes on and at the end of the day ,nobody is a winner.

Rovi

Don't know - I am going to sit on the fence on this one

The programme is now available on the Liveline page-
http://www.rte.ie/rams/radio/latest/...-liveline.smil

Sparks

So the stag (a wild animal) jumped into a playground, followed by a group of hounds (also animals), was that it?

Fecks sake. If Joe's that hard up for programming, the next show will probably be about the outrage of a pigeon defecating on someone's car with no concern for automobile values...

Vegeta

Don't know - I am going to sit on the fence on this one

Sparks wrote:

So the stag (a wild animal) jumped into a playground, followed by a group of hounds (also animals), was that it?

Fecks sake. If Joe's that hard up for programming, the next show will probably be about the outrage of a pigeon defecating on someone's car with no concern for automobile values...

exactly, you'd say something if the horses shredded the school playground to bits but if it was just the hounds then so what.

thelurcher

Don't know - I am going to sit on the fence on this one

The whole 'class war' thing is a bit of a myth when it comes to hunting with hounds - I'm not a millionaire, west brit type but I go hunting - apart from work that's all I do!
The ward are our only pack hunting deer albeit carted - and most of the members are fairly well off - but if you think it's hunting purly for the sport you'd want to wake up - there's an awefull lot more people than you may think relying on hunting to support thier families - you have the huntsman, whips, kennel huntsman, grooms etc working directly for the hunt - then the people providing services to the hunt like hirlings and the farriers etc etc.

There's a fair variety when it comes to hunting with hounds as well - the minority is actually done on horseback - there are in fact many more packs out on foot hunting fox, hare and mink.


Just The One: Why shouldn't people enjoy hunting?!?!?!? I can't ever understand that one :rolleyes:

lostexpectation

FlutterinBantam wrote:

From what I heard on Liveline it was a hunt that went wrong, Apparently the stag vaulted into a national school playground and the hounds followed.
What made me snigger was the amount of Dubs who rang in condemning the occurance,with absolutely noooo regard to country traditions or mores.

It shouldn't have happened but the vitriol from the Dubs made me think...Hmmm future conflict in the offing.

No effort whatsoever made to accomodate the others point of view.

if you need to control the animal population or hunt for food go out with a gun and shoot the things, thats a tradition i can expect, thats a perfectly good way to pass down the tradition and teach your kids, making a party out of it and dressing up I don't respect.

as far as employment, in the UK they were complaining about the amout of dogs they might have to put down, well you fecking mass bread them, keep them and let em die out, its your problem.

or ever heard of the word diversify!

thelurcher

Don't know - I am going to sit on the fence on this one

No one 'mass bread'
If anything hounds are in very short supply - I've had to travel myself to the UK to collect hounds.

To take the Ward Union example so - they hunt carted stag - they are bred and kept in captivity by the hunt - so to follow your logic: 'well you fecking mass bread them, keep them and let em die out, its your problem'.
You obviously agree that they can hunt on - they'll be relieved to hear that

The recent laws in england are unworkable - as was predicted - and very few packs have folded - things are pretty much as they were before the legislation.

Is that all you have against hunting - that people dress up and maybe go for a drink afterwards - you must despise rugby and the GAA altogether so :rolleyes:


Shooting isn't always possible for pest control either - if you left the city in the last few years you'd notice that there are houses everywhere - I'd rather have a near miss with a foxhound than a .308 any day of the week!
Try as you might you won't be able to shoot a fox in his earth either.

InFront

Don't know - I am going to sit on the fence on this one

lostexpectation wrote:

if you need to control the animal population or hunt for food go out with a gun and shoot the things, thats a tradition i can expect, thats a perfectly good way to pass down the tradition and teach your kids, making a party out of it and dressing up I don't respect.

That's a bit daft. You have a problem with the hunters because of their clothes?

I thought the whole benefit of hunting with hounds is that you are certain of an outright kill, unlike shooting, where you may just damage the animal and cause it a more drawn out death, possibly starving.
Granted, this would not really be the case with deer, being herbivores. But the 'dressing up' argument doesn't really have much swing.

BryanL

Don't know - I am going to sit on the fence on this one

i'd imagine it was one of the most exciting days ever in the school,must have set kids minds racing and all that,you can bet though that most of them will be given the bambi way of thinking.
all these people are building houses out in the country but wow if they get too much of it,sheep on the roads,cattle getting into gardens or some one shooting,terrible.
a 150 years of hunting and one incident and it's time to call ine JOE.
Hunting is popular all over Europe,it's the right of every citizen in Sweden,norway and finland to hunt.Only the Brits had to ban it,but i guess they are busy helping terrorists kill nationalists in the North,or is that Iraq?
yeah,lets look to the brits for moral guidance
Bryan

lostexpectation

thelurcher wrote:

No one 'mass bread'
If anything hounds are in very short supply - I've had to travel myself to the UK to collect hounds.

To take the Ward Union example so - they hunt carted stag - they are bred and kept in captivity by the hunt - so to follow your logic: 'well you fecking mass bread them, keep them and let em die out, its your problem'.
You obviously agree that they can hunt on - they'll be relieved to hear that

The recent laws in england are unworkable - as was predicted - and very few packs have folded - things are pretty much as they were before the legislation.

Is that all you have against hunting - that people dress up and maybe go for a drink afterwards - you must despise rugby and the GAA altogether so :rolleyes:


Shooting isn't always possible for pest control either - if you left the city in the last few years you'd notice that there are houses everywhere - I'd rather have a near miss with a foxhound than a .308 any day of the week!
Try as you might you won't be able to shoot a fox in his earth either.

how many men/w and hounds does it take to kill a fox that been at your flocks/chickens?

yes you mass bread , there is less footage of dogs here but in England you see those kennels with scores of dogs, obviously specifically bread and then he blames the anti-hunters for their threatened welfare.

a handful not a two dozen racing across the country on horseback as I said hunting carted stags play acting blood sport, not hunting.

InFront

Don't know - I am going to sit on the fence on this one

I am not a fan of hunting, although I see its advantages, but you seem to be overlooking very simple things that even someone like I can see.

how many men/w and hounds does it take to kill a fox that been at your flocks/chickens?

Who do you think pays for the upkeep of the huntsman and hus kennel? Is he supposed to be a charity? Presumably that's why they have large hunting fields - hunt supporters and their fundraisers pay for the work.
As for the amount of dogs, I'm not sure what advantage you think a hunt has in overproducing hounds. Surely the best thing for them in terms of finances and labour is to have no more than is actually required.

yes you mass bread , there is less footage of dogs here but in England you see those kennels with scores of dogs, obviously specifically bread and then he blames the anti-hunters for their threatened welfare

.

That's a bit like restrictions on Thoroughbred breeding coming in in the morning. There is an abundance of Thoroughbreds in this country, which being from the country, I am sure you already know. Now if restrictions came in tomorrow morning, and animals had to be destroyed you wouldn't blame the government, you'd blame the breeder?
That's nonsense. How is a breeder supposed to predict legislation?

lostexpectation

InFront wrote:

I am not a fan of hunting, although I see its advantages, but you seem to be overlooking very simple things that even someone like I can see.



Who do you think pays for the upkeep of the huntsman and hus kennel? Is he supposed to be a charity? Presumably that's why they have large hunting fields - hunt supporters and their fundraisers pay for the work.
As for the amount of dogs, I'm not sure what advantage you think a hunt has in overproducing hounds. Surely the best thing for them in terms of finances and labour is to have no more than is actually required.
.

That's a bit like restrictions on Thoroughbred breeding coming in in the morning. There is an abundance of Thoroughbreds in this country, which being from the country, I am sure you already know. Now if restrictions came in tomorrow morning, and animals had to be destroyed you wouldn't blame the government, you'd blame the breeder?
That's nonsense. How is a breeder supposed to predict legislation?

that's what im asking do they use a dozen or more dogs on a practical hunt.

yes I would blame the gov, and as hunting ain't banned here yet we still have to use the UK example and a hunting ban has been coming a long time.

who pays the upkeep of the huntsman? himself I presume as you say its a business not a cahrity he charges what it costs or the farmer does it himself.

that stag chase thing isn't _hunting_ its blood sport

InFront

Don't know - I am going to sit on the fence on this one

lostexpectation wrote:

yes I would blame the gov, and as hunting ain't banned here yet we still have to use the UK example and a hunting ban has been coming a long time.

So British hunters were supposed to be certain that a ban was going to be put into legislation because there was talk of it going to parliament? They were supposed to finish off their industry because the government said they were planning on doing *something*?

Again, I have no allegiances when it comes to hunting of any sort, although I can see only negative implications for the horseracing industry, but your arguments seem to ignore the most basic practicalities of this issue.

who pays the upkeep of the huntmans? himself I presume as you say its a business he charges what it costs or the farmer does it himself.

The hunting field pay for their hunt, many of whom are farmers...

I do agree with you on the issue of carted stags, I fail to see the logic behind that at all. That sort of hunting isn't an environmental benefit under any circumstances.

humanji

InFront wrote:

That's a bit daft. You have a problem with the hunters because of their clothes?

I thought the whole benefit of hunting with hounds is that you are certain of an outright kill, unlike shooting, where you may just damage the animal and cause it a more drawn out death, possibly starving.
Granted, this would not really be the case with deer, being herbivores. But the 'dressing up' argument doesn't really have much swing.

So you'd rather be torn apart by a pack of crazed dogs than shot and have a chance at survival?

I'm not against hunting, but I honestly don't like hunting with packs of dogs. I don't fall for "it's keeping the population under control" rubbish. If it was, then it can be done in a humane way and a more economically viable way than spending the day chasing a single fox of deer. It's a sport and that's all. Hunt if you need to but stop hiding behind a right to hunt when you get a blood lust.

InFront

Don't know - I am going to sit on the fence on this one

I'm not sure about a pack of dogs for a human, but, if you compare the things size wise, yes I'd rather be killed by tigers than, say, by getting shot in the leg and having a slow and painful death drawn out over the following days.

Hunting with dogs does eliminate that possibility.

However, as Humanji has said, I don't think all hunters hunt because they are concerned over the pest populations.
I suspect many of them do it because they enjoy the fun of riding across country. Probably some of them get a kick out of killing an animal, but that's hunting for you.

doctor evil

Don't know - I am going to sit on the fence on this one

With hunting (be it fox, stag or drag) you get to ride over land that you otherwise would not have permission to be on. There is also the social element to it as well, such as going for a drink after.

thelurcher

Don't know - I am going to sit on the fence on this one

how many men/w and hounds does it take to kill a fox that been at your flocks/chickens?

yes you mass bread , there is less footage of dogs here but in England you see those kennels with scores of dogs, obviously specifically bread and then he blames the anti-hunters for their threatened welfare.

a handful not a two dozen racing across the country on horseback as I said hunting carted stags play acting blood sport, not hunting.

Some of the packs in the UK are out 3, 4 or even more times a week - they'll also have to be available for call out's to farmers who are having trouble.
We look after our hounds well and would NOT expect them to handle that kind of workload every week of the season. Therefore you need to have more hounds.

Hunting with hounds has been around a long time - official packs have been kept in the UK for at least a 1000 years (memory is hazy but I know the brits have royal accounts showing there was a pack of otter hounds kept around then).
A lot of what you see on a hunt - etiquette, dress, number of hounds etc. has a basis in experience built up over the centuries. There are some very good hunting books that would give you a much better understanding of the sport than I could go into here.

I'll say again that relatively little hunting is done on horseback - there are way more foot packs.

ALSO there is only a very small percentage caught above ground (these invariably turn out to be sick/injured) - most are dug and humanely dispatched in the earth - the hounds are often given the carcass.
If anyone is so sensitive that post mortem injuries to a fox upsets them then maybe you'd be better off picketing the next road kill you find to stop those cruel savage cars and lorries from further mutilating the poor aul dead fox!

lostexpectation

thelurcher wrote:

Some of the packs in the UK are out 3, 4 or even more times a week - they'll also have to be available for call out's to farmers who are having trouble.
We look after our hounds well and would NOT expect them to handle that kind of workload every week of the season. Therefore you need to have more hounds.

again how many men and dogs does it take to kill a fox? or a couple of foxes during a days hunt for foxes attacking livestock? I mean a reasonable minimun.