Amp recommendations

DeadSkin

Howdo.....in the next month or so, I'll be hoping to pick up a new amp maybe one of these;

http://www.thomann.de/gb/line6_spider_iii_30.htm

http://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_gmx210_vtone_gitarrencombo.htm

http://www.thomann.de/gb/vox_ad30vt_valvetronix_gitarrencombo.htm

http://www.thomann.de/gb/roland_cube30x.htm

Anyone here have any of them or ever used one?
Anything else out there worth taking a look at, budget...ehhh 250/300 euro
Just using the thomann link for convenience, will be shopping around also be lookin at second hand.

punchdrunk

i've used all of the first three and hated them immensely,save your money and get something better i'd say!

JimmNeutron

Of the ones you have mentioned, the roland cube is by far my own favourite. Its the easiest to use and most useable aswel, but make sure you get decent switch pedals for it.
Try the marshall mg range. I had an mg100dfx which was absolutely amazing for the price. Its the hundred watt version and i think its about 450euro so id say you could get the 30 or even 50 watt version with your budget.

DeadSkin

JimmNeutron wrote:

Try the marshall mg range. I had an mg100dfx which was absolutely amazing for the price. Its the hundred watt version and i think its about 450euro so id say you could get the 30 or even 50 watt version with your budget.

I have the Marshall MG15CD tis me first amp, decent amp but time to upgrade, I didn't even look to see what Marshall had on offer.....wanted to see other brands.
Anywho, I see the Marshall MG30DFX is goin for 209 Euro on 247guitar, well within my budget.
Hmmm.....will wait to see are there any more recommendations to come in.
It will be another 2/3 weeks before I purchase, but wanna get some ground work in.

NeMiSiS

Marshall Mg's are not very good in fairness, the tone is horrific from them... in my humble opinion. What I would do is.. save up an extra few quid and get something like this, from the Buy and sell:

Marshall JCM2000 TSL601. Munster Cork
like new. 1 year old, never gigged. Beautiful amp. 650.
There is one on adverts.ie also.

The reason being, you will have better quality equipment, sweeter tone, and the amp will last you longer. I am not talking specifically about the TSl, but if invest in a decent amp.. it will benefit you more than spending 300 quid on something new that really in all honesty is not very good, it may be "suitable", but.. think long term.

At the very least try something higher end, and make some comparisions. Or give us more of an idea of what tone you are going for.

I hope that helped somewhat.. just my 2 cents.
TK

JimmNeutron

If you really want a roland cube, check out this link to somebody sellin one on adverts: http://www.adverts.ie/showproduct.php?product=15250&cat=16
I think he's askin around 250 euro but im sure you could haggle him down. Might aswel go for a bigger one if you can afford it like.
I totally agree with gettin a higher end second hand amp because you can often get a steal. However just make sure to look out for any damages or wear that will affect the amps performance in any way. Take a look at the tubes in particular if buying a tube amp.

Voodu Child

I dont think you should be recommending he gets a valve amp, without asking why he's buying the amp and what he'll be using it for.

If he's singled out 4 low(ish) powered modellers, i presume he's done it for a reason, so suggesting a 60watt marshall valve amp isnt the best advice.

NeMiSiS

See: "I am not talking specifically about the TSl, but if invest in a decent amp.. it will benefit you more than spending 300 quid on something new that really in all honesty is not very good"

I am not saying valve or non valve specifically, I was just giving an example.

I'm speaking in overall terms, if you can invest in something that will last you lounger, and benefit you accordingly in the long run then you should, rather than spend 2 years frustrated with tone and quality of sound.
TK

Voodu Child

No, thats fine in principle, im not arguing with you there, but you could get the best bargain in a valve amp in the world, and it would still be a waste of money if he's looking for something quiet to play while the kids are asleep.

In fairness the OP should have listed why he was getting it and what he needs it for. I wont be recommending anything specifically until/unless he does.

DeadSkin

Yeah sorry, the reason I picked those 4 amps is, that's as much power as I'll ever need, will be playing mostly at home.

I'll be lookin in the secondhand market as well, just using thomann as a reference point. But 650 bucks is a lot of cashmoney for me to be spending on an amp

All input is more than welcome, and I have read numerous reviews of those amps on other websites and it's a bit of a mixed bag with some of them sounding like sales pitches.
I'd prefer to hear what people here have to recommend, cos' it's worked for me in the past.

TelePaul

I wouldn't buy a second hand valve amp without checking the tubes thoroughly...theres just so much more that could go wrong with it. Marshalls are a great name though, I'd recommend a 50 watt AVT...it ahs a valve driven pre amp section and a solid state power amp section. Celestion speaker too. If you want valves, prepare to spend alot more. Maybe a Fender Blues Junior if you're considering a valve amp, but to be hoenst a decent solid state liek the one I mentioned should do ya.

Voodu Child

TelePaul wrote:

I wouldn't buy a second hand valve amp without checking the tubes thoroughly...theres just so much more that could go wrong with it. Marshalls are a great name though, I'd recommend a 50 watt AVT...it ahs a valve driven pre amp section and a solid state power amp section. Celestion speaker too. If you want valves, prepare to spend alot more. Maybe a Fender Blues Junior if you're considering a valve amp, but to be hoenst a decent solid state liek the one I mentioned should do ya.

-1 from me on the AVT50.

The cheap modellers are grand for noodling around in your bedroom. I wouldnt have a problem recommending the vox or the roland if thats all youre looking for.

Karl Hungus

Avoid the Marshalls in that price range, they're awful.

I'd say you'd honestly want to try out a few amps, so it might be worth hoping on a bus to Dublin and checking out a few different amps in the various guitar shops over there.

TelePaul

voodoo_child wrote:

-1 from me on the AVT50.

The cheap modellers are grand for noodling around in your bedroom. I wouldnt have a problem recommending the vox or the roland if thats all youre looking for.

Hmmm I'm gonna have to say no to modellers in general....as time goes on, their ability to be tweaked or customized seems to have disappeared all together. I liked the original line II spider, the 75 watter, but the new stuff is junk IMO. Recording alot of music, it's easy for someone to spot a modeller. But if you want effects etc then I suppose it's a good buy. I feel the same with the new series of hybrid voxes...I don't trust the build qulaity on a Vox, but that's just me. Like Pete Townshend says, vox made one decent amp...the AC30. If you want vintage glassy tones, shell out a grand plus for that. Their entry level stuff, especially the awful Pathfinder they released isn't worth the money...again, my opinion.

I think the entry level Marshalls are excellent...the clean setting is surprisingly good for a marshall, and the OD channel is pretty versatile too if you know what you're doing with the EQ. I hate the MG series of Marshalls but seriously, the AVT is a different beast altogether, but I have some nice guitars to put through it....I like the actual break up you get when you crank the gain and ease off on the volume. As solid states go, I'd rate it pretty highly.

At the end of the day, the above is just conjecture. Try out as many amps as you can...the one to get is the one you like most.

TelePaul

Karl Hungus wrote:

Avoid the Marshalls in that price range, they're awful.


Interesting...in what sense?

Karl Hungus wrote:

I'd say you'd honestly want to try out a few amps, so it might be worth hoping on a bus to Dublin and checking out a few different amps in the various guitar shops over there.

Besta advice of the thread!

Eoin Madsen

On your budget, I'd definitely be looking at modelling amps, personally.

Ignore any of the "valve in the preamp" hype about AVTs or other solidstate amps like that. They put one half of a 12AX7/ECC83 in the circuit and run the plate on about 12 volts (the normal operating voltage for an ECC83 anode is 250Vdc). The valve may as well be sellotaped to the outside.

By the way, valves need to be changed every year or two in a (real ) valve amp, so I wouldn't be all that pushed about checking the valves when you're buying a new amp. You should be expecting to replace them anyway, and budget accordingly.

JimmNeutron

TelePaul wrote:

Besta advice of the thread!

It would be the best advice on the thread if any of the shops in dublin had a decent range of amps to choose from, haha:D
Only jokin by the way before anybody gets offended:)

Voodu Child

JimmNeutron wrote:

It would be the best advice on the thread if any of the shops in dublin had a decent range of amps to choose from, haha:D
Only jokin by the way before anybody gets offended:)

I'm not offended, I dont own any of the shops in Dublin, but cheap amps is one thing they have plenty of..

Quattroste

Here's my advice....

If your looking for an amp for home use only and want some usable(but not great in any way) built in effects then the Cube 30x is a good amp. I have the previous version and it can do home playing very well.

If you want a bit more, then I would skip the modelling amps and get a 30watt(or less) valve amp. Of course you will have no effects bar reverb maybe. Personally I find buying and selling the effects on ebay can be good fun and you rarely lose much in the transactions if your clever and do your homework.

While your at it check the link in my sig for an affordable vavle amp!

TelePaul

Eoin Madsen wrote:

By the way, valves need to be changed every year or two in a (real ) valve amp, so I wouldn't be all that pushed about checking the valves when you're buying a new amp. You should be expecting to replace them anyway, and budget accordingly.

Well there's alot to consider when you buy second-hand, no matter what you buy!! But yeah, I'm just worried the guy won't be contactable when it comes to liht hes DI'd the pre-section without an attenuator and the amp might as well be a 25 Kilo paperweight. :rolleyes:

You get what you pay for when it comes to musical instruments. i think a valve amp is beyond his inclination anyways. For now.

Karl Hungus

JimmNeutron wrote:

It would be the best advice on the thread if any of the shops in dublin had a decent range of amps to choose from, haha:D
Only jokin by the way before anybody gets offended:)

I'd agree if it was something high-end, but stuff like Line6, Roland and Vox you can find anywhere.

NeMiSiS

"Yeah sorry, the reason I picked those 4 amps is, that's as much power as I'll ever need, will be playing mostly at home."

Goin on this... and _just a tought_ if you a decent HI-FI system.. why not try a POD, it's been a good while since I used one, but had one hooked up here through a really nice set of speakers.. and the HI-Fi amp and the sound was great. It might be an option, you could even put it through your PC, just a thought though. Hungus, could possibly point you a bit more in that direction of things.

Best of luck anyway.

TK - Jekyl

DeadSkin

Thanks y'all, some good advice here .
As I said it'll be a few weeks before I purchase, just as well I asked ye good folk here early on.
I have a few scenarios here to mull over.

NeMiSiS wrote:

"Yeah sorry, the reason I picked those 4 amps is, that's as much power as I'll ever need, will be playing mostly at home."

Goin on this... and _just a tought_ if you a decent HI-FI system.. why not try a POD, it's been a good while since I used one, but had one hooked up here through a really nice set of speakers.. and the HI-Fi amp and the sound was great. It might be an option, you could even put it through your PC, just a thought though. Hungus, could possibly point you a bit more in that direction of things.

Best of luck anyway.

TK - Jekyl

Ohh, that sounds interesting. Haven't even thought of the POD.
Have heard super things about the XT, would mean though I'd have to save a few more of me shillings...

Bloody GAS will have the death of me!!!

Quattroste

I all fairness Nemisis has given you the best option by far, providing you have an adaquate sound system to play through! Many many amps and effects all in one. You could pick up a POD XT or a Vox ToneLab for under €200 on Ebay!

John

Out of your original list, I recommend the Roland Cube. The Vox just isn't as good and the tone on the Line6 is fairly gick. Behringer I'm against on principle.

DeadSkin

My gut feelin when I started this thread was for the Cube, since then I'm leanin' towards the POD, havin' read here and here and other reviews.
The idea of recording at home also interests me and the whole thing of downloading patches....:cool: and the option of the model packs.

Hey Karl, what's the software like to use, anything you don't like about the POD?

jcoote

i have a tone lab and its great for the home thing even just run through your soundcard...cubes are great too tho

Voodu Child

DeadSkin wrote:

My gut feelin when I started this thread was for the Cube, since then I'm leanin' towards the POD, havin' read

POD through monitors or hi-fi speakers is great for recording, or very low volume practice.

BUT... if theres ever a situation where you want to crank it up, a combo with a 10 or 12" speaker will be much more satisfying and closer to a 'real' amp experience.

With all the will in the world, the best hi-fi speakers just cant move air in the same way as a guitar cab/combo, they're just too small.

Karl Hungus

DeadSkin wrote:

Hey Karl, what's the software like to use, anything you don't like about the POD?

Software is dead handy to use, no bother at all there. Can't say there's anything I don't like about it either.

Although I do agree with Voodoo Child that running it through an amp is most satisfying, but truthfully, it's not nessicary. You could always get another amp at a later stage to run it though. Mind you, it sounds fantastic infront of a tube amp.

Voodu Child

Karl Hungus wrote:

Although I do agree with Voodoo Child that running it through an amp is most satisfying, but truthfully, it's not nessicary.

No youre right its not necessary, you'd be happy enough running it through monitors if it was just for recording or noodling, but its nice to be able to move a bit of air when you want it. Im not saying any of those 30watt amps are monsters though

I have a fairly nice setup, and am putting together an even nicer one at the moment - but, i find myself plugging into the microcube a lot. While its dead handy and great fun, you do kind of miss the lower frequencies that the little speaker cant touch.

Karl Hungus

voodoo_child wrote:

No youre right its not necessary, you'd be happy enough running it through monitors if it was just for recording or noodling, but its nice to be able to move a bit of air when you want it. Im not saying any of those 30watt amps are monsters though

I have a fairly nice setup, and am putting together an even nicer one at the moment - but, i find myself plugging into the microcube a lot. While its dead handy and great fun, you do kind of miss the lower frequencies that the little speaker cant touch.

Something that might be of interest is that Atomic Reactor amp, supposed to be fantastic with the Pods, and a 1x12 would be excellent.

Aye, nothing wrong with the Cube at all, but there's just nothing like playing through my Fireball. Just stand back from it, and wow!

Voodu Child

Karl Hungus wrote:

Something that might be of interest is that Atomic Reactor amp, supposed to be fantastic with the Pods, and a 1x12 would be excellent.

Aye, nothing wrong with the Cube at all, but there's just nothing like playing through my Fireball. Just stand back from it, and wow!

Aye ive heard great things about that reactor.

It doenst make much sense in my head, since PODs model the whole shebang including the power valve distortion already, so hooking it into another valve power-stage seems a bit weird, but the results speak for themselves apparently.

Eoin Madsen

A real valve powerstage won't contribute any distortion at all unless the amp is putting out it's full wattage, so you certainly wouldn't be relying on it for "valve distortion" that often anyway. I guess it's just serving as an actual functional powerstage and a cab.

Given that the powerstage modelling anticipates a solidstate poweramp, I'd expect it to perform less well than intended with a real valve poweramp tbh.

Voodu Child

Eoin Madsen wrote:

A real valve powerstage won't contribute any distortion at all unless the amp is putting out it's full wattage, so you certainly wouldn't be relying on it for "valve distortion" that often anyway. I guess it's just serving as an actual functional powerstage and a cab.

Given that the powerstage modelling anticipates a solidstate poweramp, I'd expect it to perform less well than intended with a real valve poweramp tbh.

I dont get you on the valve power stage distortion bit - i change valves on the power section of my Univalve to get different levels of distortion and a different character, and i never run the thing even close to full wattage.

I never touch the preamp valve, its always a 12ax7, but I change the power valve like I change my undies, and its effect on tone and distortion is huge......

DeadSkin

Karl Hungus wrote:

Although I do agree with Voodoo Child that running it through an amp is most satisfying, but truthfully, it's not nessicary. You could always get another amp at a later stage to run it though. Mind you, it sounds fantastic infront of a tube amp.

I don't doubt it at all about runnin' it thru' an amp, but I likes the thought of experimentin' with the pc scenario also.
I thinks I'll bite the bullet and go for the POD, looks like I be workin a fair bit of overtime in the comin weeks for funds
Thanks again dudes

Eoin Madsen

voodoo_child wrote:

I dont get you on the valve power stage distortion bit - i change valves on the power section of my Univalve to get different levels of distortion and a different character, and i never run the thing even close to full wattage.

I never touch the preamp valve, its always a 12ax7, but I change the power valve like I change my undies, and its effect on tone and distortion is huge......

Single-ended power stages impart more tonal colouration than push/pull stages so you're likely to notice the differences between the output valves more in that kind of amp. There's no reason why a difference in the output frequency response would be heard through a distorted signal any less than it would through a clean one. None the less, the actual distortion itself is being generated earlier in the signal chain if you're not driving the amp close to full wattage.

I can't remember the univalve specifically but some of the THD amps do have inbuilt power attenuation. You might be confusing this with a master volume (which is before the powerstage). If you apply attenuation you can have the speaker at low volume even when you're running the amp at high wattage.

Voodu Child

In any case, the point of the valve power stage in the reactor isnt to generate distortion. I dont know what the point of it IS to be honest, presumeably something vague like 'add warmth' or some other marketing catchphrase.

I havent used one so I guess i'll wait til I do before judgement, but it's defintely got some good reviews (and I dont mean the usual harmony-central rubbish).

(The Univalve thing is off topic, but yeah, it does have an attenuator all right. Best amp ive ever played, though it hasnt stopped me buying more Pretty much the whole point of the amp is that you can swap power valves for different tone, headrom, clip characteristics etc. Its really cool )

Eoin Madsen

voodoo_child wrote:

I dont know what the point of it IS to be honest, presumeably something vague like 'add warmth' or some other marketing catchphrase.

Basically, yeah.

[minirant]
I don't know how the "warmth" thing ever started tbh, it's not actually the word I'd use to describe the characteristics I associate with valve amps. To me, "warmth" imples humming low middle frequencies and muted highs. In my experience (good) valve circuits actually tend to have audibly clearer and more distinct high frequencies - greater depth and air without the harshness you tend to get in solidstate amps. The effect is psychoacoustic (afaik it's actually caused by harmonic compression) in that it actually represents a loss of linearity if measured objectively.

I was a bit put off the modellers I heard a few years back after I started using real valve amps. But I have to admit I'm pretty impressed with the models in Guitar Rig 2. The technology seems to be getting there anyway.[/minirant]

If you can turn off the powerstage and speaker modelling in the POD, I don't see why the Reactor shouldn't be an improvement. It's a real valve poweramp, so there's no trickery going on as far as I can see.