flooded engine?

ambasite

bike wouldn't start from the button on Monday morning, tried it with choke then, didn't kick in, tried again yesterday evening, same result. if the engine is flooded now will it start from push start?

Interceptor

The engine doesn't stay flooded forever - the fuel evaporates through the open valves. Don't twist the throttle at all, pull the choke all the way out and try to start from there. Push starting is ok in an emergency but I'd say your bike needs a minor tweak or better starting technique. It is best not to push start modern bikes with fuel injection and lots of electronics. CBR250 is ok though due to limited technology.

'cptr

ambasite

thanks, will try at lunch, i presume it was slow to start due to cold weather? started fine on Saturday & Sunday.

Interceptor

Mine hates the cold and it lives in a damp shed, but it always starts after a bit of coaxing on the choke.

'c

ambasite

no go at lunch, tried with and without choke, battery seems to be getting weaker with every attempt. going to try push start after work - that's in 2nd gear & pop out clutch rather than gradual release?

delop

STOP! Dont kill the Batt

Find your fuel cut off switch, Turn off the fuel!

Turn the engine over a couple of times to burn off the fuel, It might start for a sec..Myabe not

Turn the fuel back on

Start the bike..

Did you say its a CBR 250? Left side just under the seat/tank Red switch

That should do it...

ambasite

delop wrote:

STOP! Dont kill the Batt

Find your fuel cut off switch, Turn off the fuel!

Turn the engine over a couple of times to burn off the fuel, It might start for a sec..Myabe not

Turn the fuel back on

Start the bike..

Did you say its a CBR 250? Left side just under the seat/tank Red switch

That should do it...

ok.

does each attempt at starting deplete the battery even more?

delop

ambasite wrote:

ok.

does each attempt at starting deplete the battery even more?

LOL, sorry, of course, and if it dont, you could have solved the Energy Crisis...

Once you get it started take it for a spin to charge the battery, or leave it sit for a while with a few revs over idle to charge

Its a 12v battery so you could use jump leads to start it if its dead...

ambasite

delop wrote:

LOL, sorry, of course, and if it dont, you could have solved the Energy Crisis...

Once you get it started take it for a spin to charge the battery, or leave it sit for a while with a few revs over idle to charge

Its a 12v battery so you could use jump leads to start it if its dead...

i knew i should have qualified that question with something like - "should i go for the push start before i zap the battery completely..."

:rolleyes:

Interceptor

Yeah, each attempt to start it will run the battery down. Give it a try at push starting, push, second gear, pop the clutch and see if it fires then coax it.

'cptr

PM me if you want me to drop by and have a look - its on my way from work.

ambasite

Interceptor wrote:

Yeah, each attempt to start it will run the battery down. Give it a try at push starting, push, second gear, pop the clutch and see if it fires then coax it.

'cptr

PM me if you want me to drop by and have a look - its on my way from work.

cheers for the offer, fair play to you, will pm you if it doesn't fire. what time do you knock off work?

Interceptor

ambasite wrote:

what time do you knock off work?

I never knock off work, but I'm leaving now and heading to Tesco...

'cptr

Elfish

Interceptor wrote:

Don't twist the throttle at all, pull the choke all the way out and try to start from there.

This is in fact exactly the opposite of what you are supposed to do. Put your choke in, and open the throttle to wide open. Even though it sounds wrong, and its a pain to get conflicting advice on the net, trust me original poster, I've probably been on bikes almost as long as Interceptor has been alive at a guess. No disrespect Interceptor

Interceptor wrote:

It is best not to push start modern bikes with fuel injection and lots of electronics.

Disagree. Are you sure you aren't applying something you heard about cars to bikes? Most bikes don't have catalytic converters - this is the reason you will hear not to push start newer cars. Doesn't apply to 99% of bikes.

Interceptor

Elfish wrote:

I've probably been on bikes almost as long as Interceptor has been alive at a guess.

You've been riding bikes since 1967 in that case and you are very old indeed.

Elfish wrote:

Disagree. Are you sure you aren't applying something you heard about cars to bikes? Most bikes don't have catalytic converters - this is the reason you will hear not to push start newer cars. Doesn't apply to 99%of bikes.

No, I read it in the owners manual of my '02 CBR600 which has fuel injection but no catalytic convertor. Honda insist the bike shouldn't be push started or jump started.

'cptr

Luimni

Elfish wrote:

This is in fact exactly the opposite of what you are supposed to do. Put your choke in, and open the throttle to wide open. Even though it sounds wrong, and its a pain to get conflicting advice on the net, trust me original poster, I've probably been on bikes almost as long as Interceptor has been alive at a guess. No disrespect Interceptor


Disagree. Are you sure you aren't applying something you heard about cars to bikes? Most bikes don't have catalytic converters - this is the reason you will hear not to push start newer cars. Doesn't apply to 99% of bikes.

I always have huge problems starting my bike in the cold morning and i often end up flooding the engine (inexperience too). But if you flood it, opening the throttle and starting it with choke off works for me. But sometimes I have to pull out the spark plug and give her a good auld drying off and try again which usually does the trick.

Elfish

Interceptor wrote:

No, I read it in the owners manual of my '02 CBR600 which has fuel injection but no catalytic convertor. Honda insist the bike shouldn't be push started or jump started.
'cptr

I stand corrected so, but then owner manuals will give much advice which in practise is ignorable if you do whatever procedure it is properly. Saying in the owners manual not to jump start the bike is probably to protect the manufacturers from those who might jump incorrectly.

I also stand corrected on your age/experience, I made reference to it to emphasise to the original poster that the advice that you gave about how to start a flooded bike was incorrect and the exact opposite of what he should have been told. And no, I am not that old!!

Back to the original poster, did you get sorted out?

ambasite

Elfish wrote:

I stand corrected so, but then owner manuals will give much advice which in practise is ignorable if you do whatever procedure it is properly. Saying in the owners manual not to jump start the bike is probably to protect the manufacturers from those who might jump incorrectly.

I also stand corrected on your age/experience, I made reference to it to emphasise to the original poster that the advice that you gave about how to start a flooded bike was incorrect and the exact opposite of what he should have been told. And no, I am not that old!!

Back to the original poster, did you get sorted out?

thanks.

tried all of the above, could be missing something really obvious, nothing happening now, think i drained battery 100%. guy for garage calling out tomorrow to have a look, hopefully will have it sorted for the weekend.

Idleater

Just a quick question,

When the bike wouldn't start and you thought it was flooded, was there a smell of petrol?

What bike is it?

Sometimes the bikes have safety cut off switches that mean you have to start them with the clutch in and in neuteral and with the side stand up.

I had an incident a while back when the wires to the clutch switch came loose and the bike wouldn't start. Plug back in the connection and away she goes.

Just something to consider.

L.

Scootay

I flooded my Vespa ET4 a few weeks back. I tried leaving it over night and then the open throttle start but with no luck. In the end I jumped it from the car. Took a few seconds of turning over before it started but I took it for a spin straight away and it's been fine ever since. (He said touching wood.)

bushy...

If your jump starting a bike from a car , don't run the car engine ( the bike wont take much to start it really ) .
Another thing that happens involving the clutch lever/neutral/sidestand lockout system is on some bikes there is a little thing that contains two diodes back to back ( its about the size of your thumbnail , has three "legs" like this in this pattern - - - ) ...... anyway one of the legs gets corroded leading to all sorts of intermittent starting up fun.
The little yoke sometimes lives in the fusebox, or sometimes is taped into the loom for added joy.

Hotblack Desiato

bushy... wrote:

If your jump starting a bike from a car , don't run the car engine ( the bike wont take much to start it really )

Depends on the bike... some are as hard or harder to start than a car but the battery is much smaller than any car.

My Triumph has no warnings about push starting or jump starting, and I've done both successfully, so it's ok on at least some fuel-injected bikes. Triumph manuals are famous for having more CYA material and warnings than useful material, so if there was a risk of problems they'd definitely have said so

When I lived in an apartment I could roll it down the slope into the car park to push start it... had to do that a couple of times. Then moved into a house, no handy slope and it's too heavy to push start on your own. Tried jumping it off the wife's car but it wouldn't turn the engine fast enough to start it, unless I started the car engine.

The car's voltage regulator would be set pretty much the same as the bike's, so running the car engine isn't going to blow up the bike.

Incidentally, I've fitted a new battery now

ambasite

got new battery fitted, seemed to have sorted out the problem, but it was still a good 10 to 15 minutes to get it started this morning, coaxing it with the choke, once it gets going it's great, just hope it's not the same story every cold damp morning....

Esel

ambasite wrote:

got new battery fitted, seemed to have sorted out the problem, but it was still a good 10 to 15 minutes to get it started this morning, coaxing it with the choke, once it gets going it's great, just hope it's not the same story every cold damp morning....

When starting from cold (with choke), don't use any throttle opening. Drive away immediately, get choke off asap. Keep revs low until engine warms up. Warming up engine before riding away is bad news.

Agree on how to start a flooded engine - no choke, full throttle.

If bike is not starting, don't drain battery by repeated attempts. Wait a few minutes and try again. That gives the battery a chance to recover.

bushy...

If its hard to start all the time when its cold , and the carbs/rubbers/electrics are fine , it may be leaky inlet valves ( tight clearances etc ) .
Easiest way to check is a leakdown tester , looks like a spark plug with a hose, pressure regulator and airline attached, you basically put it in each plughole in turn , bring that cylinder to TDC , and turn on the air . You can listen for where the air is leaking out and the gauge will tell you the % of leakage.

ambasite

esel wrote:

Warming up engine before riding away is bad news.

why?

i thought is was good to let it heat (above blue line on temp gauge) up before riding off.

bbbbb

In terms of warming up, I think you're supposed to do this (need to do this!), but not warm it up by revving the c**p out of it, just give it a couple of mins turning over before riding off?

On the jump starting from a car, yes I've had to do this a no. of times. I've usually had the car running (1.4l & it would have been idle for a week maybe, so don't want 2 dead batteries!). However I did manage to damage the alarm on the bike by doing this. Talking with a bike shop owner trying to fix this reckoned I was unlucky