Improving Fuel Economy on 2.2 Prelude VTI

MeatProduct

Greetings!

I've just bought myself a 1998 2.2 Honda Prelude VTi, auto/tip. While I realise that this car is not geared towards getting good mpg I'd like to do a few things to it to improve it and I don't mind incurring a loss in power. Anything that will reduce harmful emissions and improve mpg I'd really like to hear about cause I don't have much of an idea about car mods.

Someone mentioned cold-air induction to me as a start.

Any thoughts and ideas are greatly appreciated. I've about €1000 to spend over the next 3-4 weeks, might spend more after that.

Thanks!



Nick

3ps

surely you would only be able to make a few small % in the difference, which won't be worth it???

sounds mad to me.

Kaskade

I've had a few cars like that before and I genuinely think your wasting your time, much better off to buy a diesel you could easily get double the fuel economy without too much of a loss of power, although if you like the high revving engine diesel isnt for you!

MeatProduct

Ah well, thanks for the input though. At least I can dream.....



Nick

bazz26

Surely spending €1,000 or more on a modification to increase mpg by a marginal percentage doesn't make economic sense unless it is a diesel engine you are buying? I cannot believe that this modification can give you much of a saving to justify spending upwards of €1,000 for it.

If mpg is that much of a concern maybe the 2.0 litre Prelude would have been a better option!

cpoh1

Change the fuel filter for a start. Replace the spark plugs, and clean the pcv valve. After that if you are still getting below average mileage in comparison to other owners change the o2 sensor on the exhaust manifold.

MeatProduct

cpoh1 wrote:

Change the fuel filter for a start. Replace the spark plugs, and clean the pcv valve. After that if you are still getting below average mileage in comparison to other owners change the o2 sensor on the exhaust manifold.

Ah, great. I shall do all of those things (meaning I'll ask someone else to do it for me).

Thank you.

Here's something I was looking at too, it's a fuel additive. http://www.blueskycleanair.com/

Nick

Biro

Spending €1000 to save maybe 1 or 2 mpg, thats a lot of money. You'd need a lot of miles (a good few thousand I'd assume) to eventually save that back!
Do as cpoh1 says anyway, that'll leave it closer to the way it left the factory and will only cost a few bob.

3ps

meatproduct... if you do what cpoh1 says you will just be ensuring that you are getting the correct fuel consumption for the car, not improving it.

Anan1

Out of interest, why did you buy that car if emmissions and mpg are more important to you than performance?

Wossack

like the looks but not the engine? get a new engine

layke

If only it were that simple.

Just try to avoid high revs. Hondas are very good on fuel generally however not so good with a heavy foot.

Mailman

Low rolling resistance tyres properly inflated will help and give you a few MPG straight away.
Eiretyres have some Korean brands quite cheap that have good rolling resistance performance.
Cold feeds and induction kits will not help much if at all.
Go for a lighter oil at the next service and new plugs.

Learn how VTEC works and change gears early to avoid sending the engine in to performance mode.

Switch off electrics when not needed and group errands so that you keep your car warm when going from place to place.

Change your driving style and remove rubbish from the boot.

I've got a bit of a gas-guzzler but it doesn't break down and I've adjusted my driving style to help improve economy.
I figure it is burning maybe 400euro more petrol a year than a more economical car but I can live with it as I like the car.

If the objective is to save money or save the planet then keep the car
More CO2 will be released through manufacture of another new car than is released by keeping a perfectly good modern car on the road.
My current car is a guzzler but it doesn't break down. My last one was lighter on fuel but was regularly being fixed.
Current MPG for me is about 24-25MPG.

MeatProduct

Mailman wrote:

Low rolling resistance tyres properly inflated will help and give you a few MPG straight away.
Eiretyres have some Korean brands quite cheap that have good rolling resistance performance.
Cold feeds and induction kits will not help much if at all.
Go for a lighter oil at the next service and new plugs.

Learn how VTEC works and change gears early to avoid sending the engine in to performance mode.

Switch off electrics when not needed and group errands so that you keep your car warm when going from place to place.

Change your driving style and remove rubbish from the boot.

I've got a bit of a gas-guzzler but it doesn't break down and I've adjusted my driving style to help improve economy.
I figure it is burning maybe 400euro more petrol a year than a more economical car but I can live with it as I like the car.

If the objective is to save money or save the planet then keep the car
More CO2 will be released through manufacture of another new car than is released by keeping a perfectly good modern car on the road.
My current car is a guzzler but it doesn't break down. My last one was lighter on fuel but was regularly being fixed.
Current MPG for me is about 24-25MPG.

Good advice, especially about the tires, never thought about that. I do drive quite economically.

To answer a few questions, I bought the car cause I really like the look of it, hardly like the look of any cars at all. Of course I realise the mpg of the car is not great but someone else would be driving it around less consciously than me to I think that helps a the environment a little. The main point, as Mailman said, is that buying a new car has a crappie carbon footprint than a used car.

I've had occasion to drive my brothers honda, vtec, and it's very easy to avoid the vtec range.

It's a hope of mine to get an electric engine in there a few years down the road. Fingers crossed that it will be an option in a few years.

Nick

HashSlinging

I've an accord 1.8 Vtec auto/tip, I find using the cruise control / tiptronic way more fuel efficient than using the auto box alone.

Good luck with keeping that up though, even in 1.8 form they're v-thirsty, but its addictive.

kluivert

Mailman wrote:

If the objective is to save money or save the planet then keep the car
More CO2 will be released through manufacture of another new car than is released by keeping a perfectly good modern car on the road.
My current car is a guzzler but it doesn't break down. My last one was lighter on fuel but was regularly being fixed.
Current MPG for me is about 24-25MPG.

This is also the theory of my unlce in England who bought a 2.5l Toyota jeep in 1999. He bought it because he wanted a car with a long life in it. Thinks its cleaner than producing a new car every three years. The jeep still feels need as well.

@ OP, keeping the car well serviced and maintained, easy on the foot etc will keep economy, but you bought a performance car, which sadly its purpose is not to be economical.

3ps

somebody bought a performance car and wants to keep fuel consumption down and replace it with an electric engine??

this has to be a joke?

Anan1

3ps wrote:

somebody bought a performance car and wants to keep fuel consumption down and replace it with an electric engine??

this has to be a joke?

To be fair, most coupés are bought for looks rather than performance. I would have thought that the Prelude would be the exception to this rule, but I guess different people can like different things about the same car. I have to admit, i've always thought that that model of Prelude was a very handsome car myself.

V6 Alfa

this must be a wind up....

but if you are serious dude, you should save your grand, sell you car and but something more economical.

If you LOVE your car (dont know why you would love that particular model but anyway) and you wont sell it for years, and you REALLY want to save a few cents on fuel, and be nice to the wildlife around the phoenix park, then you should consider doing an LPG conversion (liquid petroleum gas)

read all about it here: http://www.lpg-vehicles.co.uk/index.htm



you're mad to spend a grand+ on stupid mods to try and get better mpg and save bunnies. Better of giving the money directly to http://www.wwf.org/ !

Anan1

V6 Alfa wrote:

If you LOVE your car (dont know why you would love that particular model but anyway) and you wont sell it for years, and you REALLY want to save a few cents on fuel, and be nice to the wildlife around the phoenix park, then you should consider doing an LPG conversion (liquid petroleum gas)

CarGas isn't available here any more.

Locutus

Why don't you spend the spare €1000 (or perhaps more) on a lobotomy. Or else find a time in the fuel prices cycle where you can buy some futures on some barrels of crude at an advantageous price. Otherwise spend it on advice from an accountant on why spending €1000 on fuel saving improvements will take 10,000 years to recoup your €1000 investment. Or just give it to me and I will drink it. In all of the above cases you will be a winner.

528i

I have taken the following measures to increase fuel economy on the uberpanzer,

Visit petrol stations more frequently to avoid the unnecessary burden of hauling an 80l tank of petrol around all week, this can help with emissions, performance and the environment resulting in better handling also. Gain = 3MPG

Remove air filters as these create a resistance on the flow of air and are not strictly necessary unless you live in dusty climates such as Dubai or Morocco, don't listen to garage owners as the mark up on air-filters is quite substantial, Gain = 5mpg and healthy meatier sounding engine.

Use a low viscosity engine oil (or thin out the existing oil with diesel) and drain the engine oil level to its lowest point as excess oil creates an unnecessary resistance on crankshaft rotation and load on internals, the engine will rev more freely with an increase in output and decrease consumption by approx 7 MPG.

Total Savings = 15MPG!! or €451.79 per annum (ie. not to be sniffed at) bear in mind that Japanese reliability & build quality may be up to BMW standards, but you can always delve into that €1,000 reserve for a Nissan patrol diesel engine conversion if things go kaput.

Mailman

528i wrote:

I have taken the following measures to increase fuel economy on the uberpanzer,

Visit petrol stations more frequently to avoid the unnecessary burden of hauling an 80l tank of petrol around all week, this can help with emissions, performance and the environment resulting in better handling also. Gain = 3MPG

Remove air filters as these create a resistance on the flow of air and are not strictly necessary unless you live in dusty climates such as Dubai or Morocco, don't listen to garage owners as the mark up on air-filters is quite substantial, Gain = 5mpg and healthy meatier sounding engine.

Use a low viscosity engine oil (or thin out the existing oil with diesel) and drain the engine oil level to its lowest point as excess oil creates an unnecessary resistance on crankshaft rotation and load on internals, the engine will rev more freely with an increase in output and decrease consumption by approx 7 MPG.

Total Savings = 15MPG!! or €451.79 per annum (ie. not to be sniffed at) bear in mind that Japanese reliability & build quality may be up to BMW standards, but you can always delve into that €1,000 reserve for a Nissan patrol diesel engine conversion if things go kaput.

Do you want him to blow up his engine?

I'm using thin fully synth oil but wouldn't risk any of the other things you suggest.
deliberately running engine low on oil when you are using thin oil which slips past piston rings is a dangerous hobby.

Removing air filter will only help air flow at high revs and if he is looking to save fuel he won't be reving the car high.

cost/benefit of running on half tank of petrol and more frequent petrol stops doesn't save money for most. Better to visit cheapest station in area less frequently.
Make sure you have a proper petrol cap on your car to eliminate evaporation.

528i

528i wrote:

Remove air filters as these create a resistance on the flow of air and are not strictly necessary unless you live in dusty climates such as Dubai or Morocco, don't listen to garage owners as the mark up on air-filters is quite substantial, Gain = 5mpg and healthy meatier sounding engine.

.

That is terrible advice

Biro

Dilute your engine oil with diesel and run it at the min point? Remove the air filter? There's a 528 that I don't want to buy!!
Wouldn't more ariflow in the engine at higher revs increase the fuel consumption? Granted the air filters restrict airflow, but a certain type of performance airfilter (or induction kit) would do that while still protecting the engine from foreign particles going into the cylinders.

Locutus

Mailman wrote:

Do you want him to blow up his engine?

I'm using thin fully synth oil but wouldn't risk any of the other things you suggest.
deliberately running engine low on oil when you are using thin oil which slips past piston rings is a dangerous hobby.

Removing air filter will only help air flow at high revs and if he is looking to save fuel he won't be reving the car high.

cost/benefit of running on half tank of petrol and more frequent petrol stops doesn't save money for most. Better to visit cheapest station in area less frequently.
Make sure you have a proper petrol cap on your car to eliminate evaporation.

You and Ronoc (and now Biro also) are just as much in need of a lobotomy, and perhaps you are the two pennies missing from our special needs enquirer's shilling, if you can't recognise that 528i is procuring the urine.

This is indeed a talented forum. Must ask for advice on how I can use wind power to help propel my Ferrari while idling the engine. Are you all lumpenproletariat or is it just these three wonderful specimens? Bet your day job is running around in a little wheel in a glass box.

Anan1

One would have to assume that 528i's advice is a wind up, no?

Mailman

I assumed that 528 is pulling the proverbial but you have to remember he is answering a ridiculous question and there is a chance the OP might follow advice as no smilies were included in 528's response.

Locutus you are very rude!

Locutus

Locutus wrote:

You and Ronoc (and now Biro also) are just as much in need of a lobotomy, and perhaps you are the two pennies missing from our special needs enquirer's shilling, if you can't recognise that 528i is procuring the urine.

Ive had a full frontal labotomy you insensitive clod. :mad:

Anan1

Locutus wrote:

You and Ronoc (and now Biro also) are just as much in need of a lobotomy, and perhaps you are the two pennies missing from our special needs enquirer's shilling, if you can't recognise that 528i is procuring the urine.

This is indeed a talented forum. Must ask for advice on how I can use wind power to help propel my Ferrari while idling the engine. Are you all lumpenproletariat or is it just these three wonderful specimens? Bet your day job is running around in a little wheel in a glass box.

Bad day in the office? ;-)

528i

While unorthodoxed, the above advice remains technically correct for improving fuel economy, and it was stated for the original posters benefit that reliability (particularly with cheap and nasty economy marques) may be affected.

However, big end bearings and conrods are remarkable resilient these days with seized engines being a rare occurrence (ok peugeots are notorious irregardless of the oil mixture) but possibly our biggest hurdle may be the air-filter (yes, more air improves economy Biro), or more specifically the MAF meters becoming dirty with dust and grime over time, nothing a good powerhose wouldn't sort out and Aldi have some 1800Psi Karcher models coming out next week at €89.

Obviously any dust or debris, particularly small stones and hard shelled insects (or maybe even rodents and nesting birds) should not enter the combustion chamber so installing some net or nylon stocking (with a 'do not enter' warning sign) in place of the filter would be advisable.

unkel

Very funny, 528i

Locutus wrote:

You and Ronoc (and now Biro also) are just as much in need of a lobotomy, and perhaps you are the two pennies missing from our special needs enquirer's shilling

No need for personal insults. First and final warning, next time you're banned

fletch

And I find it very difficult to believe that 528i could achieve a 15mpg benefit using those methods! :eek: That's a massive increase in efficiency

Anan1

528i wrote:

While unorthodoxed, the above advice remains technically correct for improving fuel economy

Not this bit:

528i wrote:

and drain the engine oil level to its lowest point as excess oil creates an unnecessary resistance on crankshaft rotation and load on internals, the engine will rev more freely with an increase in output and decrease consumption by approx 7 MPG.

Locutus

unkel wrote:

Very funny, 528i



No need for personal insults. First and final warning, next time you're banned

We have a fairly implausible question, an amusing but utterly implausible reply and several people who against all the odds take it seriously. I think my remarks tend towards fair comment in the circumstances rather than personal insult. Anyway, its the internet, we don't know each other so becoming exorcised about anonymous comments about anonymous people is a bit too self indulgent in my view.

So will you ban me for disagreeing with you?

Anan1

Locutus wrote:

Anyway, its the internet, we don't know each other so becoming exorcised about anonymous comments about anonymous people is a bit too self indulgent in my view.

Exorcised? Are you sure you don't mean excited?:D

528i

If theres less oil to pump and circulate around the engine then you have less resistance and load on the engine, and if the oil level remains low you also have a weight saving, therefore a marginal improvement (every little counts ) in fuel economy.

Justin, apologise to the man for that outburst

Locutus

Locutus wrote:

We have a fairly implausible question, an amusing but utterly implausible reply and several people who against all the odds take it seriously. I think my remarks tend towards fair comment in the circumstances rather than personal insult. Anyway, its the internet, we don't know each other so becoming exorcised about anonymous comments about anonymous people is a bit too self indulgent in my view.

So will you ban me for disagreeing with you?

You type like you have swallowed a dictionary.

Seriously.

Anan1

528i wrote:

If theres less oil to pump and circulate around the engine then you have less resistance and load on the engine,

Provided there is enough oil to feed the oil pump, the oil level has no bearing on oil pressure or "resistance and load on the engine"

528i wrote:

and if the oil level remains low you also have a weight saving, therefore a marginal improvement (every little counts ) in fuel economy.

You could make similar savings by using the bathroom before each journey.;)

MeatProduct

Thank you all for your input, negative as well as positive (excluding the insults).

I expected to get advice but not the amount of negativity displayed here. I can certainly understand why it might be challenging for some people to accept that I want to improve the mpg on a sports car but that's my personal issue and I wasn't asking for a response on the reasoning behind it. We all have our own baggage and don't need to start swinging it at each other.

There are a few things I will do to my car based on the comments here and there's some things I won't do. I'm not very comfortable doing things with the oil as you suggested 528i as I'm not very competent with the workings of cars. But thanks!



Nick

Locutus

MeatProduct wrote:

Thank you all for your input, negative as well as positive (excluding the insults).

I expected to get advice but not the amount of negativity displayed here. I can certainly understand why it might be challenging for some people to accept that I want to improve the mpg on a sports car but that's my personal issue and I wasn't asking for a response on the reasoning behind it. We all have our own baggage and don't need to start swinging it at each other.

There are a few things I will do to my car based on the comments here and there's some things I won't do. I'm not very comfortable doing things with the oil as you suggested 528i as I'm not very competent with the workings of cars. But thanks!



Nick

I wouldn't be very comfortable with doing anything that Brendan suggests (ever) on the basis that he probably wants to see a plume of flame or something in the distance just out of badness, that or because he is priming you for an entry in www.darwinawards.com

eob

I must say that 528i's advice is spot on for any discerning motorist who wishes to save a few quid on his motoring budget. Impressive stuff, and the sort of thing car companies just don't want you to know.

MeatBox, as you drive a Honda, I presume performance is also of the upmost importance? If so, there are several ways you can improve performance and fuel consumption at the same time.

There are two major things to think about when it comes to fuel consumption, one is weight, the other is air-resistance.

First we'll talk about weight. To make your car as light as possible, remove anything from it you don't use on a daily basis. This would include keeping any spare change out of the ashtray, remove the cigarrette lighter, but for major savings, quickly move onto bigger things like bits of the dashboard that aren't in use. Have a look at the roof lining. Do you need it?

Another weighty item of note is the seats. As you are a Honda driver, I'm sure you're accustomed to looking around the interior of your car and seeing a lot of empty chairs, right? Then why not aim for maximum fuel saving and unbolt any unnecessary seats that aren't in use. You can always bolt them back in later, or, use them as rudimentary furniture in your council house. They will make an interesting talking point amongst your friends.

In the unlikely event you have a girlfriend, explain your excess fuel consumption dillemma, and suggest she loses as much weight as possible. If she's unwilling, or unable, to lay off the choclate and shed a few pounds, suggest items she may find essential are left at home, like giant hoopy earrings, fags, and stolen tracksuits. This will reduce the weight of your car and increase your performance.

Now, we've talked a lot about weight already, but what about air-resistance? This is something 528i forgot to mention as crucial to fuel consumption. Remove anything from the car that juts out, causing drag, and friction with the air, like, the radio aerial, wing mirrors, that sort of thing. Have a good walk around the car. Ask yourself, do I need half this stuff? And start unbolting the stuff you don't.

One simple fix is to employ a roll of sticky tape to effectively seal up any panel gaps, shutlines, etc, turning your car into a plastic bullet Honda always meant it to be.

Even things you wouldn't think could affect your fuel consumption, like big giant Spenzo-R stickers, Japanese graphics, 'Mission Aborted: Gone For A Spliff' written across the back window, etc, can add both weight and drag.

Combining many of the suggestions above could save you, easily, 10-20MPG in fuel consumption.

Happy Motoring.

unkel

Enough already