I guess Britain killing it's subjects...

bobbysands81

just ain't as newsworthy as I though it'd be?

I mean why no "Scum!" or "Murdering Bastards" headline on the Sun? (Eh you won't find anything on the Irish(sic) Sun's front page.)

Why is the Irish(sic) Independent(sic) saying in it's headline that it's going to help SF with policing? (talk about throwing mud!)

Why does the Irish(sic) Daily Mail not have it on their front page?

The Irish(sic) Star? Nope!

HeraldAM - what murder???

It takes the other free morning paper the Metro to give the news it deserves on the front page (let's remember that this is just one unit in North Belfast):

"Blood on their hands

Up to 15 people murdered
10 attempted killings
10 punishment shootings
13 punishment attacks
Monaghan bomb attack
Plans for a Dublin bomb
17 cases of drug dealing
Evidence destroyed"

Where's are the politicians now who were so voiceforous in the likes of the Robert McCartney murder and the Northern Bank Robbery - Shame on you!

Irish Media - Where's your mock outrage? - Shame on you!

Irish people - For the most part easily manipulative, more interested in Celebrity Big Brother than in a real news story.

Unionist politicians??? Racist bigots. Why aren't you tripping over yourselves to condemn this? More importantly why aren't you being door-stepped by the media demanding condemnation???

Irish Government - You're a shower of jokers, roll over there and let Bliar scratch your bellies again.

Northern Republicans - Once again I'm ashamed that we down south never backed you up properly, we're too cowardly and interested in our own self-preservation, your own police force was overseeing your deaths yet we stood idly by.

The Irish Army - MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! What is one of the main objectives of an army???

The IRA - Congratulations for having the balls to protect your people - you wouldn't have been needed had the 26 stood by our people instead.

When those who make the law break the law, in the name of the law, there is no law.

Zambia

If you keep digging long enough you will find more atrocities , sometimes you really should stop digging. There's nothing down there that a lot of us up here ever want to see again.

For every thing you find either community can respond with their own sad tales. While understanding your outrage I cant see why the national presses in the republic should be screaming about this. What would the stirring of the irish people achieve?

I personnally would rather a 1000 politicians discussed this for a 10000 years rather than a return to the tye of behaviour you describe above by either side.

bobbysands81

Zambia232 wrote:

If you keep digging long enough you will find more atrocities , sometimes you really should stop digging. There's nothing down there that a lot of us up here ever want to see again.

For every thing you find either community can respond with their own sad tales. While understanding your outrage I cant see why the national presses in the republic should be screaming about this. What would the stirring of the irish people achieve?

I personnally would rather a 1000 politicians discussed this for a 10000 years rather than a return to the tye of behaviour you describe above by either side.

But the whole point is that you only have to scratch and not dig, this was one small unit in the 06.

It's impossible to move on unless you confront and deal with the past - isn't that what we all want to do? It's essential that we move forward. However, that doesn't mean that we have to sweep things under the carpet, if that happens it'll eventually come back and bite us when we're least expecting it.

I'm bemused that you don't find it newsworthy, a state kills it's people and it's not newsworthy??? But that's the whole point of my thread - maybe it's not newsworthy in that the deaths of some people mean a lot lot less than the deaths of others...

And when it comes down to it Big brother (in a different country) and the people lifting the salvage from boat wreck (also in a different country) are obviously more important and deemed more newsworthy than government hit squads operating on our island and carrying out acts of war against the people of the Republic of Ireland.

Snickers Man

bobbysands81 wrote:

It's impossible to move on unless you confront and deal with the past - isn't that what we all want to do? It's essential that we move forward. However, that doesn't mean that we have to sweep things under the carpet, if that happens it'll eventually come back and bite us when we're least expecting it.

I agree 100 per cent. Given that amnesty has been granted to all but a few of the most recalcitrant guerillas on either side of the divide. And given that an appointed servant of the crown has produced this damning report, I think we should have something like the Truth and Reconciliation Commission in South Africa, where a true and accurate record of what went on is compiled, those accountable are named and their involvement is made a matter of historical record. Without fear of future legal retribution. Then we can 'move on'.

Who was on the IRA Army Council and when? What 'operations' did the likes of McGuinness and Adams personally sanction? Who was really in the 'Nutting Squad"? How many people did they kill and what procedures were followed before deciding on somebody's fate? I think we should be told. Just as we should be told, indeed have been told, about the murky waters in which the British state paddled while running informers in loyalist gangs.

Think Gerry and Marty would buy into all of that?

bobbysands81

Snickers Man wrote:

I agree 100 per cent. Given that amnesty has been granted to all but a few of the most recalcitrant guerillas on either side of the divide. And given that an appointed servant of the crown has produced this damning report, I think we should have something like the Truth and Reconciliation Commission in South Africa, where a true and accurate record of what went on is compiled, those accountable are named and their involvement is made a matter of historical record. Without fear of future legal retribution. Then we can 'move on'.

Who was on the IRA Army Council and when? What 'operations' did the likes of McGuinness and Adams personally sanction? Who was really in the 'Nutting Squad"? How many people did they kill and what procedures were followed before deciding on somebody's fate? I think we should be told. Just as we should be told, indeed have been told, about the murky waters in which the British state paddled while running informers in loyalist gangs.

Think Gerry and Marty would buy into all of that?

I'm no supporter of SF mate but Gerry and Martin have called for a Truth and Reconciliation many times.

I think the setting up of such a forum would be a constructive and necessary (though painful) step for the future of this island.

Snickers Man wrote:

Just as we should be told, indeed have been told, about the murky waters in which the British state paddled while running informers in loyalist gangs.

In fairness we haven't been told all about the muddy waters, only ONE UNIT in North Belfast, attempts to establish a Truth and Reconciliation Forum have been quashed by the Brits. Already Peter Hain has refused an independent Inquiry into RUC collusion, this would suggest that there is a lot lot more truth to come out if the will was there to bring it out.

However, on the other side there has been a concerted media campaign against Republicansim whereby the muddy waters have in fact been public muddy waters reported in the media all along - truth wasn't even an issue, it didn't matter if something was true or false, throw enough mud and it sticks - look at the Northern Bank Robbery, sure even the dogs on the street know it was the IRA but ask where the proof is and note the stony silence!

Look at how many miles of column inches were taken up by the Northern Bank Robbery, now look at today's papers which prove that the British killed their own people and perpatrated acts of war against this country.

Now tell me which was worse and explain the antipathy of the media?

Snickers Man

bobbysands81 wrote:

Gerry and Martin have called for a Truth and Reconciliation many times.

I think the setting up of such a forum would be a constructive and necessary (though painful) step for the future of this island.

We are as one then. But I don't recall ever hearing ANYBODY from Sinn Fein calling for a Truth and Reconcilation Forum. Mind you, I don't hang on their every word so it could be true. Any links to material which I could read up to broaden my education?

I remember an interview between Adams and Peter Taylor, one of the more open minded and knowledgeable reporters on the whole Northern Ireland issue when Taylor was pressing him on the degree of closeness between the IRA Army Council and the Sinn Fein leadership and Adams got decidedly ratty with him. 'I don't go into details with you or any other journalist on the mechanism by which we make contact with the IRA' he said.

Translation for 'the dogs in the street': "I'm not admitting to talking to myself. That would make me look stupid"

Doesn't sound like somebody who would be wholly candid about the details of his work in "the struggle".

bobbysands81 wrote:

Look at how many miles of column inches were taken up by the Northern Bank Robbery, now look at today's papers which prove that the British killed their own people and perpatrated acts of war against this country.

Now tell me which was worse and explain the antipathy of the media?

Well to be fair. It was first item in all the news bulletins I listened to yesterday. And I haven;t seen any papers today yet but I hardly think it will disappear from the opinion or news columns just yet. How much coverage is enough for you?

bobbysands81 wrote:

I'm no supporter of SF mate but

..you just call yourself after Bobby Sands. Does this mean you're an admirer of his nutty sister?

lostexpectation

yeha hain and blair are talking about history and the past, it was up to 1997¬

Jackie laughlin

I hate to be repetitive on this site but SF/IRA killed more catholics than all the others put together!

The reason that this collusion is so awful is that public servants have behaved no better than psedo-republican and loyalist terrorists.

Thrill

You condemn this ( and rightly so)

bobbysands81 wrote:

"Blood on their hands

Up to 15 people murdered
10 attempted killings
10 punishment shootings
13 punishment attacks
Monaghan bomb attack
Plans for a Dublin bomb
17 cases of drug dealing
Evidence destroyed"

And yet you congratulate the IRA, who have killed countless innocent men, women and children with their bombs and bullets...

bobbysands81 wrote:

The IRA - Congratulations for having the balls to protect your people - you wouldn't have been needed had the 26 stood by our people instead.

Thats pure hypocrisy.

bobbysands81 wrote:

Irish people - For the most part easily manipulative, more interested in Celebrity Big Brother than in a real news story.

Total bollix. This is a big story which most Irish people will watch, read and talk about.

Jackie laughlin

BS81, I don't think you understand the difference between "protection" and "protection racket".

Judt

I think that rather than get irate about it, many people simply want to put this chapter behind them and concentrate on ensuring things like fair policing in the future. It may be wrong to totally ignore this, but I think that rather than recriminate one should look to the future. Tony Blair admitted and apologised for the British role in NI some years back... to be honest, what would it take from the British to appease Irish anger on this topic? There's probably nothing they could give us that would then have Irish people saying one and all "Okay then, what's done is done."

Rather than be like, say, some unionists who want the 60's status quo to return, we should look to the future. What's done is done, and it's not worth risking another life for the sake of words.

flogen

This thread has (as expected) turned too much into your standard pro/anti SF rant that you'd expect to see getting locked rather quickly on the politics forum.

There is a discussion to be had on the media coverage of the collusion report (and there's another thread started in the forum about it which you're free to use, once you stay on topic)

This thread is now locked, however, and I'll happily do the same to any more that go down the same path.
Stay on the topic of media coverage in future.