Ents this year

griffdaddy

I noticed lately there was a lot of bitching about the Ents officer, holly, because apparently she wasn't providing 'good' acts. I have no affiliation with her, i didnt even vote for her cause i wasn't arsed voting, but anyone who can bring justice and erol alkan to a student bar is doing something very very right. sure, she mightn't be getting cover bands to play cover versions of cover songs, but she's bringing genuinely ground-breaking acts to ucd at a very reasonable price, acts who's tickets would usually sell for €30 plus. recognise dedication.

Red Alert

so after 3 months messing around with her equally vacuous friends she's finally figured out what she's supposed to be doing... very good holly :rolleyes:

i don't know why we're dancing in the streets because she's finally brought Erol Alkan - i sure as hell prefer acts like him to the pap/damien-rice-alikes we're usually served up, but it's taken her this long to have an act worthy of mentioning by name.

this is what she should have been doing from day one, and as such deserves no clap on the back.

Umaro

omg i know you din't just call her and her blonde oh-my-god squad "vacuous" - it's on now.

singingstranger

Red Alert wrote:

i don't know why we're dancing in the streets because she's finally brought Erol Alkan - i sure as hell prefer acts like him to the pap/damien-rice-alikes we're usually served up, but it's taken her this long to have an act worthy of mentioning by name.

this is what she should have been doing from day one, and as such deserves no clap on the back.

Well, in all fairness, these people have schedules of their own and can't really be summoned on a whim, and between that and needing to provide adequate time between the start of the term and the gig itself, as well as not running it too close to Justice to risk splitting the crowd, it really couldn't have been a whole lot sooner tbh.

Without knowing the full deal, I think a good sign there's something wrong is when posters start appearing in Trinity advertising UCD nights out.

Jonny Arson

griffdaddy wrote:

I noticed lately there was a lot of bitching about the Ents officer, holly, because apparently she wasn't providing 'good' acts. I have no affiliation with her, i didnt even vote for her cause i wasn't arsed voting, but anyone who can bring justice and erol alkan to a student bar is doing something very very right. sure, she mightn't be getting cover bands to play cover versions of cover songs, but she's bringing genuinely ground-breaking acts to ucd at a very reasonable price, acts who's tickets would usually sell for €30 plus. recognise dedication.

I read on one of the electric picnic forums not long back that Alkan is been paid a five figure sum to play this gig when he's no more than a 2k-3k act. Similarly with Justice, an extorionate sum of money was paid for them aswell way way above the going rate.

If that is true it watch out for this years UCD Ball bankrupting the union into oblivion. It seems to me Ents are lacking any brain cells when it comes to booking acts and running events properly and efficiently.

Stabshauptmann

Zane from MTV2 wrote:

It seems to me Ents are lacking any brain cells when it comes to booking acts and running events properly and efficiently.

Its not just the big acts that are milking the union, the selection and payments of warmup acts seems rather dodge. The postering of events is haphazard; late and often over other posters. A shambles was made of the freshers ball, Holly forgot about VAT for the Justice gig!!.

Two good gigs should not be enough to ammend for the utter ineptitude of the Ents officer this year.

Red Alert

she has brought 2 acts, let's not ahead of ourselves here.

did anyone read her self-effacing Q&A on the Tribune today? yes manifestos are exaggerated, but she practically admitted to lying on her manifesto.

jimi_t

Zane from MTV2 wrote:

Similarly with Justice, an extorionate sum of money was paid for them aswell way way above the going rate.[\QUOTE]

I'm afraid I've heard differently - the cost of hiring the crash barriers, lighting, soundsystem etc... were probably more than the act

gubbie

The budget should be coming up in council soon enough. That should be in it but ... then again I'm not too sure. Anyone know would something like that be in it (I mean mentioned specifically as "Justice..." rather then just all grouped together as "Ents")

Stabshauptmann

I have copies of previous yrs accounts that I found on newswire and they are by no means itemised

Dontico

holy rocks!
i'm thinking of getting a t-shirt with her face on it in a little heart!

i've told by my friends, its very to guess who i am on boards. holy you can guess if you're reading this.

Red Alert

Dontico wrote:

holy rocks!
i'm thinking of getting a t-shirt with her face on it in a little heart!

i've told by my friends, its very to guess who i am on boards. holy you can guess if you're reading this.

thanks for reinforcing the point i made about vacuousness

GusherING

Red Alert wrote:

she has brought 2 acts, let's not ahead of ourselves here.

did anyone read her self-effacing Q&A on the Tribune today? yes manifestos are exaggerated, but she practically admitted to lying on her manifesto.

I was quite annoyed by it. Her comments about council are a tad rich to say the least. How many times has Council heard a report from Holly. Twice. The first time was to introduce her plans for the year at 1st Council. Hardly a report. The second time was because Dan Hayden was told to get her in front of the last council. She shows up, then fecks off before she gives a report. Sorry if we're wasting your time Holly, but I and plenty of students want to know what the hell we are paying you for.

Stepherunie

I have to agree with GusherING here, the few times I've seen her speak before council and indeed at class rep training she seemed to be almost insulted that we were asking her questions.

The prime example being when she was questioned at first council about the UCDents hoodies and who had paid for them etc. She nearly bit the head off the person who asked the question (can't for the life of me remember who it was) and proceeded to be completely snide in her remarks on the subject.

At class rep training she was also extremely rude when a discussion was taking place, actually going as far as to tell people to be quiet when they were trying to ask valid questions.

Ents this year has little to show for itself, the choice of bands, events etc is severely lacking, last year there was a decent enough gig every week - this year I think I've actually heard about about 5 of the bands that played and i'd be fairly well up on the Dublin music scene.

Tbh though it's also the electorates fault - she was voted in on the basis of one day which she organised, it was mainly on campus with one band playing if I recall correctly (I am open to correction on this). It required the SU, not actual links within the ents industry to effectively pull that day off, and that's where we went wrong, people didn't look at the credentials and think about it enough - they went for the high profile candidate with her Presidents award etc.

The_Minister

F-ing useless for help organising class parties too.
She wouldn't be competant to stand trial.

Het-Field

Im sorry, but i feel its very difficult to blame her for the quality of music which comes to UCD. Ireland has an extremely limited music scene. Anybody who will sit there and tell me that the like of the Blizzards, the Loose, Bell X1 etc are going to make it big, clearely dont know their music. Ireland has always been very hostile to diverse styles of music.. Singer/Songwriter acts are en vogue now, and that is why we have to get used to the fact that thats all any colleges ents will be able to offer us, particularly given the poor budget ents gets for the year

In 1999 after playing a live set, and winning an award at the MTV Europe Music Awards, The Offspring turned up on campus, and started playing. I **** you not, The ****in Offspring. However, dumbass security told them to pack it in That shows exactly how hostile Irish people can be to diverse music.

Last year, I worked with Anto to get a Metallica tribute band to play the SU Bar. That was to be the only metal act I saw in UCD between September 2003, and today.


The UCD Ball is going to be another major event, but if what people are sayjing about the fees for Erol Alkan and Justice are true, then you can rest assured that the line up for the UCD Ball 2007 will be somewhat similir, only without any major headliner. Even though Bell X1 Dont strike me as being a headlining sort of band.

Iv been banging on about this, but in successive years, Cambridge or Oxford or LSE had Placebo, and Weezer headline their college balls. Now there is no camparison between Bell X1 and Placebo, and Weezer are damn big also.

Unless major headlining acts are available, then it is pointless to blame Holly for "crap ents". The fact of the matter is, what she has to work with is what is crap. Mind numbing singer/songwriters who fariely talentless, but have **** all charisma, and that adds up to bad nights.

Umaro

Like Richard Butler says "I wouldn't have put Holly in charge of a pencil"

tintinr35

tickets were 20 euro for the dj in the bar on wednesday night, thats outrageous for a student night!

dajaffa

tintinr35 wrote:

tickets were 20 euro for the dj in the bar on wednesday night, thats outrageous for a student night!

€15 actually, or so the posters say.

Miss GAAfia

Holly works extremely hard and is utterly committed to her brief. She puts in long hours and has the most difficult job on the corridor by far, as the Union only reaches a lot of students through Ents and thus there is huge responsibility in her job. I have and will defend her, although she (and the Ents office generally) is not without fault.

Two points:
1. Bar assistance from societies this year, there is no Ents crew except for the inner hack immediates.
2. There is very little co-operation on the corridor this year in regards to Ents events. Support should come from the top, as it doesn't. It's a matter of a lack of communciation and lack of leadership. This is not Holly's fault, and I believe it is her frustration that leads people to see her as short with people.

I don't like the fact that threads such as these have potential to turn into personal attacks on any individuals. Nor do I see this as the most effective forum from which to criticise any officer, but the fact remains that there is a degree of secrecy and a lack of communication from the Ents office this year. The correct platform to question any element of Ents is through Council, but as we have seen this year through ill-prepared and pointless reports to poorly chaired sittings, Council is nothing short of a Circus and it would be embarassing if the "ordinary member" walked in to attend.

Young Siward

Het-Field wrote:

In 1999 after playing a live set, and winning an award at the MTV Europe Music Awards, The Offspring turned up on campus, and started playing. I **** you not, The ****in Offspring. However, dumbass security told them to pack it in That shows exactly how hostile Irish people can be to diverse music.

Iv been banging on about this, but in successive years, Cambridge or Oxford or LSE had Placebo, and Weezer headline their college balls. Now there is no camparison between Bell X1 and Placebo, and Weezer are damn big also.

Unless major headlining acts are available, then it is pointless to blame Holly for "crap ents". The fact of the matter is, what she has to work with is what is crap. Mind numbing singer/songwriters who fariely talentless, but have **** all charisma, and that adds up to bad nights.

Yeah I saw that Offspring clip on MTV as well. We might disagree on this, but I'd be tempted to do the music world a favour and chuck them all in the lake, but that's just me...

Oh be fair, in terms of an Irish audience, BellX1 would probably have a bigger Irish fanbase than Placebo. Remember Mundy headlined the Fresher's Ball a couple of years back. Mundy!

Erol Alkin wouldn't really float my boat, but it did look like the bar was pretty packed alright. More of the same with Sugardaddy next week. If the punters are packing the bar, then maybe she's starting to turn it around....hopefully.

panda100

Miss GAAfia wrote:

but as we have seen this year through ill-prepared and pointless reports to poorly chaired sittings, Council is nothing short of a Circus and it would be embarassing if the "ordinary member" walked in to attend.

If the next council i.e Monday turns into another circus then I will walk down to the front and chair the bloody lot myself.I mean how difficult is it to get everyone to shut up and listen for an hour.
If sabbats and executive officers dont show up or give a half-assed account of what they've been doing then there should be serious consequences. The only executive officer who gives a decent report is Luke Hayden......Is he the only one who takes his job seriously
It would be nice to hear from the womens officer at some stage this year too.......

lizzyvera

She never gives reports at council and she's quite unapproachable. There isn't a very wide range of ents events, they're all suited to the same interests which isn't necessary in such a huge university.
And I agree with Panda, Luke Hayden is the most thorough and he's not even working for the union full time!

Miss GAAfia

There is certainly an argument there for the order of business in the Standing Orders to be amended such that the Sabbatical Officers report to Council prior to all motions.

Reports of the executive officers could be more thorough, there is no denying that, but it needs to be acknowledged that some of these officers are full time students who get little or no assistance to run their campaign weeks or spearhead fully operational campaigns. Again, lack of planning and communication are at fault here, the two crutches of the Union this year.

Reports of Officers should never be an after-thought of Council as is the situation as it lies. Mandates for the sake of mandating type motions should most of the time be in the form of a question to the officer in front of Council. Instead we see people mandating officers through motions because if they waited till reports to question two situations could have arisen-
1. Half of Council have left already (as is commonly seen after motions are completed)
2. The Officer may not even give a report.

Thus no proper discussion can arise.

gubbie

Miss GAAfia wrote:

I don't like the fact that threads such as these have potential to turn into personal attacks on any individuals. Nor do I see this as the most effective forum from which to criticise any officer, but the fact remains that there is a degree of secrecy and a lack of communication from the Ents office this year. The correct platform to question any element of Ents is through Council, but as we have seen this year through ill-prepared and pointless reports to poorly chaired sittings, Council is nothing short of a Circus and it would be embarassing if the "ordinary member" walked in to attend.

But isn't there no said point if the officer in question is not going to show up? You can't question her in exec either because she doesn't show to that but in all fairness not many people do and a lot of the issues discussed wouldn't have much to do with the ents office.

And its not just any individual-its a person that we pay to keep in a job.

And you've been to some councils last year, council is no where near a big a circus now as it was then

dajaffa

Look this thread is about ents, not whats bad about council. This thread will invariably develop into a pro/anti SU thread. A couple of other threads are already firmly going that way + if you want to discuss that I suggest someone start a thread on newswire.

Anyway Ents this year imo has been mixed. There have been some nights that weren't run well like the launch night and the Freshers Ball, but there have been good ones like the Christmas Ball, Justice, Erol Alkan, Republic of Loose + the Hallowe'en Ball (3 of those were with BnL btw).

I think the general trend is that the Ents officer seems to be improving with experience, we were never going to have someone coming into the job with the same level of experience that Anto had last year really.

Yeah it ain't perfect this year but in fairness there's been a few decent nights.

singingstranger

While I understand dajaffa's point about this being a thread on the merits or otherwise of the Ents Office this year, you really have to note that the only way any officer can really be held accountable - and I don't allude to any one officer here, this goes right around the table - is if the fight is put up to them.

Miss GAAfia wrote:

Reports of Officers should never be an after-thought of Council as is the situation as it lies. Mandates for the sake of mandating type motions should most of the time be in the form of a question to the officer in front of Council.

When I first got involved in UCDSU, having shown up to first Council of last year because I was friends with Órla Ní Threasaigh, I think the second motion that Órla ever proposed - which I actually worded, IIRC - was mandating people to follow the Standing Orders as were on the Union website at the time, which detailed that Officer Reports should be dealt with before motions on notice. The motion ended up being pulled when it was discovered that the Standing Orders on the website were actually outdated and did in fact detail that motions on notice were to be dealt with first. This was a motion proposed by Enda Duffy and seconded by, if I recall, Fergal Scully, but I'm open to correction on this.

I'm not sure who this is more damning of - the fact that the website wasn't updated at all that year to include the updated Standing Orders - or the will of the Councillors who put Council motions on often somewhat irrelevant international topics ahead of keeping the Sabbatical and Executive Officers in check. In fact I'd openly encourage some Councillors to propose an amendment to Standing Orders putting the Officers' Reports before Motions On Notice setting this right.

I should also point out that people shouldn't bitch about Holly's attendance record at Council or Exec when last year, Anto gave (if I remember) at maximum three Council reports, two of which were merely asking people to help out at various events and one of which was an end-of-year, and showed up at Exec just once while I was on duty as Secretary.

Tayto2000

Singingstranger, if you understood Dajaffa's point, why did you completely ignore it? Repeat: This is a discussion about Ents this year. Those who feel they have to post about their part in the minutia of SU council meetings can and should do so in the council thread. Or why not post on the SU boards?

Anyhoo

Mixed bag this year, but always is. Given some of the performances in the past, not bankrupting the SU with the freshers ball was a good start but I think Ents officers always let their personal preferences flavour the bookings for acts each year. As mentioned, there's been one metal act since 2003? The acts showing up just seem... bland and uninteresting. The erol alkan night was a stand out though, well done.

Het-Field

singingstranger wrote:

While I understand dajaffa's point about this being a thread on the merits or otherwise of the Ents Office this year, you really have to note that the only way any officer can really be held accountable - and I don't allude to any one officer here, this goes right around the table - is if the fight is put up to them.

When I first got involved in UCDSU, having shown up to first Council of last year because I was friends with Órla Ní Threasaigh, I think the second motion that Órla ever proposed - which I actually worded, IIRC - was mandating people to follow the Standing Orders as were on the Union website at the time, which detailed that Officer Reports should be dealt with before motions on notice. The motion ended up being pulled when it was discovered that the Standing Orders on the website were actually outdated and did in fact detail that motions on notice were to be dealt with first. This was a motion proposed by Enda Duffy and seconded by, if I recall, Fergal Scully, but I'm open to correction on this.

I'm not sure who this is more damning of - the fact that the website wasn't updated at all that year to include the updated Standing Orders - or the will of the Councillors who put Council motions on often somewhat irrelevant international topics ahead of keeping the Sabbatical and Executive Officers in check. In fact I'd openly encourage some Councillors to propose an amendment to Standing Orders putting the Officers' Reports before Motions On Notice setting this right.

I should also point out that people shouldn't bitch about Holly's attendance record at Council or Exec when last year, Anto gave (if I remember) at maximum three Council reports, two of which were merely asking people to help out at various events and one of which was an end-of-year, and showed up at Exec just once while I was on duty as Secretary.

I remember in my capacity as Chair, Anto delivered a thin report, exclusively on the progress of the UCD Ball. While I kept quiet about my admiration for what happened next at the time, I dont mind declaring my admiration now. Conor McGowan simply said, "is that it", in a fairly sarcastic and Conor like manner. While I was one of Anto's biggest fans, I must admit I was very impressed with Conor's willingness to pull no punches. He was the first to say what we were all thinking. Absence at council, on a regular basis is unacceptable. Anto's absences gave future Ents Officers almost a mandate to not turn up at council, and therefore be held unaccountable. Its also not acceptable if Holly has offered council glib, and (as has been said) borderline rude answers to councellers questions.

Ents is not exclusive from the union brief, in spite of the fact that many officers have treated it that way. In other colleges around Ireland, the Ents brief is wrapped into the role of the President, Deputy, or "site manager". UCD is one of the few which have an independent Ents Officer.

The only way UCD could guaratee a decent workload from Ents, is to empploy somebody on afixed term contract, and make it a staff position . Like other staff positions, those who apply would be compelled to outline their visions, and show that they have relevant experience. It would also allow lies to be nipped in the bud early. I mean I find it objectionable that Holly would claim to have lied on her manifesto to garner a few votes. While people may do it, people should not express that they did it. And remeber, Holly won by few votes. An ents manager would be under the jurisdiction of the President, and he/she would have to satisfy the demand for a diverse range of music, and tastes.

ElCapitano

I totally agree with what has been said above.

The long and short of it is that Holly is useless.

Why the need to do so many joint events with the BnL? All this shows is weakness in not being able to organise and sell good events.

Strange how people like Steve Q from the BnL, who bad mouthed and campaigned so hard against her during the Ents race last year is now all of a sudden her best friend.

They even ran the Xmas nights together, which you can be sure all postering and flyering cost were put through the Ents or BnL account even though it was a private venture!

Ents posters never seem to be "up" on time and then first years are sent out to poster over other societies posters.

Still no news on who is playing the UCD Ball, if they were a large act surely they would have to be booked in by now?

singingstranger

ElCapitano wrote:

Still no news on who is playing the UCD Ball, if they were a large act surely they would have to be booked in by now?

There's a thought, a date would be nice...

/would like it to be before he goes back to Germany for Semester 2 in April

gubbie

Het-Field wrote:

In other colleges around Ireland, the Ents brief is wrapped into the role of the President, Deputy, or "site manager". UCD is one of the few which have an independent Ents Officer.

The only way UCD could guaratee a decent workload from Ents, is to empploy somebody on afixed term contract, and make it a staff position . Like other staff positions, those who apply would be compelled to outline their visions, and show that they have relevant experience. It would also allow lies to be nipped in the bud early. I mean I find it objectionable that Holly would claim to have lied on her manifesto to garner a few votes. While people may do it, people should not express that they did it. And remeber, Holly won by few votes. An ents manager would be under the jurisdiction of the President, and he/she would have to satisfy the demand for a diverse range of music, and tastes.

I always found it odd that in UCC, a college of 16,500 people, would have a part time ents officer and we have a full time one.

Paddy thats a brilliant idea about the ents position. Maybe then we'd have someone back to us like Anto

Sangre

The workings of all sabbatt positions are hugely flawed. There is no accountability when your elected position is only for one year. You can be as crap or as great as you want and it won't make a difference, you'll still have been an UCD sabbat officer.

Its pointless basing a paid, year-long position on a few fliers handed out for about 2 weeks. Not to mention people only voting for their own faculty members. Essentially it seems people's ability for the job has no bearing on election results. Not to mention the fact that how could the average college student have the necessary experience for any of these positions?

The_Minister

Can sabbats be impeached?

Sangre

I would certainly imagine so, but the fact they're office is only for a year means there is usual little impetus to do so. It would have to be something hugely scandolous rather than just being bad at the position.

Chakar

The_Minister wrote:

Can sabbats be impeached?

Usually sabbatical officers can be "persuaded" to resign following the passing of a motion of no confidence.

Otherwise the last resort is a referendum which can remove the officer from office.

Miss GAAfia

ElCapitano wrote:

Ents posters never seem to be "up" on time and then first years are sent out to poster over other societies posters.

If this is true then you should take this matter further and lodge an official complaint.

singingstranger

The_Minister wrote:

Can sabbats be impeached?

From the UCDSU Constitution:

Article 11(9) wrote:

(i) A Sabbatical Officer may be removed by a referendum held in accordance with Article 6(3) & (4) of this Constitution. Such shall be the only means, other than resignation, by which a Sabbatical Officer may be removed from office.
(ii) Where such a proposal is approved it shall take effect upon the declaration of the Chief Returning Officer.

Articles 6(3) and (4), by the way, merely deal with the general rules for holding a referendum, including that a referendum may only be initiated either by the direction of Council (i.e. a mandate) or "shall be called by the Returning Officers on petition in writing of not less than 3.5% members of the Union at the time of submission", which usually turns out to be about 830 or so.

Anton17

You have to bear in mind that most students in UCD know **** all about music and wouldn't recognize a quality act anyway. 90% of people responded with a 'who?' when asked iif they were going to the gig. Erol's profile has gone through the roof in the past two years. People are just largely ignorant. The crowd at the erol gig was easily a 50/50 split of students and non-students.Where as almost everyone at the Republic of Loose gig was in UCD. It's obvious what the majority of students want, if thats bland irish acts, so be it.
And there is no way Erol or a similar act would charge a 5 figure sum for a wedendsay night gig. Give credit where credit is due. Last wedensday was great, the christmas ball and justice were good as well. And Holly seems a to be a fairly sound girl too.

Jonny Arson

Anton17 wrote:

And there is no way Erol or a similar act would charge a 5 figure sum for a wedendsay night gig. Give credit where credit is due. Last wedensday was great, the christmas ball and justice were good as well. And Holly seems a to be a fairly sound girl too.

I believe the majority of that sum is going to certain promoter who cannot be named. They get the act for Ents and Ents pay a ****load to them. Ents are been raped left right and centre by this tie-up. Who's responsibility for this I'm unsure of, I believe this agreement came after last years flop of UCD ball. I hope the UCDSU publish figures on what exactly these gigs are costing them and who's recieving what money.