Television Market Share

Elmo

Perhaps I am a little wrong about the over all share of the view in Ireland, but it surprises me that Setanta and Channel 6 have yet to gain a 1% each of the viewers available.

I am assume that the majority of people in Dublin have Analogue Cable which gives them access to these channels even if they have sky. I know a fair amount still don't get setanta for free or channel 6 but I still think that the market share is out for both channels. Again perhaps I am wrong about this. I am taking into account that Sky and some local cable operator have yet to put Channel 6 on their service but with access to NTL/Chorus analogue which is still available to most people their Market share seems very very low. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

1 RTE 1 23.3
2 TV3 11.1
3 RTE 2 10.2
4 BBC 1 7.7
5 UTV 6.7
6 CH 4 5.2
7 BBC 2 4.2
8 TG4 2.4
9 SKY One 2.2
10 SKY News 1.7
11 E4 1.5
12 SKY SPORTS 1 1.3
13 MTV 0.9
14 Nickelodeon 0.7 / Paramount 0.7
15 SKY SPORTS 2 0.6
16 Setanta Sports 0.5
17 Channel 6 0.4
18 Living TV 0.3
19 All Other TV 17.8

Also I know Setanta is only available free on NTL in Dublin, Galway and Waterford. But not to have over taken Sky Sports 1 after nearly 2 years on the air seems strange to me.

byte

Is there much worth watching on Setanta, apart from occasional live sporting events?

bk

The only thing worth watching on Setanta is the Magners league Rugby IMO.

As for C6, it simply doesn't offer anything that you can't already get on the hundreds of other cable TV channels. Does a person really care if they are watching a rerun of Buffy on C6 or Sky2?

Elmo

The only thing worth watching on Setanta is the Magners league Rugby IMO

Well how does SKY Sports get more viewers when they aren't as freely available.

Doesn't setanta show Eircom League, The Premireship, SPL and La Liga? Plus Golf.

As for C6, it simply doesn't offer anything that you can't already get on the hundreds of other cable TV channels. Does a person really care if they are watching a rerun of Buffy on C6 or Sky2?

I understand that but I would wonder about Sky One's and E4's market share surely its the same issue. Channel Six do have better shows IMO.

24, Prison Break, The Closer, Without a trace, CYE, Trailer Park Boys, The Office US etc.

DMC

Elmo wrote:

Well how does SKY Sports get more viewers when they aren't as freely available.

My guess is that nationally, there are more Sky Sports subscribers than viewers of NTL Digital.

Elmo wrote:

Doesn't setanta show Eircom League, The Premireship, SPL and La Liga? Plus Golf.

Maybe Sky Sports has a product worth watching, and people are willing to pay for it? I'll mention it again, when Sky Sports launched, they paid a lot of money at the likes of the Premiership, but they also threw money into the production of the sport. Production, presentation and direction were like nothing we saw compared to what BBC and ITV had shown us at that time.

Setanta on the other hand, have paid a lot of money for rights, but I can't say production values have been improved. They've regressed the experience of watching sport on TV, imo. No widescreen, weak graphics, not many camera angles, presenters not pitch-side.... Not worth 180 lids at all. The key was watching a Scottish Cup game on Sky Sports, and comparing to the SPL on Setanta. Sky showed up the cheapness. Sky even had the game in HD. Now I'm not expecting Setanta to do HD at this stage, but they will need to for the rights they have bought for the Premiership in England.

It all goes back to the EC thinking that competition is a good thing in sports rights, when they forget that it might cost more for the viewer. I'm not pro-Sky or anti-Setanta, its just that if you are going to compete with the best, Setanta must try harder. Not much point in buying into sports coverage that looks like it was produced by RTÉ in the early nineties.

Also, the important golf, such as the WGC and 2 of the 4 majors and the European Tour are are still on Sky Sports. While the US PGA Tour is a draw, its only 2 or 3 hours a night of US TV relay, and I feel that Setanta paid way over the odds for that (like a lot of stuff recently too)

(Pedant mode: La Liga is on Sky Sports, but Serie A from Italy is on Setanta)

Elmo wrote:

I understand that but I would wonder about Sky One's and E4's market share surely its the same issue. Channel Six do have better shows IMO.

24, Prison Break, The Closer, Without a trace, CYE, Trailer Park Boys, The Office US etc.

Almost all those mentioned are shows that have had their first run on other channels.

Mossy Monk

Elmo wrote:

24, Prison Break, The Closer, Without a trace, CYE, Trailer Park Boys, The Office US etc.

4 of those i know for definate are available on other channels

DMC wrote:

No widescreen

thankfully Setanta have sorted this out

bk

Elmo wrote:

Well how does SKY Sports get more viewers when they aren't as freely available.

Doesn't setanta show Eircom League, The Premireship, SPL and La Liga? Plus Golf.

Sky has much better coverage of sport people actually want, like Premiership almost total coverage and Heineken Cup Rugby.

Also Setanta is shockingly bad. Setantas coverage of F1 as atrocious compared to RTE, I quickly switched to UTV.

bk

DMC wrote:

Production, presentation and direction were like nothing we saw compared to what BBC and ITV had shown us at that time.

I wouldn't say that is always true, I find Skys coverage of the Heineken cup to be awful compared to RTE. Sky don't do it justice at all, with bored and boring British commentators, etc.

DMC

I agree with that comment on Rugby, their commentators leave a lot to be desired, but I do feel this isn't a Sky-only problem. There are no fantastic rugby commentators since Bill McLaren retired.

Mark Robson or Ryle Nugent anyone?

DMC

Mossy Monk wrote:

thankfully Setanta have sorted this out

Good to hear, Mossy.

Ulsterman 1690

Im suprised the figure for TV3 is so high given that
A) their programmes are pretty woeful.
Many parts of Ireland still cant get it

Many people still regard TV3 as "ITV Southern Ireland" If thats the case then combined with UTV gives ITV 1 almost 18 percent share in the Republic of Ireland

medja

Elmo wrote:

I understand that but I would wonder about Sky One's and E4's market share surely its the same issue. Channel Six do have better shows IMO.

24, Prison Break, The Closer, Without a trace, CYE, Trailer Park Boys, The Office US etc.

Channel Six has one of the nuttest business plans ever, They're not on SKY, and everything that they show has been on before elsewhere. In some cases 100's of times. Take Tuesday 24th Jan.


00:30 Night Shift Pop Video's no new choice!!!

02:30 Close

03:30 Star Trek: The Next Generation
Q offers Riker god-like powers, was on SKY 1, BBC 2, even RTE 1 had it on.

04:30 The LoopPop Video's no new choice!!!

07:40 Popscene Can see same material in loads of other places.

09:40 Access Hollywood same

09:50 Pop 20 same

10:00 Night Shift same


12:00 Star Trek: The Next Generation
Picard is trapped in the holosuite For heavens sake would they stay out of them. They're just as troublesome on SKY and BBC 2!!!

13:00 Seinfeld
George pretends to be a marine biologist was on RTE, TV3, BBC, SKY and still on paramount comedy!!!

13:30 Frasier paramount comedy, was also on RTE 1

14:00 Popscene same as before

16:15 7th Heaven This has been all over the place, was on RTE 1, but it pops up elsewhere.

17:10 Buffy the Vampire Slayer SKY 1 and TV 3 and elsewhere

18:05 Party of Five Was on before, not a total nerd :rolleyes: so I can't tell you were

19:00 Pop 20 Same as before

19:30 Seinfeld As before.

20:00 Scrubs RTE 2 SKY1

20:30 Four Kings Living TV

21:00 Curb Your Enthusiasm TG4, BBC 4 and More 4

21:35 24 Was on RTE, SKY and BBC

22:35 My Name Is Earl Channel 4, E4

23:05 Family Guy BBC, SKY, FX

23:35 Trailer Park Boys Was on somewhere else but can't put my finger on it.

So there you have it, it makes TV 3 look radical!!! The only people that could possibly find this of interest would be those few folks that are still in 4 channel land and there are few of those about. They can't get it anyway!

There is plenty of good product out there which no one has ever shown on these islands, However, it would be too much of a risk to go with unknown programmes. The station is far more likely to succeed if it sticks to tried and trusted shows:rolleyes:

As far as I can make out they're hoping to get a spot on DTT whenever it comes online, but that could be years yet. They'll be lucky to be on air by the end of the year at this rate.


As for Setanta, why would any SKY viewer pay to watch British Open Golf or F1 when they're free at the push of three buttons.

They have the rights to the Rubgy World Cup but again that's free to air on ITV.

bk

Ulsterman 1690 wrote:

Im suprised the figure for TV3 is so high given that
A) their programmes are pretty woeful.
Many parts of Ireland still cant get it

I think it is explained by the fact they have Cornation St, once you get out of the top 20, I think RTE have a much better and more rounded viewership figures, which boast their total Merket share. Basically without Cornation St and Emmerdale, TV3 would be non existent.

fta keith

Setanta's offering of mostly boring live Italian football which was on channel4, SPL was on bbctv and RTEtv in the last few years which are mostly predictable,

compares on tuesday nights itv1, itv4, rte2 show the uefa champions league live and rte2 show wednesday nights games

magners celtic league rugby is fta live on bbc2 wales and s4c digitol


I think the tv sport fan really knows which is value for money

I don't ever subscribe to subscription tv.

Channel6 will be fta on the Irish DTT pilot project and the Irish DTT roll out

Elmo

Channel6 will be fta on the Irish DTT pilot project and the Irish DTT roll out

I know channel six are managers of something for the Test phase but not sure if they have the go ahead to be FTA on DTT.

While I know many of their shows have been on a dozen channels before I think their mix of shows is quite good.

The closer has to be the most under-rated show on TV at the moment, I know it has been on More 4. They have House too.

I wasn't expecting Setanta or Six to have 2% of the audience but I thought they would at least have 1% of the audience in 2006.

As for Setanta its free on NTL Analogue and many Sky subscribers have still retained their NTL Basic package, also don't you have to pay extra for the Sky Sports pack on Sky? Or is sky sports part of the basic package on sky. As you can imagine I have no interest in watching Sport. I just think that for an add on channel 1.1% is very high.

I agree that Setanta should have had sports news surrounding its live coverage of matches.

I think both channels need to go free on Sky and Chorus. Is setanta free on Chorus?

Mossy Monk

Elmo wrote:

also don't you have to pay extra for the Sky Sports pack on Sky? Or is sky sports part of the basic package on sky

Sky Sports is very much a premium add on. Sky Sports News on the other hand is in the basic package (free with Freeview) but thats not surprising as it is pretty much a 24 hour advert for the premium channels

byte

Mossy Monk wrote:

Sky Sports News on the other hand is in the basic package (free with Freeview) but thats not surprising as it is pretty much a 24 hour advert for the premium channels

That's surely true, sadly.

Lochaber

Elmo wrote:

I wasn't expecting Setanta or Six to have 2% of the audience but I thought they would at least have 1% of the audience in 2006.

Just a quick comment. It does, I suppose, depend on the market you are looking at. Without being sure I presume the figures you have there are viewing share for indviduals national, are they for the whole of 2006 or just for a certain month? In either case neither Setanta or Channel 6 would be particularly concerned with that demographic, the target audience for Setanta is presumably Men 15-34 while Channel 6 has always claimed they are targeted at Adults 15-34. Since both are only available to multi channel homes then those are the figures they would be looking.

I've often seen medialive quoted as a source on boards however Nielsen have quite a bit of information on their website including monthly newsletters with audience shares in them...

http://www.agbnielsen.com/whereweare/dynPage.asp?lang=english&id=393&country=Ireland

Elmo

Those shares are for the year. So you would have to forget about the first quartart of 2006 for channel six.

strange the still call it TAM on that website I thought they had changed.

I could never find nielsen on the web, hence why I quote medialive.

Thanks for the link.

Lochaber

Elmo wrote:

Those shares are for the year. So you would have to forget about the first quartart of 2006 for channel six.

strange the still call it TAM on that website I thought they had changed.

I could never find nielsen on the web, hence why I quote medialive.

Thanks for the link.

No problem!

TAM is just Television Audience Measurement, used all over the place (though strangely enough not on wikipedia... may have to rectify that). I think it was just a coincidence... well not a real coincidence... that that was the name of the TAM service here...

copacetic

Elmo wrote:

I know channel six are managers of something for the Test phase but not sure if they have the go ahead to be FTA on DTT.

While I know many of their shows have been on a dozen channels before I think their mix of shows is quite good.

The closer has to be the most under-rated show on TV at the moment, I know it has been on More 4. They have House too.

I wasn't expecting Setanta or Six to have 2% of the audience but I thought they would at least have 1% of the audience in 2006.

As for Setanta its free on NTL Analogue and many Sky subscribers have still retained their NTL Basic package, also don't you have to pay extra for the Sky Sports pack on Sky? Or is sky sports part of the basic package on sky. As you can imagine I have no interest in watching Sport. I just think that for an add on channel 1.1% is very high.

I agree that Setanta should have had sports news surrounding its live coverage of matches.

I think both channels need to go free on Sky and Chorus. Is setanta free on Chorus?

setanta has very little sports on air compared to sky sports, they have 4 sports channels + news all running 24/7 so if you turn them on there is something there. Setanta have very little on in comparison. I don't know if SSI, 2,3 and extra are combined into the one rating but if so it would make sense that they would be high. Setanta will gain ground when they have more popular live events like the golf and premiership in the figures. Yes you do have to pay extra for sports on sky, but anyone who does is likely to watch the channels a lot.

Incidently I would doubt a lot that anyone with Sky would keep paying ntl for analog cable? So I don't think that is a valid assumption. I don't and the only channel I am missing out on is Setanta itself as far as I know?

Elmo

Incidently I would doubt a lot that anyone with Sky would keep paying ntl for analog cable? So I don't think that is a valid assumption. I don't and the only channel I am missing out on is Setanta itself as far as I know?

Strangely this seems to be a fact. It might happen less so now but many people did retain their analogue connect with NTL:Chorus and also get Sky. However I cann't point you towards that fact.

I don't know if SSI, 2,3 and extra are combined into the one rating but if so it would make sense that they would be high

No this is just regarding (0.4%) Setanta Sports Ireland (SSI) and the 1% represents SS1 (Sky Sports 1).

Of course this could all change with the addition of Channel 6 on Sky and the addition of The Rugby World Cup on Setanta over the summer (However they will have to contend with other coverage from BBC and Sky???? who owns the rights to RWC in the UK?)

Mossy Monk

ITV has the rights in the UK which can be seen on cable and tuned in on satellite

copacetic

Elmo wrote:

Strangely this seems to be a fact. It might happen less so now but many people did retain their analogue connect with NTL:Chorus and also get Sky. However I cann't point you towards that fact.



No this is just regarding (0.4%) Setanta Sports Ireland (SSI) and the 1% represents SS1 (Sky Sports 1).

Of course this could all change with the addition of Channel 6 on Sky and the addition of The Rugby World Cup on Setanta over the summer (However they will have to contend with other coverage from BBC and Sky???? who owns the rights to RWC in the UK?)

hmmm, I guess maybe when people were missing channel 4 and how to tune UTV they kept it for that? Now with ch4 and how to tune UTV well know I would say it would be unusual to keep both. Although maybe people with bigger houses than me like the ntl in every room? I dunno really.

Setanta are deffo going to get bigger, the PGA golf was a big draw to sky sports for golf fans, with this the soccer and rugby world cup they can only get bigger. The rugby world cup won't be on sky, in Ireland the irish games will be on TV3, every game will be on Setanta and most on ITV?

incidently I now have seen channel 6 for the first time and amn't too impressed. haven't seen one show on it yet that isn't on other satellite channels. e.g tonight: friends, fthat 70s show, frasier, scrubs, seinfeld, the L word.. all ok shows but all old ones seen before elsewhere..

Mossy Monk

daveym wrote:

Setanta are deffo going to get bigger, the PGA golf was a big draw to sky sports for golf fans, with this the soccer and rugby world cup they can only get bigger. The rugby world cup won't be on sky, in Ireland the irish games will be on TV3, every game will be on Setanta and most on ITV?

Setanta i feel will go the way of ITV Digital

paying way too much for sporting events

ITV will show all the Ireland games. viewers of UTV up north may be pissed off otherwise

Elmo

incidently I now have seen channel 6 for the first time and amn't too impressed. haven't seen one show on it yet that isn't on other satellite channels. e.g tonight: friends, fthat 70s show, frasier, scrubs, seinfeld, the L word.. all ok shows but all old ones seen before elsewhere..

Channel 6 would be better trying to buy Bigger shows not yet seen here, and repeating them more often.

Channel 6 have basically bought alot of cheap shows rather then what E4 has done which is to buy in the top shows and repeat them as much as possible. Perhaps this would be a better way to go for C6?

Now they have Friends too :rolleyes:

Do ITV have rights only for Scottish, English, Irish and Welsh Matchs?

copacetic

i believe ITV have the full rights, they bought them when they bought the last WRC..

Mossy Monk

yes they do

no doubt coverage will be spread out on ITV4 as well as ITV1

copacetic

hmmm, have found myself watching an hour or so of channel 6 a day since it has come on sky. eg tonight, stumbled across season 1 of NYPD blue (also know as the season that sipowitz smiles in). So thats at least a couple of hours a week they are getting off me. numb3rs is good and its not on other satellite much, and can't go far wrong with seinfeld, curb or it's always sunny in philly even if they are on other channels.

not a bad addition to sky and seem to have a good chance of building up a share if they can hold out money wise until they build an audience.