Channel 5 (not same question!)

The Sparrow

Just read the other (now closed or I would have posted it there) thread on if it is possible to get channel 5 here on SKY. Well I was listening to the Tony Fenton show on Today FM during the week and they were doing a segment about what people should watch on TV that night. Well one of the things that they mentioned was on Channel 5! But surely nobody can get that here without an illegal UK FTV card??! So why would they recommend a show that nobody could watch?

Is it a case of dumb researchers not realising that fact or can you get Five on Chorus or some other system?

DMC

Today FM does have a decent enough penetration into NI, anyone up there with Freeview, Sky or an FTV card can view five, so a listener up there could've recommended that programme.

Channel 5 is available on the cable system in Dungarvan and some deflector systems, iirc.

watty

Under EU law a FTV card is NOT illegal here. Sky are entitled to NOT supply it here though.

A huge number of people can get UK analog Channel5 and also UK DTT/Freeview.

Mossy Monk

woooo232 wrote:

But surely nobody can get that here without an illegal UK FTV card??! So why would they recommend a show that nobody could watch?

Is it a case of dumb researchers not realising that fact or can you get Five on Chorus or some other system?

who made FTV cards illegal or did you not research it first?

wex96

a lot of people "down south" can get channel 5 with a normal ariel

The Sparrow

Mossy Monk wrote:

who made FTV cards illegal or did you not research it first?

I assumed they were. I read something about them being removed from ebay a while ago and assumed that must have been because it was illegal to sell them. Does that not make them illegal to buy for use in this country??

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054983941

Watty wrote:

Because they belong to Sky/NDS. Thus illegal to sell on eBay.
Tecnically they can only be obtained from Sky, but agents / proxies in UK can pay for one for you.

DMC

Sky ask for them to be pulled from ebay as the card is still the property of Sky (or NDS), so they are selling something that the seller doesnt own.

You own the digibox/ Sky+ from day one, but never the card.

The Sparrow

DMC wrote:

Sky ask for them to be pulled from ebay as the card is still the property of Sky (or NDS), so they are selling something that the seller doesnt own.

You own the digibox/ Sky+ from day one, but never the card.

Exactly my point... If the card remains the property of SKY and it is illegal to sell them on ebay then surely it is therefore illegal to import one into Ireland?!

DMC

AFAIK, its not been proven in Irish or UK courts.

The Sparrow

DMC wrote:

AFAIK, its not been proven in Irish or UK courts.

Yeah but likewise it therefore hasn`t been proven that it is legal. I know that is a bit pedantic, but from the facts that the cards remain the property of SKY and
that they are removed from ebay because it is deemed that it is illegal to sell the cards without the consent of SKY, I think you would have to assume that they are in fact illegal.

If I was to buy something that was your property from ebay with the knowledge that you had never consented to that item being on ebay and in fact had explicitly stated that you forbid anyone from putting that item on ebay then surely that would be illegal? I don`t see how this is any different...

DMC

It would be classed as theft. I just want to expand on my last point, Its not been proven in the courts, that is, if the terms and conditions of Sky's contract with the customer stands up. But as neither has been put through the wringer, you'd have to say they are within their rights to stop the sale of cards on ebay.

I will say, that the problems does not lie with their perceived illegality or theft, its asking Sky weather or not it is worth it trying to chase each and ever FTV that has swam the Irish Sea or crossed the border, or suing each card holder, for something that costs a pittance.

The Sparrow

DMC wrote:

I will say, that the problems does not lie with their perceived illegality or theft, its asking Sky weather or not it is worth it trying to chase each and ever FTV that has swam the Irish Sea or crossed the border, or suing each card holder, for something that costs a pittance.

You are right of course because it is a hypothetical point because of course as you rightly pointed out, such a case would be unlikely to be taken by SKY for the reasons you outlined.

i was just responding to the points made about my earlier post that seemed to indicate that I had made it up that those cards could be illegal. I noted that there was mention of European law making these cards legal, but I also noted that nobody provided a link to that legislation or any information about it

zAbbo

You can get CH5 on terrestrial here (louth) and Monaghan, I'm sure it can be picked up elsewhere as well.

watty

woooo232 wrote:

Exactly my point... If the card remains the property of SKY and it is illegal to sell them on ebay then surely it is therefore illegal to import one into Ireland?!

Wrong logic.
If the card is legally obtained it may be taken ANYWHERE, as long as it is returned to Sky if they ask for it. Specifically while Sky are allowed under EU law to limit where they issue it for once off charge (They don't sell it as such), it is illegal for Sky to forbid movement of the card within the EU later. It may be legal to forbid removing it from EU, but if you did, then EU Law would not apply, so that would not be illegal either!

Summary:
1) You can't sell it as it belongs to Sky.
2) You can use it anywhere. Separate issue.
3) If someone got it for you then that is not illegal either! (Concept of proxy, I sent Mary to shop for my groceries...).
4) In reality Sky does not care who or where has them, as their duty to Rights holder is to PUBLICALLY ensure geographic limitation of issue of viewing cards. Once the public duty is done Sky do not care, really.
5) eBay is PUBLIC selling outside geographic area, so Sky would be in breach of their agreement with Rights Providers to not take action.