FORD 3.0 ESSEX Engine won't start , need advice please

andyj22

Hi all having problems with the 3.0 Essex engine not turning over in the Stag. to day i put back the exhaust manifolds , all went fine until i tried to turn over the engine BUT NOTHING . the other week when i was removing the exhaust manifold from the bottom of the Stag , the manifold touched the cable + and made a spark damn. have i blown the started motor ??? when i turn the key i hear nothing at all / there is loads of current at the points at the started motor but just not turning the engine HELP
maybe there is a cut out switch in the Stag somewhere. the fuel pump works all fine and the fuel switch is fine as well. Stag is an AUTOMACTIC . Is there anyway of checking that the started motor is feckd , and how can i start the engine without the starter motor is there anyway of doing this any ideas will be great

Adam
PS: i wonder if the earth strap as been riped off Ummmm

corktina

i'm not a mechanic but mybe these ideas MIGHT help...

It's an auto...is it in P or N? Inhibitor switch would stop it starting I think.

If theres no noise at all when you turn the key, could it be the solenoid duff? probaly not if there is current at the points....it should be clicking though when you turn the key I think.

Earth cable was one of my thoughts too...


I cant see how you could start an auto with out the starter motor....can you borrow another one?

Dades

Have you tried the old trick of giving it a couple of smacks with a small hammer? Seriously I've seen an AA guy do it, and have even done it myself.

Also I've heard of putting the car in 1st and rocking it back and forth can loosen a stuck starter motor. Not sure what you do there with an automatic though...

Good luck!

corktina

The Atheist wrote:

Have you tried the old trick of giving it a couple of smacks with a small hammer? Seriously I've seen an AA guy do it, and have even done it myself.

Also I've heard of putting the car in 1st and rocking it back and forth can loosen a stuck starter motor. Not sure what you do there with an automatic though...

Good luck!

rocking wont work on an auto I think, but a spanner on the nut on the pulley might turn it a little and free off a jammed starter perhaps...

the hammer trick might work(it's the starter motor you hit.....:)

Dades

corktina wrote:

the hammer trick might work(it's the starter motor you hit.....:)

Oh yeah - I meant hit the starter motor not just the car!

andyj22

HI ALL

I was away working on the Stag today and found that the earth strap was broken so i made another and put it in place . Great it worked the engine now turns over no problem , the only thing now is that it don't fire up. i have checked the coil and the HT lead and NO spark going though the HT lead . Ummm how can i bypass the Coil as so i can just get the engine started as now the battery is going flat. is there a way of checking that the coil is a thought.

Any other thoughts on places to look would be greatly appreciated.

Adam

Lyre61

If it is an auto make sure it is in park and that the wire from the auto box is connected so that it allows the engine to fire. Easy to miss. Disconnected the wire on the sm by accident took me 30 mins to cop on what I had done.

macplaxton

Also, if the auto starter inhibitor switch is out of adjustment, it won't start in P or N either...but some other nearby gear.

MercMad

The inhibitor switch will prevent the starter, and hence the engine, from turning. If you starter IS turning then I doubt very much this is your problem !

You cannot byepass the coil to get it running, but you CAN run a 12v+ wire direct from the battery to the coil, therefore ruling out a duff ignition swith or bad wiring.

Have you a phase tester ?

You said in the first post that you had loads of cuurent at the points, I assume you mean you have good voltage there. Do you still have a spark at the points ?

You then say in your last post that you have no spark at the HT lead ?

Check for voltage at the coil, then check the wiring to the points, ensure you have not earthed the points, ensure you have a gap, that your rotor and cap are good !

If your battery voltage is now very low it may not be enough to start it, so get jump leads ! Some fuel pumps will not run unless the have close to 12 V !

Good luck !

andyj22

MercMad wrote:

The inhibitor switch will prevent the starter, and hence the engine, from turning. If you starter IS turning then I doubt very much this is your problem !

You cannot byepass the coil to get it running, but you CAN run a 12v+ wire direct from the battery to the coil, therefore ruling out a duff ignition swith or bad wiring.

Have you a phase tester ?

You said in the first post that you had loads of cuurent at the points, I assume you mean you have good voltage there. Do you still have a spark at the points ?

You then say in your last post that you have no spark at the HT lead ?

Check for voltage at the coil, then check the wiring to the points, ensure you have not earthed the points, ensure you have a gap, that your rotor and cap are good !

If your battery voltage is now very low it may not be enough to start it, so get jump leads ! Some fuel pumps will not run unless the have close to 12 V !

Good luck !

electronic ignition

put new coil on today , and gess what A BIG NOTHING NO-spark i have check everything . I'm confused

Adam

mustang68

This isn't rocket science, so do this, draw out your system on paper, mark all the wires and start having a look with a voltmeter:

so you have the engine turning but no spark, your spark comes from

battery (lets leave the alt out for the moment) -> electronic ignition -> coil - Leads -> plugs

Work backwards, you have no spark at the plugs, leads or coming off the coil. So the HT side is dead, as you replaced the coil, we'll assume that the HT side would work if it had power. (that is that there is no spark coming off the coil at all...correct?)

Now lets go the other way:

1) is your battery in good condition, charged? Jump the battery from another car and try again (in the mustang if the battery has been left for a while, she'll turn over, but not start, a jump gets her every time)

2) Is the electronic ignition getting power, no fuses gone? stuck open? if you turn the engine by hand so that the EI will fire (there may be a little light on it) do you get power out of the EI?

MercMad

You need to ensure 12 volts at the coil before you dig any further. It sounds .like you have an aftermarket electronic ignition ?

Was this car running before hand and what have you changed since then ?

It's possible you blew something by trying to start with an incorrect earth, but i would check the coil voltage before buying any new parts !

stifz

great engine!

I have one in a speed boat and it goes like the clappers!! Hope it all works out!

Ballykine43

Adam
I have emailed you a copy of the Luminition documentation.
Good Luck
Brian

andyj22

Ballykine43 wrote:

Adam
I have emailed you a copy of the Luminition documentation.
Good Luck
Brian

Brian your a star will let you know how i get on with it on Saturday as i have a new coil and HT lead to go in . but i will have a read on this info you sent to me.

Adam

andyj22

Hi all

Yet again have been on the Stag 2 hours trying to work out what is the problem as why i am not getting any spark from the ht LEAD. Today i put a bran new coil as well as a new HT lead . She just turns over and over not firing up at all . got a tester and it shows that there is power going to the coil and have checked any loose wires around but i cant find any faults . HELP

Adam

mustang68

As this is now according to you the third coil in the car I think it would be safe to say that the coil isn't the issue.

You have voltage at the low side of the coil, but no spark on the high side but the coil works.

The only thing it could be, based on the information you have provided is: there is not enough power being delivered to the coil. You may have the voltage, but not the current.

Did you try jump starting the car from another running car, or replacing the battery??

Is your HT lead from the coil broken?

andyj22

mustang68 wrote:

As this is now according to you the third coil in the car I think it would be safe to say that the coil isn't the issue.

You have voltage at the low side of the coil, but no spark on the high side but the coil works.

The only thing it could be, based on the information you have provided is: there is not enough power being delivered to the coil. You may have the voltage, but not the current.

Did you try jump starting the car from another running car, or replacing the battery??

Is your HT lead from the coil broken?

Hi

I Have fully charged the battery and still nothing no spark have a look at the small video clip below ' I Have also put a new HT lead on. i now give up

Adam:(

http://s40.photobucket.com/albums/e223/callum01/?action=view&current=Picture388-1.flv

Ballykine43

Adam

Have you tried the tests on the Luminition sheet I sent you. The first two are simple and easy. And remember you wont be able to see the light beam as it is infra red. If they don't work its either an auto electrician or back to standard points and condenser.
If they do work then you are looking at the distribution of current. HT lead from coil, into distributor cap, down through sprung carbon contact, into rotor arm, to pickup point on distributor cap and onwards to plugs in turn.

I can't remember whether you already tried replacing the distributor cap and the rotor arm.

Otherwise I think its time to bite the bullet and get someone to look at it.

Brian

mustang68

Edit: Earlier stupidness removed!!

andyj22

Ballykine43 wrote:

Adam

Have you tried the tests on the Luminition sheet I sent you. The first two are simple and easy. And remember you wont be able to see the light beam as it is infra red. If they don't work its either an auto electrician or back to standard points and condenser.
If they do work then you are looking at the distribution of current. HT lead from coil, into distributor cap, down through sprung carbon contact, into rotor arm, to pickup point on distributor cap and onwards to plugs in turn.

I can't remember whether you already tried replacing the distributor cap and the rotor arm.

Otherwise I think its time to bite the bullet and get someone to look at it.

Brian

Hi Brian . Stag of to the doctors to a local garage to sort it out . today i discovered that the electric windows are not working i wonder if this will cause the engine not to fire up maybe a relay has gone...

Adam

Please have a look at small video clip

http://s40.photobucket.com/albums/e223/callum01/?action=view&current=Picture401.flv

Ballykine43

Heard the car ambulance was seen at your place today. Hope it gets home soon without major surgery.
Meanwhile we will miss it. Keep us informed.
Brian

andyj22

Ballykine43 wrote:

Heard the car ambulance was seen at your place today. Hope it gets home soon without major surgery.
Meanwhile we will miss it. Keep us informed.
Brian

Thanks Brian

garage will inform me tomm , said it will be up and running by friday so quick . i am keeping my fingers crossed

ADz

mustang68

No no no!! I was right earlier

You put a grounded tester light to the + terminal of the coil and you get the light on (12v across the light).

Then you touch it to the negative or grounded side of the coil and the light lights up, thats very wrong indeed!! That means you have +12v on the ground side of the coil, thats your problem.

Maybe your earths are fried, or the electronic ignition is toast, try grounding the other side of the coil and see if it tries to start (may not, maybe the coil is switched from the ground side).

MercMad

Yes I watched your video clip, you should not have a lit test light from that side of the coil.

You should have 12V positive on one side, then the other side should make/break as the engine is turned over. Traditionally this would be the side with the wire leading to the points which are there to make and break the circuit, when the circuit is broken a current is induced into the coil, this is multiplied inside the coil windings and hence the HT lead recieves a larger current.

You seem to have a constant live on this side, maybe whatever triggers the unit inside the distributor is not triggereing, or the coil is fried and now has a direct internal short circuit !