Car problem and insurance breakdown question

fluppet

I have two questions:

1. I have a diesel Ford Mondeo. I filled it up with diesel tonight - it was half-full already. Shortly after leaving the petrol(diesel) station the car started behaving strangely - the revs per sec kept going up and down, the accelerator peddle was also vibrating, the engine was making revving noises and the car was jerking. I stopped, turned-off the car and waited for a few minutes hoping it would fix itself.

I started again but it was the same, so I found a safe car space and parked. I was sure I had put diesel and not petrol into it, but I walked back to the station (about a kilometer away) just to verify. After looking at the pump layout I am positive that it was diesel that I put into it.

I decided to try revving the engine with the gear in neutral. I could get up to quite high revs (about half-way) and then the rev meter would start shaking and the previously mentioned symptoms (accelerator pedal vibrating, car shaking, engine making strange noises) started again. The car wasn't too bad a low speeds (~10kmph) so I decided to try driving home slowly.

I got worse as I crawled along, and eventually even at 10kmph it was shuddering. I think it might have been worse when I was going-up hills. After about a kilometer or two it got really bad - in first gear the car was just jolting along the road - it would lurch forward and then stop and then lurch forward again. I stopped, turned-off the car and went to see if there was a space on any of the side roads. Luckily there was a small side-road a few meters in front of the car and there was a space just past the double-yellow lines after the corner. I tried starting the car, but it was difficult (it always starts straight away, so this was very unusual). Once I finally got it going I managed to lurch around the corner, but then it cut-out. I didn't want to risk trying to start it again, so I just pushed the car into the space and left it. Luckily I was only about half a kilometer from home.

So, my question is obviously do you have any ideas about what the problem might be? My thoughts are:

a) Even thought I am practically certain it was diesel, I accidently put petrol into it
b) There was something wrong with the diesel
c) There was petrol in the diesel pump
d) Something wrong with the fuel injector on the car
e) Something wrong with the accelerator

I would really appreciate any suggestions that you have.

2. My second question is regarding car insurance. I have comprehensive car insurance with Hibernian with several optional extras such as Breakdown Assist. Should I ask them to send out a repairer to try to fix it, or should I just ask them to tow it to a repair garage? Would any of this affect my No Claims Bonus?

Thank you very much

maidhc

Perhaps there was water in the diesel? It seem like a coincidence.

What year is the mondeo? Did the glowplug light come on at any stage?

Hibernian won't fix your car. The most they will do is tow it to a garage. It won't affect your NCB.

fluppet

Thanks for your reply.

It's a 02 Zetec. No warning lights displayed.

How likely is it that there would be water in the diesel of a very well-known company? If this was the cause (or if it was something else to do with the diesel), do you think it would be worth seeking compensation from the company for the repair costs?

You were right about Hibernian covering the towing charges without affecting my NCB. It's gone to the garage now, so we'll see what they say.

Trampas

fluppet wrote:

2. My second question is regarding car insurance. I have comprehensive car insurance with Hibernian with several optional extras such as Breakdown Assist. Should I ask them to send out a repairer to try to fix it, or should I just ask them to tow it to a repair garage? Would any of this affect my No Claims Bonus?

Slight off topic but it shouldn't be an optional as the company I work for it comes free with full comp and it wont effect your NCB.

All they will do is tow it to a garage unless they can fix it there and then.

Armadillo

Very good forum at www.fordmondeo.org . They may have a few ideas.

natnif

Hi, Hibernian will send out a mechanic who will work on the car for an hr.If at that stage he cannot get it running they can tow it to a garage for you.does not affect NCB and will not cost you anything. At the moment this is your best bet I would say

As for the station having water in the diesel it is very unlikely. An ullage report is printed after each delivery and there should be a water content for each tank on it. if you want to could try calling them and checking.

Again, diesel in the petrol tank in the station is extremely unlikely. The driver is responsible for this most of the time and it should have been spotted.

If you are sure you did put diesel in it could be any number of things, but it sounds to be honest like you put petrol in

fluppet

Okay, well the garage has a preliminary verdict on what the problem is - they say it seems to be a problem with a fuel injector. Apparently they will have to replace all four fuel injectors as it is not possible to fix it, or replace just one of them. They cost Eur 400 each, so the total cost of the repair will be over Eur 2,000. I must admit I am shocked and very disappointed. The car is only 4.5 years old and I have always treated it with the utmost care. I've also had problems with the power steering fluid leaking (luckily that occurred during the warranty) and there is something wrong with the windscreen washer too - you have to keep repeatedly pressing it for several seconds before any fluid comes out.

I must apologise for my ignorance regarding car insurance, but is there any possibility that my insurance would cover the cost of the repair of the fuel injector?

Thanks

maidhc

fluppet wrote:

Okay, well the garage has a preliminary verdict on what the problem is - they say it seems to be a problem with a fuel injector. Apparently they will have to replace all four fuel injectors as it is not possible to fix it, or replace just one of them.

It is possible to replace them individually. There is a piece of kit available to test them (costs about €1k).

Delphi (who make injectors for ford) were supposed to have a solution published for reconditioning their injectors by late last year. These may not be availabe yet though, but should be half price if they are.

Injectors generally do not fail unless someone caused it to happen: e.g. trying to fuel the car with petrol, water, or biodiesel.

I'd suggest you get a second opinion from a diesel specialist, and get an analysis done on the fuel in the tank to see if you can get money from the filling station (assuming you still have a receipt, and assuming the car isn't full of petrol).

Alun

Just a thought, if you still have the receipt from the petrol station, won't it state on it what you put in, diesel or petrol? At least then you can eliminate that doubt from the equation.

fluppet

The repair garage has confirmed that it is diesel in the tank, so that is not the problem. It looks like it was just a coincidence that the problem happened after filling-up.

fluppet

The repair garage has said that they can replace it with reconditioned injectors for Eur 250 each (+ labour), but I think I'd prefer new ones. What I really want is my car back as soon as possible as I need it for a driving test this day next week.

Fey!

Might be worth your while to get a quote from a main dealer. If they can test the injectors, it may end up being replace 1 instead of 4.

Just my 2c.

Good luck with it.

fluppet

Sorry, forgot to mention that it is at a main dealer... so you think they should only have to replace one of the injectors... Hmm, I must query them about this.

fluppet

I've been in contact with a diesel repair specialist and he says that he can understand why the dealer would want to replace all four fuel injectors. He said if it was a TD engine then just replacing the fuel injector pump should be enogh, but for a TDCi engine (which I believe mine is - 2.0 litre turbocharged Zetec, I think 115PS) then apparently it would be understandable, for some reason.

fluppet

I actually have come to believe my engine is actually a TDDI, so I don't know what the dealer was talking about. But he doesn't think it's the fuel injectors anymore. He is going to drain the fuel system and try putting some new fuel into it.

maidhc

fluppet wrote:

I actually have come to believe my engine is actually a TDDI, so I don't know what the dealer was talking about. But he doesn't think it's the fuel injectors anymore. He is going to drain the fuel system and try putting some new fuel into it.

The dealer sounds like they don't know what they are talking about.

Not particularly surprising for a Ford dealer though!

Mr.Diagnostic

Hi,

If it is a TDCi then the injectors can be replaced one at a time. Reconditioned are available and cheaper.
Sometimes the ECU can lose the injector coding but can be recoded. The symptoms you posted sound a bit like that but normally there is a code logged and I would be surprised if the dealer could not diagnose that.
Maybe the dealer is having staff problems.

fluppet

I finally have a definitive diagnosis from the dealer. He says that it is a problem with the fuel pump. He is going to replace it at a total cost of Eur 1,100 (incl. labour).