saab9-3, honda accord, Passat or honda civic hybrid?

frank_bascombe

hi all

I'm changing my car and have around €30000 to spend. I'm not really into cars but with a new baby and travelling high mileage I'm looking for a safe, reliable diesel (or hybrid).

So far I've looked at the following:

new 07 Passat, 1.9tdi 105bhp

06 Saab 1.9TID Vector, 150bhp, high spec, alloys, 7000miles (buying in north)

05 honda Accord 2.2, 22000miles

I'm also considering the honda civic hybrid.

I would be grateful to anyone for advice on which model I should go for - I'm looking for reliability, safety and running costs (fuel economy, servicing, parts, if necessary).

I have had mixed reviews on all three and I wondering what the experience of owners / car enthusiasts has been.

thanks in advance,

Frank

CarLover

Very simple answer. The Accord...hands down.

Reason:

New Passat is overrated...and the 105BHP is underpowered in my opinion.

The Saab, whilst nice enough and a good engine will cost you too much. Servicing is horrendous. Also difficult enough cars to shift I've heard. Only Saab dealers seem to want them.

The Prius is just disgusting. I'll leave it at that.

The Accord is a great car. Well built...low cost. Great performance. luxury feel...try and get leather. Good residuals on Honda.

comanche

CarLover wrote:

Very simple answer. The Accord...hands down.

Reason:

New Passat is overrated...and the 105BHP is underpowered in my opinion.

The Saab, whilst nice enough and a good engine will cost you too much. Servicing is horrendous. Also difficult enough cars to shift I've heard. Only Saab dealers seem to want them.

The Prius is just disgusting. I'll leave it at that.

The Accord is a great car. Well built...low cost. Great performance. luxury feel...try and get leather. Good residuals on Honda.

perhaps you should throw the madza 6 into the mix there - great value for money.

CarLover

comanche wrote:

perhaps you should throw the madza 6 into the mix there - great value for money.

Yep...Mazda 6 is also a winner over all of the above. Accord or 6 would be great choices to go for.

Stephen

Honda Accord 2.2 iCTDI. Great engine, very smooth with lots of power.

jayok

Accord 2.2 CTDi. Safe (5 stars), economical (50+ MPG) and well spec'd (if Irish model it will be the Executive), 20km service intervals (about €250 a go) and if it's an 05 there's at least a years manufactuers warranty left

Also will be in demand (as is diesel) when it comes to sell.

pburns

Consensus amongst a lot of motoring journos is that hybrids are overrated in terms of economy unless you are doing a lot of stop-start driving where they start to earn their keep.

Both the Mazda 6 & Accord are nearing the end of their production run but either would be a good bet. A '05 Mazda would be a pretty astute buy IMO.

Saab sounds tempting, the 1.9TID has a good reputation (if you're not biased about it's FIAT heritage). I wouldn't discount it so readily if the deal is right. Saabs do very well in real-world crash/survival stastics as far as I remember...

Volvoboy

cant recomend the accord enough, we have one at the moment, lovey driver and pleanty of poke.




-VB-

JHMEG

My better half has an 03 Civic IMA. On a long run I can get over 70mpg, sometimes as high as 74mpg. That's with driving it the right way.

Don't see how the new one wouldn't be better. CVT is standard, and the hybrid stuff has been advanced another iteration.

Accord is a bigger car tho.

embraer170

74mpg?!!

Guy:Incognito

That seems awfull high. the highest on any model of the current gen according to Honda is around 54mpg.

ninty9er

This comes with a 5 Star NCAP 9 Airbags and the engine Lexus now have planted in the IS220. Lexus having sworn that no diesel would sit in one of it's engione bays until it had perfected the technology
Avensis 2.2

Probably a bit older than what you're looking for but the seats are wipeable and I'm sure that 17k is negotiable
Omega Diesel

2.1 merc diesel engine????

bazz26

ninty9er wrote:

Probably a bit older than what you're looking for but the seats are wipeable and I'm sure that 17k is negotiable
Omega Diesel

2.1 merc diesel engine????

Nope. That is a 2.2 GM/Isuzu sourced engine in the Omega. The old 2.5 turbo diesel unit in the mid 1990s Omega was a BMW unit.

frank_bascombe

Hi all

thank you for your replies - plenty of food for thought and I hadn't considered the Mazda 6.

just to answer some of your questions,

the Saab is €32500 for July 06, 7000miles,

the Accord is €31000 for Oct 05 (both cars from the North)

and the advice most friends are telling me is go for the Passat at around the same price and have the comfort of a brand new car.

My heart says the Saab as I like the car but my head tells me not to go near it due to depreciation and running costs. Head is also saying the Passat is good bet for re-sale and all that.

I just don't know

bazz26

frank_bascombe wrote:

Hi all

thank you for your replies - plenty of food for thought and I hadn't considered the Mazda 6.

just to answer some of your questions,

the Saab is €32500 for July 06, 7000miles,

the Accord is €31000 for Oct 05 (both cars from the North)

and the advice most friends are telling me is go for the Passat at around the same price and have the comfort of a brand new car.

My heart says the Saab as I like the car but my head tells me not to go near it due to depreciation and running costs. Head is also saying the Passat is good bet for re-sale and all that.

I just don't know

On your budget you will be buying a very basic model Passat. That 1.9 TDi engine was a good engine in it's day but it's day has now passed. The other diesel cars you suggested are far superior to the VAG 1.9 TDi these days. So you really have to decide if having a 07 number plate really worth sacreficing better comfort and refinement.

P.S. The 9-3 and Accord in the North are overpriced compared to some prices down here:
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=574524
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=496791
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=574946
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=503403

The only reason I would buy in the North is to save money over similar cars down here which is not the case above.

JHMEG

Stekelly wrote:

That seems awfull high. the highest on any model of the current gen according to Honda is around 54mpg.

That's not according to Honda, that's according to the EU. All cars go through a standard economy test. The test suits some cars better than others.

The Civic IMA/Hybrid encourages you to drive the right way by telling you how good or bad you're doing, constantly! You soon learn how to drive it in the most effecient way. The enigne off when coasting/stopped helps too. I typically get slight over 70mpg on a long run, and ~52mpg around town.

Here's a (blurry) pic I took when I was driving it back from Rosslare before I really knew how to drive it right (68.1mpg on a 103.9 mile journey):

embraer170

How accurate is it really? My car routinely tells me I'm getting 40mpg while if I do a pump based calculation I get roughly 30mpg.

unkel

JHMEG wrote:

Here's a (blurry) pic I took

Most cars can get great fuel economy if you manage to drive in 5th gear doing a constant 55 km/h...

embraer170 wrote:

How accurate is it really? My car routinely tells me I'm getting 40mpg while if I do a pump based calculation I get roughly 30mpg.

Obviously your car's computer is telling porkies

My car's computer is remarkably accurate in reporting fuel used. It is not though in stating how much further I can go without a refill

JHMEG

Unkel is half right: most cars do their best at 55 MPH (not km/h) in 5th, and the Civic IMA is no different. But the real question is: how many cars get 70mpg... ever!

I did the full tank/empty tank caluclation once, and found the trip computer to be telling the truth and haven't questioned it since. 700 odd miles on 45 litres isn't bad....

unkel

JHMEG wrote:

Unkel is half right: most cars do their best at 55 MPH (not km/h) in 5th

We're both half right then by your logic

I was referring to your pic where you're doing about 55km/h. But I agree with you that doing about 90km/h constantly in highest gear is about the most efficient you can get a car engine to work

JHMEG

Well I was actually slowing down to stop at lights when I took the picture.

Jeez I didn't drive all that way at 55km/h!

lafors

If you are looking at an accord why not look at the new civic saloon, not the hybrid.

The 1.8 s-es is under 30k, its got about all the extras you'd need, as standard, and very comfortable to drive, decent performance.

I've had mine for 6 months now and wouldn't swap it.

jayok

The problem here is that the OP is deciding between the Accord and Civic Hybrid (amongst others). You cannot really compare like with like here.

Yes, the Civic IMA is more fuel efficient, but it is a smaller and lighter car than the Accord with less power, torque, etc. If you want to munch miles on a motorway then an Accord diesel is the way to do it. Driven sensibly it can deliver 61 MPG (according to Honda).

However, if you are a city bound commuter then the IMA is the way to go. Starting, stopping, idling, braking, etc are all handled more efficiently by the Civic IMA than the Accord diesel.

While the IMA technology is a step in the right direction and as JHMEG shows it can deliver impressive MPG, there a bit of fiddling to get it right and is not for everyone (i.e. who don't have patience). For your more average driver, the Accord Diesel is the way to go.

Finally, as for the 1.8 Civic saloon, the Accord diesel is still more powerful, torquey and efficient. Indeed the Civic diesel is more efficient than the Accor but alas that evil acronym - VRT - ensures that they are not available here.

Buy an Accord Diesel...

Barr

I'd have the Saab , definately the best looking of the bunch imo.

also 150 bhp from a 1.9 diesel is plenty of power in anyones book

sk8board

Barr wrote:

I'd have the Saab , definately the best looking of the bunch imo.

also 150 bhp from a 1.9 diesel is plenty of power in anyones book

me too. Great engine, miles better than the 2.2 it replaced.

Friend has the 1.9 105bhp new model Passat and HATES it (company car, replaced a brilliant diesel Mazda 6). Its so sluggish you wouldn't believe. We were on the M1 one night, and he gave it the beans to show how slowly it travelled from 60-70mph. Hard to believe it. No better than the old '97 passat did.
Go for the 2.0L 140bhp if choosing the Passat.

JHMEG

jayok wrote:

While the IMA technology is a step in the right direction and as JHMEG shows it can deliver impressive MPG, there a bit of fiddling to get it right and is not for everyone (i.e. who don't have patience).

Ah but Jayok that argument is by and large not relevant here. The OP is talking about the new Civic Hybrid (not the older IMA I was on about) which ONLY comes with a CVT (stepless automatic) transmission, taking a lot of the fuss out of driving for the best economy.

Borzoi

frank_bascombe wrote:

new 07 Passat, 1.9tdi 105bhp

06 Saab 1.9TID Vector, 150bhp, high spec, alloys, 7000miles (buying in north)

05 honda Accord 2.2, 22000miles

I'm also considering the honda civic hybrid.

Was in similar situatiuon last March - bought the Saab

IMO the Passat, is over priced & over rated, with poor dealer service (and a 12 week lead time). I was buying new, so the Diesel Accord was only available in 'Exec' so was outside my budget. Got a 120BH Linear 93 for €35,500 spanking new. Very comfortable to drive, economical, lively enough for over taking - and I'm used to 2.0T petrol!

No regrets after 30,000km. Residuals weren't a factor for me - but any high mileage car is worth damn all after 3 years!

Biro

I was a saab fan, especially the 93 until 2 weeks ago when I drove one... the interior is so disappointing and plasticy, and the quality of the switch gear is woeful. Really very disappointing altogether. Very hard to justify a Saab 93 over the Alfa 159 these days, which has the same 2 diesel engines (as it comes from the Fiat camp anyway), and is better built now-a-days than a lot of newer cars, let alone alfas!
The Passat isn't that over priced or over rated, if you say that then whats the A4, which is nearly a 10 grand premium for a smaller car?!

sk8board

Biro wrote:

I was a saab fan, especially the 93 until 2 weeks ago when I drove one... the interior is so disappointing and plasticy, and the quality of the switch gear is woeful. Really very disappointing altogether.

although I really like the 9-3, I'd have to agree. However, the big excetion is the Vector which is a fantastic Spec, and has an excellent interior.

I've never really understood why Saab have the Linear, Arc (now obsolete), and Sport models so closely aligned, and then the Vector model a million miles better.
This is reflected in the 2nd hand market. The Vector models are easy to sell on.

frank_bascombe

Hi all

OP here and thank you all for your replies - very helpful for someone like myself.
I have to agree with sk8board - the vector has a fantastic interior and spec, and is a much more comfortable drive that the 1.9 TDi Passat, in my humble opinion.

my only reservations are with

1) It's reliability - will it give me problems, more problems than the Passat?

2) Costs to service -my VW friends keep telling me it will cost a fortune to service and to get parts, etc - are they right?

Other than that I really love the car!

PaddyFagan

frank_bascombe wrote:

2) Costs to service -my VW friends keep telling me it will cost a fortune to service and to get parts, etc - are they right?

I don't know - but you can find out, play dumb ring a Saab dealer and tell them you have the 93 and it's due a service, how much will that be and when can you fit me in... Do the same with a VW dealer telling them you have a passat. It isn't going to be conclusive I know, but it might help with clarify if there is a huge difference.

Paddy