Religous Russia

stevejazzx

Just back from Moscow. New year celebrations just ending over there. Uncle frost and Snegouricha brought me a bottle of Old Suntory whiskey. How very cosmopolitan of them I thought.

Anyways we were sitting around eating some 'pilmeni' (dumplings) when suddenly the converstion turned to religon. My wife told me that one day she arrived in school to find the curriculum completely changed. The teacher turned up looking rather baffled and said:

"Lenin is an eejit and emmm whaddya call him.........? oh yeah...God...well he exixts after all..anyways back to Peter the 1st"

Loads of Russians it transpires are now madly religous. Almost overnight. My wifes mother (A history teacher) believes in God now, and was a bit worried to learn of my atheism. My wife is also an Athiest, My wifes Father is agnostic leaning toward Atheism. The mother had pictures of deities on her wall and actually admits to having a belief in God based on fear of what will happen to her in the afterlight.

The conversation turned to baptism and the idea that is vogue to adopt certain religous conduct into ones life to affirm ones social and moral nature. Valentina (my wifes mother) described it is as a kind of club that started in the mid nineties when communism has sunken to the depts of the balck sea. Her friends agreed that having a child baptised was a social obligation on behalf of any parent in order to ensure an easier transition for that child in later social contexts.
This got me thinking about the role of religon in modern Irsih society.
Certainly most of the religous ceremonies performed here, baptism, confirmation and communion are played out not as religous ceremonies but as social occasions. The affair is almost certainly a social obligation and any families/childern not taking part are regarded suspiciously by the ceremonious who collect money and go drinking.

I asked 'what people did when there no religon in Russia'? Some people, particulary old people used to sneak off to churches in country. Although lot of churches were destroyed during the twentieth century and Atheism was encouraged some people used to still worship deities of one or another. Most of the people though remained fairly unreligous and maintained normal enough lives without religon. Obviously there was great economic hardship during communism and people were depressed undernourished and generally unsatisfied with all aspects of life but the answer I was getting regarding religon was that it wasn't missed and certainly didn't disrupt the flow of moralistic behaviour of everyday Russians. It also didn't appear to offer much hope to the realists of that time, they had much more concrete solutions in mind. The whole affair left me wondering if the introduction of relgion back into russia is logical at all. Certainly for wifes mother, an extremely intelligent woman with an encylopaedic knowledge of world history, the answer was no...in her words 'it has unleashed in me a very odd process by which I am accepting logical inconsistencies mainly due to a fear of being wrong and the pressure of new social conventions which epouse the idea of just being a believer'.
Wow. Religon really is the opium of the people.

joe_chicken

stevejazzx wrote:

Wow. Religon really is the opium of the people.

I for one don't wanna be around when they go cold turkey!

UU

Здравстуйте!

Yeah, that was a very interesting post from the OP, thanks for that.

In fact I'm studying Russian and French in Trinity and I have to learn about Russian society in my course and even have to spend time in Russia for third year. But Russia isn't the only country in a similiar situation, likewise is Poland as we are quite aware of. But I think the forceful nature of state atheism during the communist period is certainly a huge factor which has caused especially many of the older generations to become more religious. In this way, the so called "Seperation od church and state" in america was what provided breeding ground for such an extreme rise of religiosity unlike much of Europe - Sweden, Norway, Finland are a good examples of gradual moves from Church involvement in the state to secularism.

Although, I think Russia will get on its feet in the future and once its economy gradually improves so too will the religiousness of the people like Ireland for example. Once upon a time not very long ago, Ireland was an extremelly religious country and now we are moving towards secularism due to an increased stardard of living and rights.

I'll be going to Petrozavodsk up in the Karelian Republic in Russia in Septemeber which will be facinating.

До свидания!!!

robindch

> Loads of Russians it transpires are now madly religous. Almost overnight.

Yes, it's a strange and unsettling development and, as UU points out, not only affecting Russia, but many countries in the FSU. My own understanding is that the communist party with its hero-worship of the dead Lenin, rote-learning and studying of the dead man's "teachings" and the general religious shape of state communism was (perhaps inadvertently, perhaps not) intended to act as a drop-in replacement for religious tendencies in the sizable portion of any population who are susceptible to such things. With the departure of state-communism and the arrival of the current administration's bandit capitalism, these people are casting about looking for something to believe in, and the old religion, and a few new ones, fit the bill quite nicely.

What's worrying is the number of evangelical outfits which are attempting to become established in the region with their far more aggressive religious memes, and the population has not yet developed any immunity to them. I've seen it in Ukraine most of all, where many groups of American evangelicals are operating, and, as far as I can make out, basically dispensing cash to schools, setting up churches, and doing the run of orphanages finding ones where their ideas and their money will be accepted. The Mormons and various Nigerian editions of christianity are spreading in Ukraine too, to the intense irritation of the local Orthodox church which, I believe, is petitioning parliament to have the opposition banned.

BTW, next time you're there, ask about the old believers and the new believers -- there was a mild reformation of types back in the early 18th century under Peter the Great which attempted to bring the Orthodox church more in line with the state. This resulted in a mini-schism which persists to this day. The two groups can be distinguished by the way they bless themselves: one group does it, AFAIR, with three fingers joined, while the other group does it with two (or maybe, it's the other way around).

Things are rarely dull in Russia

stevejazzx

UU wrote:

Здравстуйте!

Yeah, that was a very interesting post from the OP, thanks for that.


But Russia isn't the only country in a similiar situation, likewise is Poland as we are quite aware of. But I think the forceful nature of state atheism during the communist period is certainly a huge factor which has caused especially many of the older generations to become more religious. In this way, the so called "Seperation od church and state" in america was what provided breeding ground for such an extreme rise of religiosity unlike much of Europe - Sweden, Norway, Finland are a good examples of gradual moves from Church involvement in the state to secularism.

I wouldn't be surprised to see religon really take off there and become part of their social and moral code. Putin (almost certainly an atheist) was on TV over christmas at some big church in Moscow talking to the Patriacrh during a New years cermenony. Apparently the church was asking for 60 million american dollars(they tend to qutoe everything in Russia in either dollars or euros) from the Russian government for refurbishment. It was granted. And many more are being granted.
So obviously the curernt administration has no probelm encouraging futher religous integration.

uu wrote:

Although, I think Russia will get on its feet in the future and once its economy gradually improves so too will the religiousness of the people like Ireland for example. Once upon a time not very long ago, Ireland was an extremelly religious country and now we are moving towards secularism due to an increased stardard of living and rights.

Russia and Ireland couldn't be more different in terms of the way people treat cultural and moral institutions. In Ireland it's fine to be nonchalant around serious issues like religon and politics, in Russia people treat these thing much more seriously. In fact the average Russian is quite a serious person with much less ingrained idea of general freedoms than westerners have. So I would argue that religon there if taken up would be treated far more seriously and that might lead to (I don't want to sound dramatic here) but it could lead to something resembling fundementalist atttidues. Even in my wifes home where the general atmosphere is very relaxed, alomst Irish, the subject of religon caused quite a stir, the subject itself was given in Dwakins words an 'undeserved respect' in that you really had to tiptoe around the issues in fear of offending someone. This immediate reverence that religon recieves is one the factors I think which causes the fundamentalist mindset and Russia is exactly the kind of that might afford immediate reverence for religon.

uu wrote:

I'll be going to Petrozavodsk up in the Karelian Republic in Russia in Septemeber which will be facinating.

Sounds interesting indeed. It'll be an eye openeing experience. As robin says things are rarely dull in Russia.

До свидания!!! [/quote]

stevejazzx

robindch wrote:

> Loads of Russians it transpires are now madly religous. Almost overnight.


What's worrying is the number of evangelical outfits which are attempting to become established in the region with their far more aggressive religious memes, and the population has not yet developed any immunity to them. I've seen it in Ukraine most of all, where many groups of American evangelicals are operating, and, as far as I can make out, basically dispensing cash to schools, setting up churches, and doing the run of orphanages finding ones where their ideas and their money will be accepted. The Mormons and various Nigerian editions of christianity are spreading in Ukraine too, to the intense irritation of the local Orthodox church which, I believe, is petitioning parliament to have the opposition banned.

Wow. It's really hard to see religous integration into these ex communist nations as anything but the mass manipulation of cultures for either profit or power. I couldn't believe it when I saw Putin going aroung churches on tv encouraging the love of God to the Russian people.

robindch wrote:

Things are rarely dull in Russia