stopped friday night

amoKey

was stopped by an unmarked car friday night for alleged careless driving. whenn asked for my license I showed it to the guy but it is a little worsde for wear. he said it was not acceptible and I'd have to produce a new one with insurance etc at a station in 10 days. he aslo said he si summonsing me.

the incedent was something liek this

I dropped a gear when a pedestrian walked out infronty of me, dropped the clutch and hit the break. my foot caught the gas when i hit teh break so with dropping the gear and the foot partially on the gas more power went to the engine so when i came off the clutch the car shot forward. he said I had reved at the pedestrian. I do accept the car shooting forward could be classed as reckless but I wasn't intentional driving recklessly or carelessly. it was more due to corcumstance.

I again accept the producer my license is in bits and I was told before to replace it but forgot about it.

my first question is If my license needs to be replaced, I'm gonna assume it will take more than 10 days to come back out to me so how can i produce in 10 days? I was thinking of taking all the paper work to the station in question have them sign the documentation for replacement and ask can i come back with the new license.

my second is the summons is this just the production of documentation or an actual court appearance?

also is it relevant that he failed to say why he stopped me until after he said he was giving me the summons. he had the gall to say if i had admitted my offence he would have let me off but is now going to summons me with careless driving when again i aske him what the problem was and why I was stopped. he never actually offered me an oppertunity to say what I had done or exlplain my actions etc. and is it relevant that he never formally identified himself as a garda? ok the flashing blue lights kinda gave it away but he was in plain cloths but I had to ask him 3 times to identify himself as a garda to me and what staion he was assigned to and he tole me i was just making the matter worse but i insisted he identify himself.

seamus

amoKey wrote:

the incedent was something liek this

I dropped a gear when a pedestrian walked out infronty of me, dropped the clutch and hit the break. my foot caught the gas when i hit teh break so with dropping the gear and the foot partially on the gas more power went to the engine so when i came off the clutch the car shot forward. he said I had reved at the pedestrian. I do accept the car shooting forward could be classed as reckless but I wasn't intentional driving recklessly or carelessly. it was more due to corcumstance.

In fairness, this has happened to me before, but it generally only happens if I'm going a little too fast or not paying attention. Either of which would be a valid reason for the Garda to stop you and charge you with careless driving.

I again accept the producer my license is in bits and I was told before to replace it but forgot about it.

Well, that's your own issue really. You can't complain about that one.

my first question is If my license needs to be replaced, I'm gonna assume it will take more than 10 days to come back out to me so how can i produce in 10 days?

If you go into the motor tax office, they can print you a new one on the spot. You'll have to take the day off though to ensure you have the whole day to wait.

my second is the summons is this just the production of documentation or an actual court appearance?

A summons is a summons to appear in court to answer the charges.

also is it relevant that he failed to say why he stopped me until after he said he was giving me the summons. he had the gall to say if i had admitted my offence he would have let me off but is now going to summons me with careless driving when again i aske him what the problem was and why I was stopped. he never actually offered me an oppertunity to say what I had done or exlplain my actions etc.

Not really. The garda doesn't necessarily have to say why they stopped you as soon as you're stopped. Obviously he did at some point explain to you why you were stopped and why you were being charged/cautioned.

and is it relevant that he never formally identified himself as a garda? ok the flashing blue lights kinda gave it away but he was in plain cloths but I had to ask him 3 times to identify himself as a garda to me and what staion he was assigned to and he tole me i was just making the matter worse but i insisted he identify himself.

This may be an issue, others may know more. Afaik, a Garda is required to identify himself to you (by number) if you request that identification. Someone else may know though.

amoKey

seamus wrote:

In fairness, this has happened to me before, but it generally only happens if I'm going a little too fast or not paying attention. Either of which would be a valid reason for the Garda to stop you and charge you with careless driving. .

Was originally in second and had dropped to first I was crossing a junction in the city so I wasn’t going too fast. That said I do accept that I could be seen as me shooting the car in a reckless manner. But the guy wouldn’t listen to me when I tried to explain what had happened in relation . Ah well what can you do.

seamus wrote:

Well, that's your own issue really. You can't complain about that one.
If you go into the motor tax office, they can print you a new one on the spot. You'll have to take the day off though to ensure you have the whole day to wait..

Yeah I hole my hands up to that one, but you know yourself ya tend to just carry the thing in your pocket and the odd time it ends up in the washer. I didn’t know they’d hand one out that fast. I guess I’ll take a day off this week and sort it out.

seamus wrote:

A summons is a summons to appear in court to answer the charges.

.

Crap, Have to clean the suit so.

seamus wrote:

Not really. The garda doesn't necessarily have to say why they stopped you as soon as you're stopped. Obviously he did at some point explain to you why you were stopped and why you were being charged/cautioned..

he only explained later, I had asked him if there was a problem (probably not the best choice of words) and he went on about how I had driven, and when I tried to explain he said “if you had of admitted the offence I would have let you off with a caution…” up to this point I had no idea why he was actually stopping me so I couldn’t “admit” to anything, Being honest I don’t think my car revving is a bad thing. But obviously he felt it bad enough to warrent stopping me.

seamus wrote:

This may be an issue, others may know more. Afaik, a Garda is required to identify himself to you (by number) if you request that identification. Someone else may know though.

I would have thought if he was issuing a summons he would have to identify himself on the spot. But to actually walk off when I asked him to identify himself is a disgrace IMO and then to say I was making matters worse by asking for it?

I guess I'll carry on with the producer and just watch the post for the summons so nad maybe get a lawyer. Cheers

amoKey

I emailed teh Garda PR office and they said that he should have fully identified himeslf with name, number and station when I asked him. they urged me to make a complaint.

Now I'm thinking yeah make a complaint and he'll deffo remember me and my car maybe even pass my reg out to his mates in teh force and my nice simple life becomes even more complicated.

might just wait and see if teh summons comes in the post. and do nothing til then. any way thanks for the answers

Our man in Havana

Now I'm thinking yeah make a complaint and he'll deffo remember me and my car maybe even pass my reg out to his mates in teh force and my nice simple life becomes even more complicated.

Has been known to happen. Best to wait and see if anything happens.

Turner

You lost control of your car...would be grounds for careless driving alright.

As for only giving you ten days to produce your licence, he can only give you ten days by law. If he wants to prosecute you he can only after the tenth day if you have not produced it.

amoKey

Chief--- wrote:

You lost control of your car...would be grounds for careless driving alright.

As for only giving you ten days to produce your licence, he can only give you ten days by law. If he wants to prosecute you he can only after the tenth day if you have not produced it.

Not control in teh sense that he car was all over teh road, it shot forward a few feet and i dropped teh clitch to loose power. I had control of teh wheel at all times. That said I can see the opposite point of view that if I was in full control then teh car wouldn't have shot forward at all. But to not listen to my explaination of events? to actually refuse to let me speak I felt that unfair and will argue the issue in court if it comes to it, not to mention that he flatly refused to properly identify himself when requested. I'm not looking for a way out of it I can see teh POV in relation to control of teh car and thats fair enough. its my first offense anyway so it should be ok maybe a fine or a few points. May main concern was his handling of the situation and the 10 day bit in relation to being able to present a new license by that time.

anyway went to my local station to get the form signed for the replacement license and the garda there was amazed that a detective wouldn't accept my license. he ran a blue light over it and said it looked fine to him but did agree it was a bit tattered and said it would be best in the long rung to replace it. the impression i got was he couldnt see why a detectivce was making a big deal about the condition of tht license teh picture is intact as is all teh details its just been washed a few times so teh paper on teh back is in a bad way. he could have just said produce in 10 days and sort out a new one when you've done that. sure not to worry.

I had nominated a station close to work for ease in relation to presenting documents so I went to them this morning. The garda on duty accepted my documents and the signed replacement form from my local station and she said she'd put a note that I am applying for a replacement as directed by the detective but It may not be back within 10 days and that I had agreed to return with the license when it came in the post. so I cant be done for none production of documentation well hopefully i cant anyway. the fact i was asked on friday night to present and only got teh forms monday becauase the civic center only opens monday to friday shows that i acted on it straight away. and came into them as soon as i had everything, not leaving it to the last minute.

SO all i can do is sit tight and hope the guy had a nice weekend and decides not to submit the summons or doesn't turn up in court.

btowner

A Gard is required to give his garda idenification (number) when asked by any member of the public. The fact that he did not just shows that he was a bad Gard and i don't really think he was a fake gard.

Guy:Incognito

OT but why did yo ustick the car into first ? Surely dropping anchor is about all you had time ot do if the pedestrian walked out in fron tof you? Plus did the gard not see the emergency situation?

CLutch and break, dropping the gear only complicates things and if you are stopping theres no need to change gear.

cast_iron

amoKey wrote:

I had to ask him 3 times to identify himself as a garda to me and what staion he was assigned to and he tole me i was just making the matter worse but i insisted he identify himself.

He was right. You did make things worse for yourself. I know it is your right to ask for his details, and he should tell you, but if he is obviously a Garda, then why ask him in the first place?
That would only annoy him, and since he is the one who decides whether you get prosecuted or not, riling him up the wrong way really is only going to make things worse for you.

Our man in Havana

There is no excuse, the garda should should you his ID card and tell you what station he is assigned to on demand by a member of the public.

amoKey

Stekelly wrote:

OT but why did yo ustick the car into first ? Surely dropping anchor is about all you had time ot do if the pedestrian walked out in fron tof you? Plus did the gard not see the emergency situation?

CLutch and break, dropping the gear only complicates things and if you are stopping theres no need to change gear.

I changed gears because I had stopped. Back into first to take off again, but the Pedestrian had decided to run move across and as said my foot had partially covered the gas when I hit the break so hence the rev and hence the extra power when I came off the clutch.

I tried to explain about the plonker walking out in front of me, he had no interest in it. Said it wasn’t relevant and neither where my “excuses” for the extra reving in the car.

cast_iron wrote:

He was right. You did make things worse for yourself. I know it is your right to ask for his details, and he should tell you, but if he is obviously a Garda, then why ask him in the first place?
That would only annoy him, and since he is the one who decides whether you get prosecuted or not, riling him up the wrong way really is only going to make things worse for you.

How exactly by asking him to follow the rules? We living in Nazi germany or something? He wasn’t obviously a garda, he was in plain cloths. All that gave him away was the flashing blue lights and the siren. Granted a dead give away but still not the point I am with in my rights to request formal identification.

Also I asked because the way he approached my car, his manner in speaking to me as a member of the public left a lot to be desired so I had planned on raising the issue. Honestly If I was in the wrong and deserve a summons then fair enough lay it on me. And I wouldn’t be putting in a complaint because of the summons but because of his lack of professionalism, I felt I was talking to bloody John Wayne the way he swaggered back and forth he even said my license was not good enough, granted it is battered but I’ve had it 4 years and its made of paper of course its gonna battered. And then to say that it wasn’t his concern that I couldn’t get a new license within the 10 days for the producer. Again unprofessional in my opinion. He could have said bring in your application for replacement license, your old license and your insurance cert. then after you have produced return when you have a new license again for a second production to verify you have replaced it. But no he said it wasn’t his problem so too bloody right I’m gonna ask for his name, number and station. He flatly refuse to identify himself that is a breach of the garda rules and regs. Garda have to remain respectful to the public at ALL times. His conduct left a lot to be desired. As for making it worse? Why should my requesting ID change whether I get a summons? My receiving a summons should not be based on the direction of the wind, what he had for dinner or if his wife blew him the night before but based purely upon the fact that I broke the law. The fact he said that can also be raised in court as it implied bully boy tactics as dose the “admit it and I’ll let you off” speach

Seth Brundle

amoKey wrote:

I changed gears because I had stopped. Back into first to take off again, but the Pedestrian had decided to run move across and as said my foot had partially covered the gas when I hit the break so hence the rev and hence the extra power when I came off the clutch.

I tried to explain about the plonker walking out in front of me, he had no interest in it. Said it wasn’t relevant and neither where my “excuses” for the extra reving in the car.

A pedestrian walked out in front of you and your car lurched forwards a few feet towards them. You are lucky that you didn't hit them.

amoKey

kbannon wrote:

A pedestrian walked out in front of you and your car lurched forwards a few feet towards them. You are lucky that you didn't hit them.

never said that. the pedestrian was clear of the street when i shot forward. why in gods name would i shoot forward with a pedestrian in front of me? coz i want a new hood orniment? i said when i came off the clutch the car shot forward. I would be stationary when the pedestrian was in front of the car, the only reason to come off teh clutch was the road was clear. when i lifted my foot from teh clutch teh road was clear as the pedestrian had ran across.

My original post wasn't anything to do with my actions. as i said alread if it is classed as dangereous driving then fair enough. IMO it was a case of bad foot work on teh peddles. but i'm not arguing that. my consern is the attitude of the garda that stopped me. the fact that 1 he would not let me speak, and 2 the whole admit your offence and i'll let you off (innocent til proven guilty anyone??) and 3 when I asked him to properly identify himself he more or less threatened me by saying you're making things worse for your self.

i've already said and agree that my actions could have been seen as dangereous, though they where not intentional on my part.

to clarify. the pedestrian was clear of the road and no one else was crossing when i came off the clutch. it was at this point the car shot forward not before. sas the pedestrian walked out I had the break engaged and the clutch (granted with a little gas) but unless i was rear ended there was no danger to the pedestrian as my car was stationary.

Seth Brundle

I based my post on your original post:

amoKey wrote:

I dropped a gear when a pedestrian walked out infronty of me, dropped the clutch and hit the break. my foot caught the gas when i hit teh break so with dropping the gear and the foot partially on the gas more power went to the engine so when i came off the clutch the car shot forward.

I don't see any mention of how the pedestrian was across the road! If the pedestrian was clear of the road then why would the garda mention them?

amoKey wrote:

i've already said and agree that my actions could have been seen as dangereous, though they where not intentional on my part.

Intention is irrelevant! Its the action that is dangerous not the intention!

kelle

amoKey wrote:

I dropped a gear when a pedestrian walked out infronty of me, dropped the clutch and hit the break.
.

In Singapore, J-walking is punishable by a heavy fine. I wish such a law would be enforced in this country, look at all the hassle you've had because of some idiot in such a hurry he couldn't wait for you to pass before attempting to cross the road.

Agree idiot of a pedestrian.

amoKey

kbannon wrote:

I based my post on your original post:
I don't see any mention of how the pedestrian was across the road! If the pedestrian was clear of the road then why would the garda mention them?
Intention is irrelevant! Its the action that is dangerous not the intention!

i dont know about where you live but where i live ya dont drive into a pedestrian. so i kinda assumed that people would figure out the pedestrian had crossed teh street when i took my foot off teh clutch. I know enough about driving to know that if teh car is in gear and i come off the clucth teh car will move forward.

why did teh garda mention them? no idea i might ask him when i see him. i'll assume for now though that it was probably when i hit the break (and caught the gas) the pedestrian was in front and the garda behind me, he probably then saw teh pedestrian finish crossing the street and then my car move off (as said before not completly in control) . now if he had taken the time to 1 look at my lights hed see teh brake engaged and 2 listen to what i had to say he might have realise i had no intention of hitting anyone. but instead he came in all guns blazing like john wayne. and again he didn't go running down teh street after teh pleb that nearly caused an accident coz if anyone was close behind me the would have rear ended me, or if i han not seen teh idiot i would have hit him. and before you say i should be observing I wqas. everyone else at teh kerb had stopped crossing this good came from behind teh crowd to cross the street.

again not trying to justify what happened, or even trying to gey out of anything or looking for a loop hole. if teh garda deemed me irresponsible, thought I disagree with him i'll let him have his say. I'll let himm issue his summons. then I'll get a lawyer and I'll also bring up the gardas lack of respect and refusal to identify himself. and if i get a fine/points then i'll accept them because he obviously felt i was in teh wrong, and if i step aside i can see how the indicent can be seen as dangereous. but he did not take all factors into consideration, he did not show respect to a memebr of teh public. and he did not follow teh regulations and guide lines laid down for him when dealing with teh public. to teh point that I have brought the issue of his identification to teh attention of teh garda complaints board and they have said i should contact his station and make a complaint. how i can do that when i don't know who he is is beyond me. and if i didn make a formal complaint about it I know for damn sure that it'd only make matters worse. my car would probably be stopped a hell of a lot more than it is.

but anyway back to teh point.

i didn't move off til teh road was clear, I thought people would have used what god gave them and came to that conclusion themselves. however i was worng i do have to spell everything out. the garda mentioned teh pedestrians as i said probably because he say teh guy step out, heard my car rev and say teh guy clear teh street. he probably didn't think to look at teh lights on my car, or teh fact that i wans't moving until teh street had cleared. Like i said when i see him ill ask him

cast_iron

amoKey wrote:

Garda have to remain respectful to the public at ALL times. His conduct left a lot to be desired. As for making it worse? Why should my requesting ID change whether I get a summons? My receiving a summons should not be based on the direction of the wind, what he had for dinner or if his wife blew him the night before but based purely upon the fact that I broke the law.

In an ideal world, yes.
I agree he was out of line and should have given his details straight away when asked. That's not my point though.
Simply put, he's human and can be moody like the rest of us. Catch him on a good day - he might be lenient, a bad day - he mightn't be so generous.
This shouldn't happen, but in reality I'm sure it can and does.

That's why I think he was correct in telling you you weren't helping yourself asking those questions.

Seth Brundle

amoKey wrote:

i dont know about where you live but where i live ya dont drive into a pedestrian. so i kinda assumed that people would figure out the pedestrian had crossed teh street when i took my foot off teh clutch.

You are on the internet - don't assume people can visualise the situation in the way you think they might!

amoKey wrote:

I know enough about driving to know that if teh car is in gear and i come off the clucth teh car will move forward.

Then you would know that you shouldn't sit in gear with your foot on the clutch for this very reason.


Anyhow, none of us were there watching and don't know why the garda got tough with you. I do feel that he believed that you did something wrong for whatever reason and that your persistence in asking him variosu details pissed him off even more than he was. A lesson learnt I guess!

Savman

amoKey wrote:

I dropped a gear when a pedestrian walked out infronty of me, dropped the clutch and hit the break. my foot caught the gas when i hit teh break so with dropping the gear and the foot partially on the gas more power went to the engine so when i came off the clutch the car shot forward. he said I had reved at the pedestrian. I do accept the car shooting forward could be classed as reckless but I wasn't intentional driving recklessly or carelessly. it was more due to corcumstance.

We've all done it where the foot slips and car stutters or shoots forward, it is careless IMO. I'm guessing by your spelling mistakes that English is not your first language? If so you either got a really power-tripping cop who misunderstood you or else your attitude landed you into more trouble.

They're not a perfect breed by any means, but they don't take kindly to arguing at the side of the road with someone they had to stop. It sounds like you attracted the attention to yourself...

Personally speaking, I can't see him taking you to court for a tatty license. Even though you are entitled to ask him for ID etc., many will interpret this as you trying to be a smartass, so in turn they threaten you with everything (speaking from experience here!).

Disclaimer: the above is just my opinion and not any kind of legal advice

amoKey

Savman wrote:

We've all done it where the foot slips and car stutters or shoots forward, it is careless IMO. I'm guessing by your spelling mistakes that English is not your first language? If so you either got a really power-tripping cop who misunderstood you or else your attitude landed you into more trouble.

They're not a perfect breed by any means, but they don't take kindly to arguing at the side of the road with someone they had to stop. It sounds like you attracted the attention to yourself...

Personally speaking, I can't see him taking you to court for a tatty license. Even though you are entitled to ask him for ID etc., many will interpret this as you trying to be a smartass, so in turn they threaten you with everything (speaking from experience here!).

Disclaimer: the above is just my opinion and not any kind of legal advice

What the hell has my nationality to do with his disrespect and disregard for the regulations laid down for him? I’m irish for what its worth, just the product of a bad education system, where if you are in any way slower you are moved to the back of the class and left to rot. And slightly dyslexic not that my nationality or ability to read and write has anything to do with it. If I’m black, white, yellow or bright indigo the garda should afford me the same respect and if he has difficulties understanding me or me him then should request a translator. My nationality is insignificant and if taken into account during any road side questioning is racist and highly illegal.

I agree the foot slipping was careless that’s why I said if my actions where deemed careless I’d take what was coming to me.

I only asked for ID because 1 he was in plain cloths and never actually identified himself as a garda at any point during our kerb side chat. And more importantly I felt his attitude sucked. He was disrespectful to a member of the public.

He had told me my license was unacceptable and asked for more ID I gave him bank cards and a work ID to back up who I was. He said I’d have to produce and I answered “fair enough if that’s what I have to do no problem” he then got even more irate. Now I can’t see anything wrong in my words. I was agreeing to carry out his instructions. My opinion is that because of the car I drive he was predisposed toward me anyway. Then when he realised I wasn’t some 18 year old boy racer (I’m in my mid 30s) he figured he couldn’t throw his weight around and then decide to issue me a summons because I wouldn’t “admit my offence” of course I had previously asked him what the problem was and why I was stopped and he mentioned something about Revving the car and the “pedestrian pissing me off”, his words not mine. And I answered that I hadn’t been annoyed by the pedestrian coz I’m use to them just walking out in front of me. He then said my license wasn’t acceptable etc. at no point did he inform me of why I was stopped until he said he was summonsing me and when I asked what for he said dangereous/careless driving. When I said could I explain my actions he said no I said fair enough he took my details and walked of and I called him back 3 or 4 times to ask him for id.

Now like I said if my actions where careless (and I agree they can seem that way) then fair enough. They where not intentionally careless. Anyones foot can slip. But his actions where down right disgraceful, he was a disgrace to the uniform he represents and shouldn’t be on the street if that is his attitude to a routine traffic stop. So upon legal advice I intend to carry a recorder in the car at all times and the next time I’m stopped I’m taking it out and asking the garda in question to speak up for the mic. That way if they act in the same manor then it will not be my word against his.

When I lived in LA this was common practice because of LAPD acting in the same manor as this guy being disrespectful of the public and threatening in their manner and words. At the end of the day a statement like ”you’re only making it worse” when asking for formal identification is a threat in my book

kbannon wrote:

You are on the internet - don't assume people can visualise the situation in the way you think they might!
Then you would know that you shouldn't sit in gear with your foot on the clutch for this very reason.!

I didn’t sit in gear it took the pedestrian about 2 seconds to clear the road from the time he stepped out to the time he came stepped up the other kerb, so yes I could have dropped straight into neutral but lets be honest unless you’re doing your driving test you don’t do that unless you come to a complete stop. Ie at the lights etc. it was one pedestrian and I could see that he would be clear of the road by the time I had even entered his side of the cross road. I was in the middle of tolbat street coming from store street when the guy waled out (near the supervalue) so I could see that he’d be across by the time I eben entered that part of the cross roads.

kbannon wrote:

Anyhow, none of us were there watching and don't know why the garda got tough with you. I do feel that he believed that you did something wrong for whatever reason and that your persistence in asking him variosu details pissed him off even more than he was. A lesson learnt I guess!

Yeah next time I wont answer his questions what so ever coz if I open my mouth he may pick me up wrong. And I wont ever ask a question because I may be deemed a smart ass. Then how in the love of god am I to know what I am stopped for?

I asked the guy to repeat the information I was required to bring in as I couldn’t under stand him. I didn’t say I couldn’t understand him I just said I didn’t catch the last bit could he repeat himself please. He got irate at that. I guess he had a bad day or something maybe had to pull a double shift or they ran out of doughnuts, my point is he MUST be respectful to the public at ALL times. He is a public servant.

cast_iron wrote:

Simply put, he's human and can be moody like the rest of us. Catch him on a good day - he might be lenient, a bad day - he mightn't be so generous.
This shouldn't happen, but in reality I'm sure it can and does.

That's why I think he was correct in telling you you weren't helping yourself asking those questions.

Well my opinion is no matter what type of day he had he has to be respectful of the public, regardless of what I had done. At the end of the day it was a simple traffic stop. I hadn’t robbed a bank or anything like that. At no point in time did he show any respect for me a member of the public. He is a public servant when he walks out on the street then what ever mood he’s in gets left behind he has a job to do. And he has rules and regulations to follow and one of those is when asked to identify yourself then you do so with Name, number and station. Not walk away and ignore the question and have to be called back and asked a number of times. He was a detective no some new guy out on the beat he’s been in uniform long enough to know how he should act and how to deal with the public and if he’s incapable of that then he should resign.

Gurgle

OP, at a guess you'll never get the summons.

Remember there are plenty of twats driving around out there who would have revved at the pedestrian and deliberately shot forward as soon as he was barely clear.

The garda was just trying to scare you into driving more cautiously. A plain-clothes garda in an unmarked car is not going to do the paperwork to get you in court for a charge which any half-decent lawyer would have thrown out in 5 minutes flat.

He has better things to do.

Btw, for future reference, the correct response is 'Sorry guard, its these new shoes, I accidentally caught the accelerator when I hit the brakes for that drunk guy'.

Always quickest to be excrusiatingly polite to the gardai when you're stopped. Makes them less inclined to drag you to court. Demanding their details just pisses them off, and if they get a hint you're going to make a complaint they will make sure their paperwork is in first.