Complicated Question on Guitar and Bass Strings

O.P.H

In the band I'm with we play alot of open string(the string is not fretted) and it is integral to our sound, but when we need to change key to facilitate a singer we have a big problem, you can no longer use the open strings.
Now I know you can use a capo up along the neck but the sound is not as good on the natural open strings, you lose frets the farther you go up the neck and capo doesnt work to well on bass.
I know you can also tune all of your strings up or down a few tones but that has it problems too.
A solution that I think should work and physically I know it could work would be to get specific strings made for us, but I dont know if that can be done. For example, take the bass strings E, A, D, G, now if you play a song with those strings using open strings and are in A Major but want to now raise the key of that song up to F major thats is a raise of 8 semi tones or 8 frets, capos or tuning wont help, but if you had specific strings made for you, that would do the trick, as in -

E string -raised 8 frets- becomes a C string
A string -raised 8 frets- becomes a F string
D string -raised 8 frets- becomes a A(sharpe) string
G string -raised 8 frets- becomes a D(sharpe) string
- you could now play the same song in this new higher key, but use the same fret positions and also use the same open strings as you did when playing in the lower key.
So basically what I am saying is that if you could get a strings company to make you specific strings that would solve our problem, now is that possible?
Also if anyone has any other ideas that would be great, cheers.

O.P.H

gaffmaster

Not really sure what you mean?? Maybe someone with more knowlege on strings can help with the science, but as far as i know, so long as a string is tuned (regardless of guage) going up the frets will have the same tonal change.

You can order custom guaged sets i think, ie where you choose the guage of each string. or you could buy all the strings idividually until you get the tension you are looking for? Then you will need to adjust your truss rod and bridge etc.

best of luck.

Mongo

To change tunings drastcially and keep the same sustain,attack etc you'll have to set up the guitar differently.Pickup level,intonation,nut width etc.it's a lot of work!

Voodu Child

Cant speak for bass, but you havent a hope in the world of raising the high E by 8 semitones on a guitar.

Gaspode

O.P.H wrote:

In the band I'm with we play alot of open string and it is integral to our sound, but when we need to change key to facilitate a singer we have a big problem, you can no longer use the open strings.
Now I know you can use a capo up along the neck but the sound is not as good on the natural open strings, you lose frets the farther you go up the neck and capo doesnt work to well on bass.
I know you can also tune all of your strings up or down a few tones but that has it problems too.
A solution that I think should work and physically I know it could work would be to get specific strings made for us, but I dont know if that can be done. For example, take the bass strings E, A, D, G, now if you play a song with those strings using open strings and are in A Major but want to now raise the key of that song up to F major thats is a raise of 8 semi tones or 8 frets, capos or tuning wont help, but if you had specific strings made for you, that would do the trick, as in -

E string -raised 8 frets- becomes a C string
A string -raised 8 frets- becomes a F string
D string -raised 8 frets- becomes a A(sharpe) string
G string -raised 8 frets- becomes a D(sharpe) string
- you could now play the same song in this new higher key, but use the same fret positions and also use the same open strings as you did when playing in the lower key.
So basically what I am saying is that if you could get a strings company to make you specific strings that would solve our problem, now is that possible?
Also if anyone has any other ideas that would be great, cheers.

O.P.H

Ouch me brain is hurting reading that!:D

If you can explain what exactly do you mean by 'we play a lot of open string' then the rest of the question might make more sense. Do you mean open tunings or just playing the strings unfretted?

Secondly, I wouldnt

O.P.H

What I mean by open string is that the string is unfretted

Eoin Madsen

O.P.H wrote:

E string -raised 8 frets- becomes a C string
A string -raised 8 frets- becomes a F string
D string -raised 8 frets- becomes a A(sharpe) string
G string -raised 8 frets- becomes a D(sharpe) string
- you could now play the same song in this new higher key, but use the same fret positions and also use the same open strings as you did when playing in the lower key.

You know, if you tune a bass up 8 semitones it'll be a semitone higher than a 7 string guitar.

What I'd suggest as an alternative is tuning down 4 semitones. In terms of matching gauge, all you'd need to do is get a pack of strings for a 5 string bass. Put the B E A D strings on (instead of E A D G) and then tune them a semitone sharp of the intended pitch: C F A# D#.

No matter what way you go about it, the bass will of course need a new setup - adjustments to intonation, string height, and neck relief.

punchdrunk

simple answer,buy one of these....
http://www.thomann.de/ie/fender_jaguar_baritone_custom.htm

O.P.H

Wow, that's actually very interesting, cheers!

Ancient1

There are only 2 solutions here:

a) fire the singer, or

b) learn transposition.

O.P.H

Transposition would technically work but we would lose that all important open string sound then.

Voodu Child

Those roland guitar sythns can pitchshift each string individually, and pretty much give you any tuning you want without touching the strings, afaik. I think the line 6 guitars/bass might do the same.

Ive not tried it though, and reckon it would sound pretty sh1tty

Doctor J

Tune down, rather than up. Much easier.

ball ox

just use an alternate open tuning............

Ancient1

I just can't imagine a scenario where a band needs to have custom strings made .
Sounds to me like it's time to bring new instruments to the table!

Gaspode

Far simpler to get a singer who can sing in more than one key? I agree its far easier to tune down than up, or if its just bass your thinking of, get a five string with the low B string.

joenailface

sounds like you wanna waste a lot of money instead of do the clever thing and fire the singer :P if the octave is so important to you find a piccolo bass and downtune it to whatever, that would effectivly be tuning a normal bass up a huge amount as the piccolo is an octave higher than normal, as for the guitar ive never heard of a "piccolo" guitar but im sure someone has made them and if not im sure you could get a luthier to make you a neck for your electric but hed have to figure the scale and all that. btw the tuning your aiming to get is an octave higher than the tuning used by kyuss and queens of the stone age (along with 50 million metal bands im sure) buy yerselves some thicker strings and tune them to C3 before you go wasting thousands of euro on other stuff...you never know you might like the lower tone and you also never know, your singer might also not be able to sing at that key either :P in which case back to the simple solution of fire his ass