Scientology

askquestions

Ive moved this thread from another section as I thought it was more appropriate here.

Im concerned as someone close to me is now attending the Dublin Church of Scientology on a regular basis. They initially went out of interest but its taking over most of their spare time. Everytime they come out of the office they have been sold some other DVD/book/course and my friend won't listen to any of the concerns I have about the manipulation which I can clearly see. There are regular phone calls at the most inappropriate times. On Sundays over holidays when most people are on their down time relaxing with family and friends - they persist that my friend come in for more study. Its getting to the point where our friendship is under severe pressure as I have reservations about this organisation from what I have read. I dont know where to turn to try to convince this person of the dangers of such an organisation that consume a person in this way. Im afraid they have already sucked my friend as nothing I can say is heeded.

What should I do? Has anyone any first hand experience of this organisation? Am I over reacting or am I right to be concerned? I would really appreciate anyones advice in how to deal with this as Im at a dead end as my friend will not listen.

LegacyUser

'Read this article there is a bit on page 2 and 3 about how these wackos operate and what they believe. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2535187.html'

chump

Let him get on with his own religious experience. Tis his choice and his life.

Rb

chump wrote:

Let him get on with his own religious experience. Tis his choice and his life.

I agree, its his business and even though its going to cost him a huge amount, both his dedication and his money, its not up to you to meddle with.

Besides, the rest of the scientologists wouldn't be happy if they found out you were meddling with one of their drones, and you don't want to píss the scientologists off, they're dangerous.

Dave!

I don't think it's as straight forward as saying "it's his business, leave him alone." They're friends, so they have a certain amount of responsibility to look after each other. Scientology is a dangerous cult and can end up costing the person being recruited a lot of money. It should not be equated with any religion which mainly has a relatively benign effect on the person, as Scientology is solely a money-making organisating, which employs serious psychological techniques to convert people.
(legal disclaimer so they don't try to sue me: Italicized text may or may not be true!)

As to who can help you, I'm sure someone else will be able to post some useful information.

Uthur

Send them to http://www.xenu.net/ All the info on $cientology
anyone could ever need

free2fly

I'm sure that you're very worried about your friend. I would be as well. Unfortunately I don't know where to send you for help. Is his family aware that this is going on?

Rb

DaveMcG wrote:

I don't think it's as straight forward as saying "it's his business, leave him alone." They're friends, so they have a certain amount of responsibility to look after each other. Scientology is a dangerous cult and can end up costing the person being recruited a lot of money. It should not be equated with any religion which mainly has a relatively benign effect on the person, as Scientology is solely a money-making organisating, which employs serious psychological techniques to convert people.
(legal disclaimer so they don't try to sue me: Italicized text may or may not be true!)

As to who can help you, I'm sure someone else will be able to post some useful information.

Hard to get someone who has been brain-washed by a cult to quit it though, since they now "believe" what they've been told. Also, being involved with trying to get a scientologist away from the religion/cult could bring extreme amounts of trouble on the helper. I've no doubts that these are dangerous people, and meddling with them is only asking for trouble. They make "enemy lists" ffs!

Staging an intervention or something of that sort might help, i.e sitting him down with a few friends/family and letting them talk about the effect that his devotion to this cult is having on not only himself, but the ones he loves aswell. Try to talk some sense into him, but depending on how much of an effect/how badly they've filled his head he could be well past the point of no return at this stage.

The cult is obviously fulfilling some need he has, whether it be social or self-esteem (its certainly not financial anyway), if his friends could find some way of fulfilling this need for him instead then he may no longer have a use for the "scientologists".

He could always try tieing his friend to a chair and offering him hover bikes though

wyndham

OP, have a look here:

www.dialogueireland.org

This is an organisation that monitors these cults in Ireland. These are indeed dangerous people. As to fulfilling some need that your friend has, this 'need' has been created in your friends mind by the scientologists. They work by breaking down a person and convincing them that they are inadequate and can only be helped through involvement with the cult. Their 'personality test' is the most famous of these methods. You could call in to their shop in Middle Abbey St. if you wanted a better idea. Read up on them first and go prepared. (Bring a friend!) Try and stiffle your laughter when they bring out their testing 'machine' though.;)

askquestions

I have seen www.zenu.net but I thought if I had more real life experiences and examples from people closer to home it would have more weight behind it. Many things you read on websites can be slanted/biased one way or another. I only seem to have come across the negative sites on the internet and want my friend to know that I am open minded enough to try and view this from both points of view yet at the same time show that there real people who have been effected by this organisation.
Thank you DaveMcG for your reassuring comments. I was starting to think there was a plot against me when all I have are real concerns for my friends future and happiness.
Clump & Rb_ie - I certainly don't want to meddle in anyones life. If you saw a friend in a situation that you did't think was good for them Im sure you would not sit back and do nothing.

Rb

askquestions wrote:

I have seen www.zenu.net but I thought if I had more real life experiences and examples from people closer to home it would have more weight behind it. Many things you read on websites can be slanted/biased one way or another. I only seem to have come across the negative sites on the internet and want my friend to know that I am open minded enough to try and view this from both points of view yet at the same time show that there real people who have been effected by this organisation.
Thank you DaveMcG for your reassuring comments. I was starting to think there was a plot against me when all I have are real concerns for my friends future and happiness.
Clump & Rb_ie - I certainly don't want to meddle in anyones life. If you saw a friend in a situation that you did't think was good for them Im sure you would not sit back and do nothing.

Surely enough if I saw a friend of mine joining such a cult, I'd want to do something about it. That said, I've seen and read enough evidence to believe that these are extremely dangerous people and becoming a blip on their radar is one of the last things I would want to do.

You may not be meddling, or at least not trying to, but if the scientologists found out you were trying to get one of their members out of the organisation, they could make life difficult for you.

If a friend of mine even began going to Scientologist meetings, I'd try and snap them out of it as quick as possible, but in your case it seems hes been going for a while and is somewhat "invested" in it (by that I mean brain-washed). If hes putting off his friends/family and spending most of his free time there, it would certainly suggest he is in quite deep and getting him out of that would be extremely difficult.

Hundreds of thousands of people have lost their friends or family members to scientology, I'm sure these people have tried to get their friends out of it but judging by the rate scientology is spreading, for the most part it has been futile.

Even the thread of losing his friends/family/those close to him may not be enough to get him away from this, so if you insist on trying I can only wish you good luck in your efforts.

askquestions

I have never used the word cult before as I have tried to stay as impartial as possible.

Have any of you personal experiences or are you going on what you may have read elsewhere on the net etc. I hate scaremongering and really need real experiences with the Irish experience.

But if what you are saying is true its making me more and more concerned. Do you think they would monitor forums like this ?

wyndham

askquestions wrote:

Do you think they would monitor forums like this ?

Without a doubt. Scientology is a wealthy organisation, made so through the asset stripping of it's members, and as such has the resources to constantly monitor all sections of the media for developments. I'm sure they can use google.

Rb

askquestions wrote:

Do you think they would monitor forums like this ?

Dunno, might even have a few members floating around but the great thing about forums is we're all just usernames. Wouldn't worry about it tbh, they'll never find out who you are. The only thing you've to worry about it if you're pestering your friend about leaving them, trying different things to make him quit and then he goes and mentions it to the rest of them. Their "enemy list" isn't something you want to join, since they teach to attack/destroy their enemies (thats how f*cking crazy they are).

Have no personal experience with the scientologists, sorry, just from what I've read (and I've read quite a lot). I'd hope everyone I know has more sense than to join this money making brain-washing scam, maybe someday one of them will prove me wrong but hopefully not.

Mucco

The British high court describes L Ron Hubbard as 'a charlatan and worse'. Look up justice Latey in google. I'd try to get your friend out.

Nature Boy

Just out of interest. If a friend of yours (I'm referring to everyone!) was just as consumed by another religion (such as the catholic religion) as the person mentioned here. Would you be angry at/concerned for your friend?

(By the way I don't follow scientology!)

Rb

Nature Boy wrote:

Just out of interest. If a friend of yours (I'm referring to everyone!) was just as consumed by another religion (such as the catholic religion) as the person mentioned here. Would you be angry at/concerned for your friend?

(By the way I don't follow scientology!)

No not at all. Christian religions aren't going to consume my friends, take every penny they have and destroy their lives.

I say "take" because Scientology brain-washes people into giving up every asset they own then working for them and having absolutely nothing to show from it. Christian religions ask for donations, they don't sit their members down and brain-wash them but they do instill believes which the members can either accept or reject, or question. Christianity gives people choices, scientology doesn't.

Christian religions ask for a few hours per week, for mass or a church service, they don't ask that a person give up their entire lives to work and promote their religion.

Also, Christian religions don't tell or promote their members its ok to go destroying/attacking those who question or object to their existence.

mdebets

Have look here. They have an email address and mail address from a family in Wexford who is trying to get their son out of this organisation. They might be able to help you.

bug

Nature Boy wrote:

Just out of interest. If a friend of yours (I'm referring to everyone!) was just as consumed by another religion (such as the catholic religion) as the person mentioned here. Would you be angry at/concerned for your friend?

(By the way I don't follow scientology!)

I'd be a bit freaked out by anyone close to me who in adult life became "totally consumed" in any particular religion if they hadn't been prior to that.

askquestions

Obviously anything in moderation is fine. But I believe when something starts to consume a persons life be that religion, (and I do not believe this to be a religion), alcohol, work etc. it then becomes unhealthy for a person as life becomes unbalanced and any sense of perspective on other things in life becomes deminished.

wyndham

Nature Boy wrote:

Just out of interest. If a friend of yours (I'm referring to everyone!) was just as consumed by another religion (such as the catholic religion) as the person mentioned here. Would you be angry at/concerned for your friend?

(By the way I don't follow scientology!)

It is not a religion.

See this page, particularly the box with the five aspects of a cult on the left of the page.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_report/1999/02/99/e-cyclopedia/392396.stm

Rb

mdebets wrote:

Have look here. They have an email address and mail address from a family in Wexford who is trying to get their son out of this organisation. They might be able to help you.

Absolutely sick that they could destroy a persons free will like that.

Nature Boy

rb_ie wrote:

No not at all. Christian religions aren't going to consume my friends, take every penny they have and destroy their lives.

I say "take" because Scientology brain-washes people into giving up every asset they own then working for them and having absolutely nothing to show from it. Christian religions ask for donations, they don't sit their members down and brain-wash them but they do instill believes which the members can either accept or reject, or question. Christianity gives people choices, scientology doesn't.

Christian religions ask for a few hours per week, for mass or a church service, they don't ask that a person give up their entire lives to work and promote their religion.

Also, Christian religions don't tell or promote their members its ok to go destroying/attacking those who question or object to their existence.

I know but say if someone was completely taken by it and spent all of their time praying and stuff. And as well as that, it does say in the bible that you have to give up all of your earthly posessions to get into heaven. That's about the same as the scientology thing.

What if a friend wanted to become one a monk? Would have to give up everything, and pray all of the time!

What i'm trying to say is, is this an issue with scientology or is it an issue with a friend generally neglecting friends and family?

Rb

Nature Boy wrote:

I know but say if someone was completely taken by it and spent all of their time praying and stuff. And as well as that, it does say in the bible that you have to give up all of your earthly posessions to get into heaven. That's about the same as the scientology thing.

What if a friend wanted to become one a monk? Would have to give up everything, and pray all of the time!

What i'm trying to say is, is this an issue with scientology or is it an issue with a friend generally neglecting friends and family?

But does any priest ask a member to give up all of their belongings?Or brain-wash them into it? If someone gives up their belongings in a christian religion, its their choice. Not very many do, nor is there ever pressure put on them to do so. Scientology not only brain-washes their members into handing over every asset they own, but also that they devote their entire life to the religion. Theres not much of a choice, these people are conditioned and their brains are messed with to the extent that they give up their will, their freedom etc. and follow orders made by people that they're told are above them, and if they pay enough money maybe one day they can be one of them.
If someone wanted to give up their job and join a monestry, thats a choice of theirs made from their own free will and judgement, they're doing what they think is best for themselves and have not been told they have to do this, that or the other.

If I had a friend who wanted to become a priest, I'd fully support them. They've made their own choice in it and I know that the Church puts no pressure on people to join them.

I have a massive issue with scientology and I always will, as long as those scamming f*cks are allowed to continue their ways I'll have an issue with them. They're not a recognised religion, they're a cult which at the very top, theres some very very rich people laughing at what they've created, and the people that follow their orders.

I won't say anything about their beliefs, because they're their beliefs, but ffs, this crap was invented by a failed science fiction writer who has said in the past that if he created a religion he would become a very rich person (or something along those lines). If another science fiction writer, or any writer for that fact, turned around tomorrow and was claiming he knew everything about how the earth started and then came out with this off the wall story, I certainly wouldn't be believing it. Hes a writer ffs, creating storys is what he does.

Of course there is an issue with someone who was once a friend and loving family member disregarding said friends and family for a cult. Especially a cult that has been proven to be a crazy, money hungry scam. I wouldn't want to see a friend getting brain-washed and handing their cash over to anyone.

Also, the bible may say that one has to give up their earthly possesions to get into heaven, is that not what people do when they die?I.e through their will they give away their assets.

Does the Bible say we have to give up all our stuff to the church/organisation, then join the organisation, promote said organisation, devote the rest of our lives to the organisation/church, disregard our friends and family and then we might get into heaven?No, but the Scientologists do.

askquestions

mdebets wrote:

Have look here. They have an email address and mail address from a family in Wexford who is trying to get their son out of this organisation. They might be able to help you.

I checked this site out but its quite outdated. Last update on the site was in 1997 I think. I wonder what was the end result as there is no conclusion to his story.

cashback

OP maybe you could print out a few pages off the net as some other members have highlighted in previous posts. The sites that contain the truth behind Scientology. Put them in an envelope and drop it through their front door.
They might be more inclined to read it in their own time than listen to you trying to put them off.
Might not do any good but maybe worth a try.

Rb

askquestions wrote:

I checked this site out but its quite outdated. Last update on the site was in 1997 I think. I wonder what was the end result as there is no conclusion to his story.

Could find absolutely no updates to it on Google.

Apologies to the mods aswell, know this isn't the place to be debating this...

askquestions: I'd say the best thing you can do is inform his parents first and foremost (providing they aren't aware already), inform them of this organisation and their techniques and the dangers they present. Then get anyone else who is aware together and sit him down and get him to stop going to the meetings at once. Get him to break contact with any other scientologists that he may know and try to get him to focus on his life and his friends once again. Depending on how far in he is, he may or may not accept the facts about this cult/organisation. Even get him to go away with you or something for a while, go backpacking through Europe/Africa/Australia etc. but get him away from this crowd until he comes to realise what a pack of money hungry psychopaths they are and how close he was to giving up everything for them.

Hopefully he won't go back and report what happened, as I've said before the last thing you want to do is become a blip on the scientologists radar, but since he is a friend and you obviously care about him, you've got to try I suppose.

Dave!

rb_ie wrote:

He could always try tieing his friend to a chair and offering him hover bikes though

But I heard them hover...!!!

Gordon

Can people please quit it with the Scientology bashing and stick to the OP?

Thanks to an earlier link on this thread - here's a great page on that site about: How to talk to a scientologist.

First, you have to care. You have to care for them. Regardless of what you think about what they believe or do, you have to care.



Throw out any bigotry or intolerance you might have and be a caring person. Listen to them. Assure them you only want good things for them. Give them a safe place to visit or come to.



Many times Scientologists won’t leave the church even though they want to, if they have no safe place or people of unconditional trust to go to.

4Xcut

chump wrote:

Let him get on with his own religious experience. Tis his choice and his life.

While i would be very much of the opinion that people shouldn't force their religious beliefs on others, this is a bit different. He is worried about loosing a friend. This might mean that the person is loosing contact with others as well. Maybe not much now but it might become more and more in time. No relgigion should consume someone in this way and make them start to loose their friends.

Sam Vimes

show him the scientology epsiode of south park FTW

Sangre

The organisation is a cult. Get him out. Then stop being his friend for being an idiot.

4Xcut

Wasn't sure about legal liabilities there for a sec.

Revision to my above statement:

It's an evil cult, get him out and don't worry about what he says, its for his own good.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Commander Vimes wrote:

show him the scientology epsiode of south park FTW

Yeah definitely - PS what does FTW mean

poobum

the weird thing about the south park episode...is it is very accurate on what scientologist people believe...it is a dangerou cult! think it is a religion is even a mistake
if anybody is intereste in seeing this episode go to www.allsp.com go to series 9 and look at episode called "trapped in closet"
http://theunfunnytruth.ytmnd.com/
thats a site about them...they are so dangerous! if your friend is getting in witht them...he needs to get out asap! it wont just hurt is pocket(which it will do considerably)



heres a dumbed down thing of what scientologists believe-

75 million years ago there was an evil galactic overlord named Xenu who ruled over 76 planets including earth (then called Teegeeack).

Due to overpopulation, Xenu decided to gather up the 13.5 trillion people on these planets and send them into volcanoes on earth off the Canary and Hawaiian Islands. He then dropped H-bombs and killed the people.

Xenu trapped the souls of these people in boxes and implanted them with a false reality. The confused souls with these false realities attached themselves in clusters to the last remaining people on Earth. Today we all hold about 2,000 alien souls that can only be released by a Scientologist with auditing sessions. So you pay lots of money to learn a bunch of self-help mind over matter tricks. In Scientology you are brainwashed into believing an un-true history, and you are promised an unattainable reward. Scientologist believe that once you have reached the upper levels of "OT" you can fly around and move things with your mind and do all sorts of fun stuff.

This cult Scientology was created by L. Ron Hubbard, a warp minded 1950's SCIENCE FICTION WRITER



hers another good read on them- http://www.scientology-lies.com/humanface.html

also any1 on o connell street ever see people offering free stress tests? they are offered in other places to...but they are scientologists! they bring you up into some room and sit u down with what is in effect a tin you hold connected to a box that they pretend to be a stress reader...its not! its much weirder then that...its the thing they use to see how many of those alien souls are in your body! they dont tell you this at time! and they always tell you that you are stresse, and that they have books, dvds, and seminars etc that you should sign up for! they put alot of pressure on you! they wouldnt let me leve untill i got very hit one of them...(i was with my sister an he tried to push her away from door and i snapped)

Sam Vimes

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote:

Yeah definitely - PS what does FTW mean

for the win afaik

Rb

Commander Vimes wrote:

for the win afaik

Yep. Google it if you want to get the full meaning, could also be "for teh win".