pot control, discussion please...

ditpoker

reading NFR's Q&A he mentions controlling the pot size and I have heard a bit about pot control before. I'm assuming this is mainly to do with post flop play, and probably very very important in omaha. I'm sure its something people do without thinking like flopping a straight with 3 suited cards on the board, you wanna try and get to a showdown, but cheaply etc.

can anyone, particularly the more advanced players share some thoughts on pot control? thanks.

Norwich Fan Rob

ok , lets say u have a hand like AQ, and u raise pre flop, the flop comes A82........checked to u and u bet, u get a caller, the turn comes a 6, villian checks again.......a lot of people bet here, imo this is a mistake, u have a vulnerable 1 pair hand, lets say u are both very deep, if u bet , u give the villian a chance to raise, and u inflate the pot with your marginal hand......villian may have 2 pair or a set, if not and u are ahead, they most likely only have 3 outs to overtake u on the river, this is only a 6% chance.
By betting the turn, u lose the most when u are behind, u also win the least when u are ahead, as if u fire a 2nd shot, villian should fold hands like AT or AJ. Finally, by checking, u can almost stand to call a bet on the river, as the pot is smaller, if villian leads, he may think u have missed or are weak and will bet small to induce a call, he may also bet a weaker ace thinking he is ahead, furthermore, again as u check the turn, villian may well bluff at the river, and therefore u win this amount, again more than u woulda won by betting the turn, finally, if villian checks to u again on the river, he is liable to call a bet with a weaker ace or something like JJ or QQ, thinking u have missed.
You keep the pot manageable with your 1 pair hand, win the most if villian has nothing, or a weaker hand, and lose the least when u are behind.

[nicK]

great explanation rob..

i'd imagine pot control is a lot more important for the medium/higher limits though..
at the lower limits, you'd be surprised what nonsense gets to show-down so some may argue your losing value not betting every street with tpgk..

valor

some examples of other goods to control the size of the pot

a) in a 3 bet pot with marginal made hand - CO opens I 3 bet JJ on button, he calls. Q55 - i would almost always check behind
b) vs a loose passive donk when you have something with showdown value - 50/6/1 limp co, i raise AQ on button, he calls. 522 rainbow, he checks I will almost always check behind here

jimbling

Think pot control is something I want to work on as well. I have had some difficulty with it in the past.
Very interesting post rob...... and I def think that is one of the aspects of my game that I didn't change when I moved from the lower limits to the medium/high limits.

Im back down to the lower end of the meduim scale at the moment, so will try and incorporate that into my game over the next few weeks (assuming I get some time to play - not much of that at the moment)

Is there any good articles on the subject that someone can link too??*





*Not to take away from a discussion here, but would like something to print out and read later.

shoutman

It interesting stuff so far, what about pot control when oop? Are stopper bets any use or are they too easily identified?

sikes

here is a post from 2+2

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=3342313&page=3&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1&vc=1

ditpoker

thanks rob and sikes.

i assume this remain the same regardless of tourney or cash, or in tourny is it better to push whatever edge you may have due to rising blinds etc?

ianmc38

I think the AQ example given by Rob is probably the most standard place to check behind for pot control. It's a big mistake that donks always make at lower limits. I've top pair ~ teh nuts!

AmarilloFats

valor wrote:

some examples of other goods to control the size of the pot

a) in a 3 bet pot with marginal made hand - CO opens I 3 bet JJ on button, he calls. Q55 - i would almost always check behind
b) vs a loose passive donk when you have something with showdown value - 50/6/1 limp co, i raise AQ on button, he calls. 522 rainbow, he checks I will almost always check behind here

Hi Valor,
I would bet most of the times in these situations..
Because in both cases I will have the best hand most of the time.
It disguises when I have hit hardder...
You only have one opponent.
You've raised preflop
charging for free cards.
They cill call with worse hands In Both scenarios