Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Kings - Easy call? raise?or fold?

  • 10-01-2007 1:40am
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 73 ✭✭


    Ok maybe this is very standard but kinda annoyin me and wanted someone elses opinion.

    5/10 full ring game

    Villain has been very very tight player.

    Hero($1050) - MP
    Villain($1200) - LP

    Folded to Hero
    Hero (KK): Raises to $45
    Villain: Reraise to $155
    Hero: ?????

    I'm thinking that his range here is AA or QQ since i have the Kings,But more than lightly Aces since hes been playin so quietly until now.I'm thinkin if I call I have to be ready to commit it all so would like some suggestions.If he wasn't such a tight player I'd reraise but just unsure.Had lost a simliar pot all in after low flop with kings the night before to aces so maybe thats affecting me too.
    Call,Raise or fold?


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,754 ✭✭✭ianmc38


    Based on your description, I'd call and reassess if he's the type of player that will fold JJ/QQ/AK to a 3-bet.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭valor


    based on your description, call

    anything else would be bad


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,860 ✭✭✭ditpoker


    is there any sense in re-raising, making it 350 say, and if he comes back over the top you've alot more information and makes the fold easier?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,895 ✭✭✭✭phantom_lord


    ditpoker wrote:
    is there any sense in re-raising, making it 350 say, and if he comes back over the top you've alot more information and makes the fold easier?
    no...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,254 ✭✭✭fuzzbox


    Wow, if he has precisely AA/QQ then that is one super-tight mofo.

    I usualloy call and CRAI on good flops (one that dont have an Ace or Q in them).


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 73 ✭✭Nocturnal


    Believe it or not,I actually folded.It might have been a awful move but I really just had a sick feeling I was running into aces. It was the end of the night I'd been doing well and wanted to finish on a good note. Only had 45 in the pot and I'd prefer the one to be doing the reraising in this situation. Also I reckon there was a huge raise coming on any flop which I wouldnt have been happy calling. Thanks for your views guys.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,364 ✭✭✭Mr. Flibble


    Nocturnal wrote:
    Believe it or not,I actually folded.It might have been a awful move but I really just had a sick feeling I was running into aces.
    Humm, I understand your logic that if the guy has QQ or AA it looks like you'll only go broke if he has AA but he won't go broke with QQ.

    Personally I would have called for set value, he also may check behind if he's got AK.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 375 ✭✭kebabfest


    the raise does smell of AA considering what you said of the player. However you still cant fold KK pre-flop.
    If he is a tight as you say you can probably play him a lot of flops.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,151 ✭✭✭Scouser in Dub


    Personally I would have called for set value, he also may check behind if he's got AK.

    Can we play for set value if the villain in the hand seems very unlikely to pay off for his stack if we hit?

    and do we expect to see villains so tight that any 3 bet is AA?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,502 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    This post has been deleted.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 73 ✭✭Nocturnal


    LuckyLloyd wrote:
    Is there no way that villian will do this with AK or QQ??

    yeah well i felt it was a gamble between QQ and AA but I guess some of the time there is also the possibility of AK. And admitedly I did play this very tight..
    Personally I would have called for set value, he also may check behind if he's got AK.

    Thinking back on it now,I reckon this would have been the right play.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,537 ✭✭✭Ste05


    I hope you don't take offence to this, but if you don't know what to do with KK Pre-Flop to a re-raise I'd suggest you move down in the levels, I hope you are fairly wealthy and this kind of money isn't that much to you, otherwise I'd suggest you move down.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭valor


    This is really horrible


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,895 ✭✭✭✭phantom_lord


    wwwaaayyy too tight.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,723 ✭✭✭empirix


    Definite call, you will still have some good plays on the flop(carefully mind you), might also be possible the villain was getting a wee bit pissed off and decided to try and steal the pot


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,364 ✭✭✭Mr. Flibble


    LuckyLloyd wrote:
    However, re - raising and getting it all in on this hand is never a mistake. It would be horrible if you ran into AA - but you still wouldn't have done anything wrong IMO.
    I've got to disagree. There are so many players out there that will not get all in for 100BBs with QQ, especially vs a tight player (which I gather Nocturnal is). So you are effectively bluffing with KK, risking 1000 to win 210 or so.
    Can we play for set value if the villain in the hand seems very unlikely to pay off for his stack if we hit?

    I guess we need to make 110 (how much it is for us to call) * 7.5 (chances of hitting a set) + a bit for when out set gets beat on average for us to break even. I'd say this is likely, but I don't know the villain.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,151 ✭✭✭Scouser in Dub


    so hero effectively needs villain to commit his stack on a k high board when he is so tight that a 3bet means AA? Can't see it, but there has to be ways to push him off the best hand if indeed his holding is AA


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 910 ✭✭✭AmarilloFats


    If villain is as tight as hero says then hero should be repoppping him preflop him left and right and left again...

    When hero does this all of a sudden his KK's value has IMproved immeasurably....
    To allow a player to play tight tight is a mistake.....If you're in a situation where your KK has Fuk all value to a reraise well you need to massage that situation.

    But taking the hand in a vacuum, I call preflop...And re-evaluate! LOL


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭Rb


    wwwaaayyy too tight.
    .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,502 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    This post has been deleted.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,537 ✭✭✭Ste05


    LuckyLloyd wrote:
    I'm sorry, but we are never bluffing pre - flop with KK!! This thread is mad IMO. If you aren't willing to get it in with KK pre - flop then you are either underrolled and playing scared, or far too tight.
    You can "Effectively" be bluffing with KK, which is any time that the only hand that will call you is one that beats you. i.e. AA.

    [EDIT: But I obviously agree I'm getting All-In Pre-Flop 99.5% of the time without any worries, but sometimes calling instead of raising has a higher Expectation and the decision as to which option to take depends on the players involved and how they view each other.]

    If the opponent is as tight as the OP says, and will fold QQ- and AK to a re-raise, then it basically is a bluff, how this remains the case is a bit mad to me, because I'd be re-raising him alot if this was the case, to such a degree that this range would have no option but to increase, or else he'd be just bleeding money to me.

    How someone should play KK Pre-Flop is all a matter of how the 2 players view each other, you're setting up the hand for the rest of the hand, PF is just the first step along the way to hopefully stacking the opponent. The OP obviously has a good enough read on the Opponent, that being the case, he should also be aware of how that opponent views him, and just play the hand accordingly.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,751 ✭✭✭BigCityBanker


    I do not believe a player exists to which we could assign a range of only AA to with this type of preflop action. This is a cash game, if he has AA then tuff titty - reload. Ship it..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,537 ✭✭✭Ste05


    I do not believe a player exists to which we could assign a range of only AA to with this type of preflop action. This is a cash game, if he has AA then tuff titty - reload. Ship it..
    Just to be clear and to make sure you're not confusing what I'm saying here. I'm not saying people should be afraid of AA and play scared, but there certainly are times and situations where a particular opponent MAY fold QQ- and AK Pre-Flop to another Raise and only call with AA. In these cases it is effectively a bluff and certainly minimises our expectation, whereas a call and getting it in on the flop has a much higher expectation. At no point am I talking about or alluding to a Fold I'm only talking about maximising expectation and what line maximises our expectation depends on the situation and players involved.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,502 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,751 ✭✭✭BigCityBanker


    Ste05 wrote:
    Just to be clear and to make sure you're not confusing what I'm saying here. I'm not saying people should be afraid of AA and play scared, but there certainly are times and situations where a particular opponent MAY fold QQ- and AK Pre-Flop to another Raise and only call with AA. In these cases it is effectively a bluff and certainly minimises our expectation, whereas a call and getting it in on the flop has a much higher expectation. At no point am I talking about or alluding to a Fold I'm only talking about maximising expectation and what line maximises our expectation depends on the situation and players involved.

    Im with you on this Ste - I was responding to the OP.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 910 ✭✭✭AmarilloFats


    Ste05 wrote:

    If the opponent is as tight as the OP says, and will fold QQ- and AK to a re-raise, then it basically is a bluff, how this remains the case is a bit mad to me, because I'd be re-raising him alot if this was the case, to such a degree that this range would have no option but to increase, or else he'd be just bleeding money to me.
    Bullseye


Advertisement