Starting on the knees in BJJ

Taiwan-Evo

I have come to the conclusion that the starting point in BJJ rolling is a bit pointless. Very rarely do you end up in this position in competition or a real fight. I find I like to ask the other guy what he like to start at or if doesn't say anything just give him the start he wants Unless I specifically want to practice a certain move. I rather just someone pick top or bottom game and pick their starting point (def)whether closed or open guard (att) standing or kneeling

What's your view. I am probably wrong and only very few have agreed with me on this strategy. But haven't heard any convincing arguments.

Any thoughts?

john kavanagh

Taiwan-Evo wrote:

I have come to the conclusion that the starting point in BJJ rolling is a bit pointless. Very rarely do you end up in this position in competition or a real fight. I find I like to ask the other guy what he like to start at or if doesn't say anything just give him the start he wants Unless I specifically want to practice a certain move. I rather just someone pick top or bottom game and pick their starting point (def)whether closed or open guard (att) standing or kneeling

What's your view. I am probably wrong and only very few have agreed with me on this strategy. But haven't heard any convincing arguments.

Any thoughts?

i insist on this in training - i agree that starting on the knees is completely pointless. one should just start in guard and the other in passing position. not only is starting on the knees pointless but also dangerous. i've seen guys badly pop their knees when been driven back. if neither is happy accepting guard then start standing and work for takedown.

hiromatsu22

Same at Three Castles - we start in closed guard whenever we're rolling and there is not enough room to start from standing. Alternatively, if someone wants to work from a disadvantaged position in order work on escapes, then they have that option too.

Nothingcompares

In judo ne-waza, for a long time we started on the knees. If you're in that posiition and someone, especially someone very heavy, lunges at you, you're knees can have a lot of pressure on them. However, I think it's rare for people to do this, and people that don't pull guard immediately when this movement is made at them, are making a mistake.

I agree kneeling against ones partner isn't a particularly realistic start position. However, it's only a start position and after a few moments, it should be transitioned into something more genuine. In judo, more so than in BJJ, you can expect a great variety of starting positions on the ground. Unlike BJJ, the guard and its passing doesn't have great emphasis.

However, when I start rolling with someone I either pull guard or attack them from their open guard. Sometimes if we've been drilling a particular scenario, we'll start from there (half guard, side control, turtle, closed guard).

I don't really like starting in another person's closed guard because I'm not great at passing (and choose to bury my head in the sand and just avoid the scenario ).

HammerHeadGym

Are we talking about starting in a kneeling position (like getting communion) or the one knee on floor, one knee up position? If it's the first one, wouldn't it be really easy to pass guard or am i missing something?

mark.leonard

HammerHeadGym wrote:

Are we talking about starting in a kneeling position (like getting communion) or the one knee on floor, one knee up position? If it's the first one, wouldn't it be really easy to pass guard or am i missing something?

we are talking about both fighters being on their knees, communion style.

Just to thrwo my weight behind the others, we normally roll twice with each partner. The first time one person on their knees (combat base usually) and the other on their bum and then vice versa for the second time.

Taiwan-Evo

HammerHeadGym wrote:

Are we talking about starting in a kneeling position (like getting communion) or the one knee on floor, one knee up position? If it's the first one, wouldn't it be really easy to pass guard or am i missing something?

Like the above poster says. usually on in sitting guard and one more passive .But it really varies o the guy your rolling. Passing can be easy is if the guy is in a praying sitting style with both legs down. But either way sitting guard or what ever. There will rarely be an occasion where you will both be facing off from that position.Whether sitting guard or not. Depending on high the difference of levels of the guys rolling with each other will determine how easy it is to pass from any position.

astfgl

I never start in that "communion" position and always tell other people not to. Personally, I prefer to start in combat base (one knee up, one knee down) and then either pull my opponent into my guard, or swing around his . This way neither of us starts in a position where you know exactly what to expect your opponent to do. (You should always start standing if there's space anyway)

Roper

I remember learning "grappling" years ago and you had to start with your hand in the other guys hand, on one knee and one foot (not even combat base, much more erect) and then someone shouted go (don't hey say go in Karate?) and then you attacked each other like two bulls. Classy.

At KO we start in all positions but I've always tried to start in guard (on amy ass) cos I wanted to get a good guard, and one of these days I'm going to learn how to pass someone elses by always starting standing up!

Liam_B

Again same as above, I wouldnt agree on starting on the Knees. Not only is it dangerous but it limits your movement as well. Usually start from :
One Standing -One sitting (open guard)
One in Guard - One Pulling guard
One in half Guard - One Pulling half guard
Both standing

cheers

HammerHeadGym

I see, thanks for the info.