Magners League

Diamondmaker

Seeing as the last thread got so many backs up in Red I thought I would re phrase the topic.

The ML in my opinion is responsible greatly to the rise of Irish Provincial Rugby. The profile of the game hsa been raised due to fans getting much more opportunity to see their team and other teasm with interantional players.

Since the ML/CL all Irish provinces have seen an increase in their performances and fans expectations.
Munsters eventual win and Leinsters increased and more consistent competitiveness owes a lot to the ML and the increased game time the Provinces get.

If the ML is not taken seriously for short term gain and the League eventually suffers as a whole with regards to quality, Irish teams will find themselves playing week in week out at a lower level than the Eng and French teams once again. Teams who compete ferociously for the domestic prize.
As a whole this cannot be good for Irish rugby and perhaps the Irish and Scots ave most to lose from this scenario. Its imperative that these team keep the standrads high and the competition competitive. Commercially and for the reasons above.

It really has turned into a great competition hopefully it can cointinue from stregth to streght beating off Eng and French opposition!

Nice0ne

Of course the ML has been helped the development of rugby in Ireland, as well as enabling supporters who find it hard to get HC tickets to see their provinces in action.

However there are not too many competitions out there where every single team is in the running for the title or wishes to field a full strenght squad each weekend. Munster choose to rest some players this weekend and you're still going on about it but no mention of the Ospreys?

davyjose

Nice0ne wrote:

no mention of the Ospreys?

The Osprey's were without 14 players. The fact that they chose to rest players on top of this made sense -- they had very little chance of winning against one of the best teams in Europe almost at full strength. This was not quite the case for Munster.

Diamondmaker

Ah jaysus man...

I wrote a new thread with nothing mentioned about Munster and your still jumping up an down about Munster!

No mention of Munster. Pay attention. To address the Ospreys point...

Ospreys are the top end of the table and are competing in 3 competitions! With games in hand in the ML. They have competed all season in ML and are also in SF of the Powergen thingy at the mo. The team that eventually took the field was a lot stronger than that printed in the morning press also FYI. Hooke even coming on... They have not deemed the whole season so far as sacrificial as there placing shows. 3 comp burden and the non luxury the Irsih players have gives them more committments yet they are competing in 3 competitions.

Again ..if you pay attention you will notice that my point is everyone else has more committments than the Irish ........all the Irish, so we have no excuses.

zAbbo

davyjose wrote:

The Osprey's were without 14 players. The fact that they chose to rest players on top of this made sense -- they had very little chance of winning against one of the best teams in Europe almost at full strength. This was not quite the case for Munster.

Ospreys named their team before Leinster, even so Leinster didn't rest anyone.

Just Look at the tries scored

from LeinsterFans (thanks Dave Cahill)

Rob Kearney scores his first
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4160621522197124436

O'Driscoll scores his first try against Ospreys.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5216562563613600261

Hickie scores against the Ospreys
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7251688031563953476

Rob Kearney scores his second to secure the bonus point
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5178308127794691805

Brian O'Driscoll gets his second.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3470456693839069342

Gleeson gets the final try
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-335518298232745414

Thats one hell of a selling point to get people to take an interest in Rugby, there seems a great buzz round Donnybrook as well.

Diamondmaker

zabbo wrote:

Thats one hell of a selling point to get people to take an interest in Rugby, there seems a great buzz round Donnybrook as well.

Gonna be savage Sat whne 25-30k people who would go if it was in Lasdonwe will only be 7-8k real fans!

It will the way it should.:cool:

davyjose

Can't wait myself - was looking at our record against gunners - it isn't good. Played ten, won 2, drawn 1, lost 7

Nice0ne

I'm not jumping up and down about Munster but trying to show that each team can rest players as they see fit. To me you're just trying to show that Leinster are great cause they fielded they're best team, which they have to do because they've a chance to win the ML.

Before you point out that the thread was about the benefits of the ML then you should read all of my post. If you're not open to a reasonable debate or willing to consider other people's opinions why use this forum?

Amazotheamazing

How can Munster compete in the ML? we lose our entire pack and halfbacks for the first few games, and again during the 6n's. No team in NH can afford lose their front 10 players, and keep on winning.

The ML is a great comp, but it comes a long way behind International rugby or the HEC.

Diamondmaker

Nice0ne wrote:

Before you point out that the thread was about the benefits of the ML then you should read all of my post. If you're not open to a reasonable debate or willing to consider other people's opinions why use this forum?

I replied to your very valid Ospreys point. Anything else is getting sucked into an endless and undebatable Munster/Leinster issue which is not the point of the thread at all. On re reading your post anyway, Im not sure of which other point you wished to debate.

Erin Go Brath

The ML is the only viable way to keep professional rugby players in this country that I can think of. So it has to be a good thing really. It benefits all 3 countries involved, as none of the countries has enough population to sustain a professional league in their own right like England and France for example. Would like to see it getting more competitive in the coming years, but wouldnt like to see more teams added.. ie london welsh can take a run and jump imo.

That said, it is only secondary in importance to the Heineken cup. The other downside to the ML is that theres no relegation, so teams dont feel the fear, and also thats theres no huge incentive to win it. If it had a great monetary reward or perhaps qualification for some super cup competition where you take on the winner of the english, french, and S. hemisphere leagues etc in some mini World Club Cup type of thing that would increase the prestige.

davyjose

Well for two years now we've seen the WRU threaten to pull out, in the hope of some deal with the RFU one presumes. but I don't see why. they will be subject to the very same problems:
Niceone made a very good point - all club Rugby is compromised when the Internationals are involved - the AI's and the 6N force teams to lose their best players - Munster and Leinster are hit harder than a lot of other Clubs by this. I don't mean to stir up bad feeling, but I firmly believe Leinster would be CL champs had they had a full team. This does not happen in the Super 14, nor does it happen with the Heineken Cup.
There is no relegation in the ML, nor is there in the Super 14. There IS in the GP. Now correct me if i'm wrong but I believe the former leagues are a lot more entertaining than the latter, have much more competitive Rugby, and are more entertaining. I've read articles where some believe this hinders the English game (forcing teams to play unadventurous 'don't lose at any cost' Rugby).
The ML is in its infancy, it is only in its 6th year. There is a lot of teething problems to be overcome, but given the standard of Rugby created from it (look at what it has done for a hitherto declining Welsh game and anonymous Irish game already), has, all things considered been mind-blowing.
Give it time, it won't happen overnight, but it is on the way to becoming a very, very exciting and important Rugby competition. And someone mentioned a 'Super Cup' of Top 14, GP, super 14 & ML teams - I think this is very possible, WITH the set-up we have now.

zAbbo

davyjose wrote:

This does not happen in the Super 14...

It's happening this year though, or at least All Black players are missing half the season, it being WC year.

davyjose

zabbo wrote:

It's happening this year though, or at least All Black players are missing half the season, it being WC year.

True, but that's a oneoff and personally I think it's a ridiculous decision. "Let's not play competitive Rugby for a year - we're sure to win the WC". Hope it bites them in the ass! And it just might.

zAbbo

davyjose wrote:

True, but that's a oneoff and personally I think it's a ridiculous decision. "Let's not play competitive Rugby for a year - we're sure to win the WC". Hope it bites them in the ass! And it just might.

Yeah, and you can get injured anytime, even just with some contact training, see what happened to best full back in the world - Chris Latham, does his cruciate ligament and is out for 5 months.

davyjose

zabbo wrote:

Yeah, and you can get injured anytime, even just with some contact training, see what happened to best full back in the world - Chris Latham, does his cruciate ligament and is out for 5 months.

Exactly, and there'll be pretty much 5 or six months of not playing Rugby matches for these guys. What is going to happen their bodies when they start the 3N? This is unprecedented in team sports and it's a HUGE risk. NZ have the strength in depth to cover any injuries, but every team that has won it has played through the season.

Went off topic there but it needed to be said.