Scientology

askquestions

Im doing some research on Scientology and would like to get some open, honest information from anyone who has had any contact with the organisation or have had family members or friends involved. I have some concerns and would like to get some feedback from people who have direct experiences.

Many thanks in advance,

aidan24326

Well I'll give you my 2c worth though I do know if it will be any use to you or not. A few years ago (7 or 8), bored one day, I tootled into their offices in Middle Abbey St. for my 'free personality test', having heard overblown stories of their attempts to 'brainwash' and the like, and knowing little of scientology at the time. So I said I'd have a look for myself.

What ensued was basically about 1.5 hours of a guy (some sort of honcho in this country) trying to 'audit' me as a pre-clear, which consisted of him asking me many deep and personal questions particularly in relation to negative experiences in my life, all the skeletons in the closet if you like. Some I refused to answer, and the whole thing ended in an argument with me basically disagreeing with just about everything he said. Though I'm an argumentative fecker anyway it must be said. However he was extremely persistent and there was something about the guy I found a bit creepy, but that's just a personal opinion. There was a woman there also attempting to soften me up.

Anyway, I bought L. Ron Hubbard's book from him at the end, for maybe a fiver or something, and went on my way. Read a couple of chapters of the book and that was enough of that. However they subsequently contacted me by phone and letter many times over the next 18 months I'd say. They were remarkably persistent considering I hadn't shown any particular interest. Pushy is the word I'd use. I would believe reports of people who've said it can be quite difficult to leave scientology once you become immersed in it.

I see them as a sinister money-making machine, with an underlying doctrine so bizarre it makes mainstream religions seem almost reasonable in comparison. L. Ron Hubbard said in the 60's "If you want to get rich start a religion", and that's just what he did.

6th

The Scientology Church in Ireland got seriously in the red a while back and the US had to bail them out. As far as I know there is talk of them pulling the church oout of Ireland ... of course I dont know what that means for those who are Scientologists over here.

6th

If they are still about pop in and get yourself some first hand experience. Also Google is your friend.

Also, look at the links to other threads on Scientology at the bottom of this page.

Nevyn

Apprently being sent to work here is a punishment detail

Dave!

One of these days I'm gonna head in for my personality test! I planned to do it a while back, but didn't bother in the end.

joenailface

where can you get it done, id love to do it for the laugh

Asiaprod

Much to my amazement, there is a Scientology drive currently underway in Tokyo. I wonder how successful it is. I personally have nothing good to say for Scientology and have never taken them seriously as any kind of religion; its a money making personality cult IMO.

askquestions

Thanks all for your comments.

Im concerned as someone close to me (who went in to the Dublin Office initially out of interest) is now attending courses on a regular basis. Everytime they come out of the office they have been sold some other DVD/book/course and my friend won't listen to any of the concerns I have about the minipulation which I can clearly see. There are (like you said) regular phone calls at the most inappropriate times. On Sundays, over Christmas holidays when most people are on their down time relaxing with family and friends - they constantly insist that my friend comes back in for more study. Its getting to the point where our friendship is under severe pressure and I dont know where to turn to try to convince this person of the dangers of any organisation that consume one is this way. Im afraid they have already sucked my friend into their methods.

What should I do?

Dave!

I think you should post a new thread in the Personal Issues forum, explaining the situation and your concerns. It will get more people to see it, and it's more appropriate there too. You'll get more advice really.

Gillo

OP if you are concerned you could try contacting an organistation on Lwr. Abbey St who act as a "support network" for familie's of people who have joined cult's / NRM's. I can't remember the name of them but I think it is INFORM.

Their offices are above Veritas, (it's a big blue front christian bookshop), I've spoken to a guy who works there a number of times and he seemed very helpful.

Have you actually tried just talking to your friend? get his or her's opinions or thoughts on scientology instead of just telling them all the negative sides to them; at least that way they may open up and be more receptive to hearing the more negative aspects.

EDIT: INFORM is some a slightly different organisation, what you want is Dailogue Ireland, here's their website.

Sorry it's been about 10 years since I was in touch with them.

LostinBlanch

Scientology was supposed to have been started as a result of a bet between L Ron Hubbard and Robert Heinlein. Hubbard was a science fiction writer before he set up Scientology.

There is a book about it from a guy called Russell Miller. If you read that you wouldn't go near them with a barge pole. Of course I'd suggest you give that to your friend to read, but it might be too late. One of the first things that any cult tries to do is isolate the subject form friends and family. Have you discussed this with any of his/her family? Gillos idea sounds like a good one too, but they mightn't work without family involvement.

Oh and anyone that wants to go in and do the personality test. It is called the Cambridge test to try and fool gullible into believing that it is in some way linked to Cambridge University. Not linked to it at all, except for the fact that he was in Cambridge when he came up with the idea. It doesn't matter whatever answers you give, you're still going to need extensive "treatment" in order to become a "clear." Not that anyone has ever become a clear AFAIK. Miller writes a great chapter on what happened when the first "clear" was announced and introduced to the public. It's worth reading the book for that alone.

Anyway best of luck with it, I hope it works out best for all involved.

aidan24326

askquestions wrote:

Thanks all for your comments.

Im concerned as someone close to me (who went in to the Dublin Office initially out of interest) is now attending courses on a regular basis. Everytime they come out of the office they have been sold some other DVD/book/course and my friend won't listen to any of the concerns I have about the minipulation which I can clearly see. There are (like you said) regular phone calls at the most inappropriate times. On Sundays, over Christmas holidays when most people are on their down time relaxing with family and friends - they constantly insist that my friend comes back in for more study. Its getting to the point where our friendship is under severe pressure and I dont know where to turn to try to convince this person of the dangers of any organisation that consume one is this way. Im afraid they have already sucked my friend into their methods.

What should I do?

Sounds like they've got their claws into him alright. That is certainly cause for concern. Do show him Miller's book and read it yourself first so you can point out to him the dangers of what he's becoming involved in. Though the scientology people will probably have pre-empted this by warning him to ignore the naysayers, that it's all just lies.

If this is a friend that you care about I would suggest you do whatever you can to prise him free of these bloodsuckers. But in the end if that's the path he chooses for himself there won't be anything you can do, ultimately it's his
life. Do his family know about all this? If so what do they think? I am amazed at this stage that anyone can be foolish enough to get involved with scientology considering what's now known about them.

I only went for my 'free personality test' out of sheer curiosity, with absolutely no intention of letting them get into my head to the extent that I would sign up. But no doubt many others do likewise and still end up in their clutches.

Eglinton

Was interesting to watch. The reporter's heart was in it but he didn't come across very well.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/panorama/6655207.stm

The scientologists are some nuts though. Spying on the BBC. Not the most prudent public relations approach.

Ah South Park, how right you were :-)

karen3212

I saw the bbc show, it seems like the scentology was harrassing the reporter so much he lost it and got really angry. Jeepers, the scientology was seemed completely nuts, constantly arguing with the reporter. They look nuts, also the Governemnt in the Uk are resisting their application for church status as the programme said, charging for their courses and not for the public good excludes them just now.

What shocked me was that they are Narconon, I had no idea that they were. I think I got them mixed up with Narcanon.

Scary, mixing those two up,

Eglinton

karen3212 wrote:

What shocked me was that they are Narconon, I had no idea that they were. I think I got them mixed up with Narcanon.

Scary, mixing those two up,

Yea, I guess it's just another arm of their organisation used for recruiting vulnerable people. You'd probably find that all those people following the reporter were ex-adicts of some sort or otherwise estranged from social life in some way. Those sort of people are very easy to manipulate to do anything an influential person wants.

Gillo

I meant to watch the documentary, don't suppose anyone has some form of digital copy they'd be happy to share...

Out of curosity I went in once or twice to them years ago, and yeah I was impressed with what they had to offer from the dianetics side of things; Scientology was never mentioned although it wasn't hidden in anyway. Suppose luckily I had no money (student at the time) so I couldn't really afford to take it anywhere.

Winters

Having done a lot of research and read up on Scientolgy I can tell you that they really are nothing more than a dangerous cult. If any of you did not watch the BBC Panarama documenty that was on this evening I'd highly reccomend you watch a repeat or one of the copies that is floating around on YouTube etc.

The documentary clearly shows how Scientologists use scare tactics, finding out where the reporter was staying and watching him, following him, finding out who he is interviewing and hijacking his interviews ensuring he cannot do his job. I feel sorry for the reporter as he blatently lost it, but when you watch the footage you can see the stress and near fear that he was undergoing by "followers" of the cult that is Scientology. You can watch an interesting interview with the Panarama editor here and another one here where he explains some of what happened.

There are many resources on the net to people explaining the dangers of Scientology and even information on people who have been intimidated (and not just the BBC reporter, I have had friends harrised by them) and even harmed/murdered by the church. I shall admit they do some good for their local community, however many volunitary organisations do the same and do not charge people for bring apart of their group.

You might find some useful and quite shocking information here, here and here. Many sites which have had information, blog posts or videos on them that show Scientology in any bad light have been edited or had their hosting shut down, removed or sued. It is scary indeed.

karen3212

I wonder if this discussion will disappear.

After I posted originally on this topic, with my terrible grammar and spelling, the boards.ie site shut down for maintainence(spelling), I thought it was something to do with the scientoligists, spooky... but I was just being foolish

Dirk Gently

aidan24326 wrote:

Well I'll give you my 2c worth though I do know if it will be any use to you or not. A few years ago (7 or 8), bored one day, I tootled into their offices in Middle Abbey St. for my 'free personality test', having heard overblown stories of their attempts to 'brainwash' and the like, and knowing little of scientology at the time. So I said I'd have a look for myself.

What ensued was basically about 1.5 hours of a guy (some sort of honcho in this country) trying to 'audit' me as a pre-clear, which consisted of him asking me many deep and personal questions particularly in relation to negative experiences in my life, all the skeletons in the closet if you like. Some I refused to answer, and the whole thing ended in an argument with me basically disagreeing with just about everything he said. Though I'm an argumentative fecker anyway it must be said. However he was extremely persistent and there was something about the guy I found a bit creepy, but that's just a personal opinion. There was a woman there also attempting to soften me up.

Anyway, I bought L. Ron Hubbard's book from him at the end, for maybe a fiver or something, and went on my way. Read a couple of chapters of the book and that was enough of that. However they subsequently contacted me by phone and letter many times over the next 18 months I'd say. They were remarkably persistent considering I hadn't shown any particular interest. Pushy is the word I'd use. I would believe reports of people who've said it can be quite difficult to leave scientology once you become immersed in it.

Snap. Identical to my story.

I foolishly did the same thing. Went in for their personality test cos I was bored and already curious about the cult. (Wondering how anyone could allow themselves to be brain washed). Even more foolishly gave them my proper details. That was about 5 years ago and I still get junk mail from them. The thing that really freaked me out was that I was out of work for a few months about a year ago and during that time I received 4 letters from them offering me "voluntary office work" in the abbey street centre. Timing of the letters made me a bit paranoid to say the least.

While I was in there doing the test I saw other poor fools who had been taken in by it, one of them a fourth year engineering student. He was half way ( a few weeks into) through a course they do in there and was completely brain washed. It was at that point that the penny dropped and I decided to walk out. Had a hard time leaving and was only short of decking the little nerdy fella cos he was blocking me from exiting the building. They're proper extremist nuts although I was kind of turned on by the Scientology girlie in there, probably because she was proper extremist nuts.

Did you get to see the video Aidan? The nerdy fella asked me what I thought of it and me still in piss take mode said it reminded me of the simpsons episode where they joined the cult. The look on his face was priceless. He didn't really see the funny side of it.

Anyone thinking of checking them out make sure you don't give them any real contact details. Make up a false address and phone number and make sure to kick that little fella in the nuts before you leave. One of my biggest regrets in life is not kicking that chap in the nuts

Gillo

Winters wrote:

There are many resources on the net to people explaining the dangers of Scientology and even information on people who have been intimidated (and not just the BBC reporter, I have had friends harrised by them) and even harmed/murdered by the church.

Don't suppose you have these sources? Are they reliable?

Nevyn

Ah gillo he linked to them in his post if you run your mouse over the words 'here' you will see the hyperlinks.

As for the tatic of taking picures well we have privacy laws about that here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLZJBdvqAv8

The panarma show which deal with this is online http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/panorama/default.stm

death1234567

clown bag wrote:

The nerdy fella asked me what I thought of it and me still in piss take mode said it reminded me of the simpsons episode where they joined the cult.

"The leader is good the leader is great, we surrender our will as of this date".

Nevyn

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsa/n5ctrl/tvseq/od/bbc1/nb/wm/video/pan_od_nb.asx
is the feed link for those that that want to watch it you can just copy it into what ever player you choose.

Winters

gillo wrote:

Don't suppose you have these sources? Are they reliable?

In addition to the links and information in my previous post take a look into the lives of pople like Lisa McPherson who died in the hands of Scientology.

Scientologist stong stance against psychology and psycharists leads them to stand firmly against medication such as anti-depressents and bipolar etc. They see psycharists as being one of the main reason behind the Nazi genocide/atrocitys and other events (incl. Xenu I believe). They try and take people off these important medications and put them on their own mix if "Vitamins and exercise". To anyone this is clearly an absurd and dangerous system and harming the lives of not only those people but also others around them.

And dont forget a quick look at: http://theunfunnytruth.ytmnd.com/

Winters

Also, if you have an hour or so to spare, Id reccomend this great french documentry. It is in english.

philologos

The BBC Panorama documentary was pretty creepy.