The "Alternative" Government in trouble already

Nuttzz

With Ahern ready to cut a deal with Labour and a number of senior figure not ruling it out and Kenny getting flack from Deasy and now English is the FG/Labour alternative already floundering. When Kennys own TDs give him flack before a vote is cast it must cast doubts in the mind of the voters.

I'll nail my colours to the mast and say i'm quite happy to see the FF/PD's returned but really see an FF/Lab next government however all will hinge on Labours performanace

LostinBlanch

I don't think that this is implodingat all. It looks like Deasy had a rush of blood to the head and made his grab for the headlines. Cue McDowells mouthpiece Sam Smyth sniffing around other FG TDs trying to find any more dirt. Damien English gives what in my view is a fairly innocuous interview and surprise it is spun as FG in crisis. But then again FG need to excercise better media control I think.

Of course Bertie is looking to do a deal, I firmly believe he'd do a deal with the Devil if it meant him staying in power. Ditto the PDs now lifting their skirts in FGs direction again.

As for nailing colours to the mast, I'd like a government that will sort out the mess that has been getting worse for the last 10 years or so. You know little things like no adequate public transport system, an imploding health system, proper financial control of public projects - no more writing estimates on the back of a fag packet and then washing hands of it when the **** hits the fan (Port tunnel anyone?), cack handed policies like decentralisation of entire government departments rather than sections of departments, increasing stealth taxes, government appointed regulators that act in (virtual) monopolies interests over the consumers (ESB, Bord Gais, Eircon holding up the proper rollout of broadband nationwide). I didn't realise exactly what FF really mean when they said a lot done a lot more to do!

The_Minister

LostinBlanch wrote:

Ditto the PDs now lifting their skirts in FGs direction again.

I've said this before on boards, and I'll say it again. The PDs are much closer to Fine Gael than Fianna Fail. Most of its members would love to go in with FG. McDowell used to be in FG.

Colonel Sanders

LostinBlanch wrote:

I don't think that this is implodingat all. It looks like Deasy had a rush of blood to the head and made his grab for the headlines. Cue McDowells mouthpiece Sam Smyth sniffing around other FG TDs trying to find any more dirt. Damien English gives what in my view is a fairly innocuous interview and surprise it is spun as FG in crisis. But then again FG need to excercise better media control I think.

Of course Bertie is looking to do a deal, I firmly believe he'd do a deal with the Devil if it meant him staying in power. Ditto the PDs now lifting their skirts in FGs direction again.

As for nailing colours to the mast, I'd like a government that will sort out the mess that has been getting worse for the last 10 years or so. You know little things like no adequate public transport system, an imploding health system, proper financial control of public projects - no more writing estimates on the back of a fag packet and then washing hands of it when the **** hits the fan (Port tunnel anyone?), cack handed policies like decentralisation of entire government departments rather than sections of departments, increasing stealth taxes, government appointed regulators that act in (virtual) monopolies interests over the consumers (ESB, Bord Gais, Eircon holding up the proper rollout of broadband nationwide). I didn't realise exactly what FF really mean when they said a lot done a lot more to do!

Hear hear!

LostinBlanch

LostinBlanch wrote:

I don't think that this is implodingat all.

I think it is. FG backbenchers are realising that they have just stalled on the upward trends, the most likely outcome of the next election will see Labour and FF having to cobble some Government together and the whole 'everyone who hates FF' Coalition might not happen after all. Didn't expect them to rush for the lifeboats just yet, but on the other hand I guess Deasy is keeping an eye on the long term...

seamus

Deasy is an accidental loudmouth malcontent TD like Jackie Healy Rae. I'm not a FG fan at all, but it sounds like Deasy just has no control over his own sense of importance, and absolutely no political head on his shoulders. Even if he did get elected to the head of the party, he would be head of a party in tatters because of what he caused. A bit like nuking the **** out of a foreign country so you can go in and claim it.

Damien English was on the radio defending himself this morning. His comments were basically in relation to the fact that FG's consitution requires the leadership to go up for re-election if the party fails to get into Government. They weren't supporting Deasy's calls for Kenny to step down.

LostinBlanch

I heard on Newstalk this morning that Sam Smyth rang up English who was out of the country and answered what he thought was an innocent question, he didn't know anything about Deasy's comments beforehand.

But then again that's Sam Smyth for you, IMHO everything he writes has to be read through the prism of the fact that he is McDowells drinking buddy and is heavily embedded with the current administration. Of course these are my views but I would much prefer all journos to let their own political views be known and allow the public to make up their own minds. Of course the cynic in me thinks that this'll never happen.

is_that_so

Much of this story has been run from the same stable as Sam Smyth - The Irish Independent. Still while FG are importing US gurus you would think they'd find one to teach them how to maintain discipline. FF for all their faults have very much mastered this. Damien English is just guilty of naivety. The other gentleman in this story has been well-summed up already. This is the problem with media in the modern age. Radio and TV can stick microphones where microphones shouldn't go and print media is always looking for ways to keep up.

"Exclusively revealed! Tomorrow's weather forecast" :rolleyes:

michaelcollins7

Have you seen FG's new billboard?

billboard.jpg

MontgomeryClift

I'm guessing that was supposed to be funny.

Voipjunkie

My 2 cents

Great move by FG even if it was not meant.

It works on so many levels

FG are made relevant where until this week they were at serious risk of being completely ignored as the election became a FF and PD or FF and Lab or maybe even FF and Green or the outside bet of FF and SF.

Now at least FG are on the radio and in the Papers on the TV you cant get away from them FGers are becoming household names again like English Deasy Higgins Keogh and Ring I would have been hard pressed to name 5 FGers last week.

Then there is the sympathy vote for Enda as he is "attacked" by this young fella ( if he could get on 6one and start crying he might be the next Taoiseach.)

I expect a bounce for FG in the next opinion polls as they say there is no such thing as bad publicity.
what is worse is no publicity and FG have had that for years.

InFront

I wouldn't agree with that. It didn't work for Noonan last time around either, this is definitely not a deliberate move on behalf of FG! Before the public had the votes cast in 2002, FGers were already demanding Michael "dream ticket" Noonan's head, and this has the same air about it imo. The deputies are starting to panic about the uphill struggle.
They look at the polls, and guess what, the new "dream ticket" of FG and Labour isn't catching the public's imagination.
They're looking at guys like Richard Bruton, who was recently discussed here, and imagining what they could have in a leader and realsiing why Kenny is just simply not going to be Taoiseach own his own batting. As a FG supporter and YFG member, I have always, and am still of the opinion, that Kenny is Foreign Affairs Material. Too late, we're stuck with him, there's no use in panicking when you're already shot.

ballooba

InFront wrote:

Too late, we're stuck with him, there's no use in panicking when you're already shot.

Nice attitude. :rolleyes:

I was also thinking that this publicity could work out well. These candidates may have raised there profiles in their constituency and shown a bit of balls. I doubt constituents wouldn't have heard of Michael Ring before though. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Ring

Deasy deserves a kick in the arse for himself. Looks like he got a shot across his bow this evening anyway in the form of a letter from Enda. English has already crawled back into his box, though it's doubtful if he ever was out of it.

Dontico

i'm not sure exactly what Deasy said or what Kenny said in the letter. but i do like FG's attitude towards party discipline. like the way they reacted when the FG cllr made a comment of drink driving recently. thier strictness could only make them look better. shows they at least have some self control, unlike some parties......

just wondering who the boards.ie/politics FG supporters are. Me and InFront, who else?

Voipjunkie

Voipjunkie wrote:

Now at least FG are on the radio and in the Papers on the TV you cant get away from them FGers are becoming household names again like English Deasy Higgins Keogh and Ring I would have been hard pressed to name 5 FGers last week.

If it needed a stunt like this for English Deasy Higgins Keogh and Ring to get recognised by their own constituents then they are in serious trouble. Somehow I can't see questioning the leadership as an obvious PR move...unless they were really desparate and thought it was a last roll of the dice, and somehow I doubt things are that bad...

ballooba

My family home is in Meath. Damien English is already quite well know in his constituency for a young TD. He has spoken quite well any time I've heard him.

I especially like when he asked Bertie how hoe got to the airport when he travelled to the function in Manchester. Bertie's didn't anwser him, but the answer obviously would be in the ministerial car.

I believe English was led up the garden path by McDowell's buddy Sam Smyth on this one. Experience might have saved him from this.

Incidentally, Sam Smyth is still trying to keep this non-story going on the front of the Indo* today.

*(Don't worry I didn't buy it, just saw it in a restaurant)

DMC

ballooba wrote:

English has already crawled back into his box, though it's doubtful if he ever was out of it.

English might have clarified his comments to Sam Smyth on Morning Ireland and LMFM yesterday, but I do sense there is no love lost between him and Kenny right now, after the selection convention last month in Meath West, where with English the sitting TD, HQ imposed Graham Geraghty without a vote.

ballooba

DMC wrote:

English might have clarified his comments to Sam Smyth on Morning Ireland and LMFM yesterday, but I do sense there is no love lost between him and Kenny right now, after the selection convention last month in Meath West, where with English the sitting TD, HQ imposed Graham Geraghty without a vote.

Whatever he thinks/feels about that is fine as long as he keeps it to himself. You have to pipe down and be a team player once in a while.

I think there is a good chance of Geraghty getting in with English. Check out Higgins' campaign page on the other hand. English may feel it's a risky strategy to run three candidates in the constituency but HQ obviously want two seats there.

Voipjunkie

Deleted User wrote:

If it needed a stunt like this for English Deasy Higgins Keogh and Ring to get recognised by their own constituents then they are in serious trouble. Somehow I can't see questioning the leadership as an obvious PR move...unless they were really desparate and thought it was a last roll of the dice, and somehow I doubt things are that bad...

I think Bertie and the Shinners have shown them that there is no such thing as bad publicity the only thing worse than bad publicity is being ignored.

I don't think it was a stunt no more than Bertie taking payments was a stunt but FG has got more headlines and airplay than any agreement with Rabbite or policy launch.

We shall see but my guess is at least a 2% bounce in the next poll.

Voipjunkie

Voipjunkie wrote:

I don't think it was a stunt no more than Bertie taking payments was a stunt but FG has got more headlines and airplay than any agreement with Rabbite or policy launch.

But the whole Bertie story was certainly not something planned by FF, he had to respond to a serious allegation made against him. And clearly the nature of his response got him out of the hole - though I still cannot fathom how or why...

FG may well go up, but would be surprised if anyone said they were not going to vote for them until Deasy challenged Kenny and that changed their minds.

DMC

Deleted User wrote:

FG may well go up, but would be surprised if anyone said they were not going to vote for them until Deasy challenged Kenny and that changed their minds.

Agree there, what Deasy has said is just confirming what a lot of people out there think, that Kenny is not Taoiseach material, they can't stand Kenny.

FG, and in this case it was Michael Ring on the News at One on Friday, he put a lot of focus on the results of Euro and Local elections of 2004 and indication of where FG are going. That's 3 years ago. Its worth remembering that Govt's rarely win mid-term bye-elections, the Euro elections are not truely driven by the leader of the party, in that the head of the party is not going to be elected in that election, and there was an element of give FF a bloody nose. FF were unpopular at the time, but the same cannot be said right now, if the polls hold weight.

By no means that covers all the issues that caused the bump for FG in 2004, but they have not learned the lessons of John Deasy's father, Austin, who challenged John Bruton, before seeing that Bruton was mortally wounded, Noonan and Michell went in to make sure Bruton was gone.

Deasy is right, but it was the wrong time. Weather or not the polls will agree with that, we shall see. But all I see is a battered FG leader 5 months from an election, and the public will sense that. And I've little doubt Labour and their supporters do too.

ballooba

DMC wrote:

Agree there, what Deasy has said is just confirming what a lot of people out there think, that Kenny is not Taoiseach material, they can't stand Kenny.

That's total BS, the only thing motivating Deasy is his own personal contempt for Kenny. He doesn't give a toss about the good of the party and whether or not Enda would make a good Taoiseach. Deasy is sore because he got kicked off the front bench and because HQ is running three candidates in his constituency. It's as simpe as that.

DMC wrote:

Deasy is right, but it was the wrong time. Weather or not the polls will agree with that, we shall see. But all I see is a battered FG leader 5 months from an election, and the public will sense that. And I've little doubt Labour and their supporters do too.

Enda Kenny is hardly 'battered' by the words of one disgruntled back bencher.

DMC

ballooba wrote:

That's total BS, the only thing motivating Deasy is his own personal contempt for Kenny. He doesn't give a toss about the good of the party and whether or not Enda would make a good Taoiseach. Deasy is sore because he got kicked off the front bench and because HQ is running three candidates in his constituency. It's as simpe as that.

There's no smoke without fire. Deasy didn't light the fire, but he threw a gallon can of petrol on it.

People have argued that Enda Kenny was soft on Bertie in September/October, that Labour are now uncomfortable with supporting Kenny as a future Taoiseach. I'm sure once Deasy made space in his head when he stopped for a second thinking how brilliant he is, and noticed what was going on around him, that there are quite a few FG'er massively peeved with what HQ is doing.

Deasy has an ego the size of Waterford, that is for sure, and has his own agenda going. It's a solo run (that almost ensnared English, though he appears to have wriggled out of it) But he saw other FG'ers who are equally unhappy with the way FG are planning for the election. He's arguing that if they lose, its the leaderships fault and he wants the job. He phrased it horrendously badly, but strip away the ego from the statement and underneath there is nervousness.

ballooba wrote:

Enda Kenny is hardly 'battered' by the words of one disgruntled back bencher.

Judging by the papers this weekend, you'd thing he's taken quite a few blows.

ballooba

DMC wrote:

There's no smoke without fire. Deasy didn't light the fire, but he threw a gallon can of petrol on it.

Deasy started the fire. He should have kept his concerns to himself.

DMC wrote:

I'm sure once Deasy made space in his head when he stopped for a second thinking how brilliant he is, and noticed what was going on around him, that there are quite a few FG'er massively peeved with what HQ is doing.

They might be peeved, but they know what the strategy is and they are getting behind their leader. Fianna Gael need to double their numbers in all these constituencies, so of course they are going to run candidates where conventional thinking would suggest there is no seat for them. Otherwise, what's the point.

DMC wrote:

He's arguing that if they lose, its the leaderships fault and he wants the job. He phrased it horrendously badly, but strip away the ego from the statement and underneath there is nervousness.

Of course it will be their fault if they lose. That is however an issue that should be left until after the election. He's definitely putting the cart before the horse.

DMC wrote:

Judging by the papers this weekend, you'd thing he's taken quite a few blows.

Only the Sindo would try to give that impression from what I can see. They can hardly be impartial about Fine Gael when they have Mickey D's buddy Sam Smyth writing for them. They have had it in for Fine Gael ever since they failed to secure the mobile phone licence from the Rainbow Government

Interesting that the Sindo is so desperate to bash FG that they have an article on Kenny by that unrivalled expert on all things political, Brendan O'Connor. :rolleyes:

DMC

ballooba wrote:

Deasy started the fire. He should have kept his concerns to himself.

The Meath West selection convention was testament to the running of the show from HQ. No vote, selected "celebrity" Graham Geraghty who didn't cover himself in glory on Morning Ireland afterwards. There was smoke beforehand.

Meath Chronicle wrote:

There was much surprise when the name of the former Meath football captain, Graham Geraghty, was linked to Fine Gael and an election bid in Meath West. Grassroots members of the party and long-standing public representatives were not happy with the fact that a parachute candidate was about to be landed on them, and let their feelings be known. But, without a vote, the footballer was included on a three-man party ticket that includes Colr Peter Higgins and Deputy Damien English, at the FGconvention in Athboy. Watch out for Graham canvassing at a doorstep near you as the 2007 general election looms ever nearer.

http://www.unison.ie/meath_chronicle/stories.php3?ca=38&si=1746847&issue_id=15044

ballooba wrote:

They might be peeved, but they know what the strategy is and they are getting behind their leader. Fianna Gael need to double their numbers in all these constituencies, so of course they are going to run candidates where conventional thinking would suggest there is no seat for them. Otherwise, what's the point.

I see what's happening... The FG'ers are all saying that this is a solo run by John Deasy, to cast him adrift from the rest of the party, to ostracise him to completely and row in behind Enda Kenny in a show of complete party unity ahead of the election.

No dissent to be shown ahead of the election.

So that will mean that party members when canvassing, must go with what HQ do and say. And that's fine. No issue there. It's how it should be at this stage of a campaign. But because it has happened, people are going to talk about it, and despite all the best efforts, the Govt supporters are going to make hay. Remember it was Deasy who spoke first to RTÉ, Sam Smyth and co just stirred the pot for a few days.

If FG don't lead the next government, there will be a lot of blood spilt.

ballooba wrote:

Only the Sindo would try to give that impression from what I can see. They can hardly be impartial about Fine Gael when they have Mickey D's buddy Sam Smyth writing for them. They have had it in for Fine Gael ever since they failed to secure the mobile phone licence from the Rainbow Government

Interesting that the Sindo is so desperate to bash FG that they have an article on Kenny by that unrivalled expert on all things political, Brendan O'Connor. :rolleyes:

LOL then at the Daily "Irish" Mail for trying to stand up for Deasy

At least both of our "quality" newspapers are trying, to different degrees of success, to shaft either FG or FF before the next election. This will continue to be fought out on Page 1 and the editorials for months to come.

Something tells me the press offices of the parties are going to be busier than normal for the next while.

John_C

Deleted User wrote:

FG may well go up, but would be surprised if anyone said they were not going to vote for them until Deasy challenged Kenny and that changed their minds.

Enda has been faced with an unexpected problem. FG will get a boost if Enda handles it well. While he has the headlines this week he has the oppertunity to show leadership and act in a Taoiseach-like manner. I don't follow politics as closely as some here might but I've not yet heard Enda comment on this. I think that's a mistake on his part. If he hides away and waits for this to blow over it'll do him harm. If he tackles it head on and reaches some successful outcome he'll get a boost from it.

Sometimes I think that politicians and journalists underestimate the public's intellegance. Billboard campaigns, soft focus interviews and obviously biased articles won't convince people of anything. People will see Enda as a good leader if he actually shows good leadership. He's been (unexpectedly) handed the oppertunity this week and hopefully he'll take it.

ballooba

DMC wrote:

But because it has happened, people are going to talk about it, and despite all the best efforts, the Govt supporters are going to make hay. Remember it was Deasy who spoke first to RTÉ, Sam Smyth and co just stirred the pot for a few days.

FF/PD are trying to make out that FG are having a big bust up over this. Which simply is not true. The strategies being employed by FG may seem risky to some but high risk often reaps high reward. The startegy cannot be changed this close to the election.

Lucky for FF/PD Deasy's little episode directed attention away from the FG ad campaign. That was a bit of a blow to FG given the amount of resources pumped into it.

McDowell seemed to contradict Parlon on the front page of the Tribune today. There could be a little bit of a tiff there too. I don't think the PDs will fare to well in this election, even Mickey D is showing poorly in the latest FF figures for DSE.

DMC wrote:

LOL then at the Daily "Irish" Mail for trying to stand up for Deasy

Yes, another quality publication.

Proud to say I have never bought it in my life.

ballooba

John_C wrote:

Sometimes I think that politicians and journalists underestimate the public's intellegance. Billboard campaigns, soft focus interviews and obviously biased articles won't convince people of anything. People will see Enda as a good leader if he actually shows good leadership. He's been (unexpectedly) handed the oppertunity this week and hopefully he'll take it.

The FG internal memo published in the Sindo today seemed to suggest that the billboard campaign was the beginnings of a knock them down and build it back up affair.

My initial instincts wrt deasy would have been to ignore him. The story gathered momentum however and he had to be dealt with. Enda tried the softly softly approach on Friday with the letter. Deasy still hasn't piped down, it will be interesting to see if the party whip is withdrawn next week. We might be seeing Deasy running as an independent, which is fine because he's never going to back a FF government.